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  • Peace deal non-negotiable?

    I asked an Israeli acquaintance why the Jews and Arabs don't simply sit down together and agree on a peace deal once and for all, but he replied that the Palestinians and the muslim world in general CAN'T be negotiated with because the only thing they want is the total and utter destruction of all Jews.
    Is that an accurate assessment?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
    I asked an Israeli acquaintance why the Jews and Arabs don't simply sit down together and agree on a peace deal once and for all, but he replied that the Palestinians and the muslim world in general CAN'T be negotiated with because the only thing they want is the total and utter destruction of all Jews.
    Is that an accurate assessment?
    If he asks the right kind of Palestinian and/or Muslim, yes obviously. Works the same with Israelis.

    Comment


    • #3
      Firstly what Arabs are we talking about? there are dozens of Arab countries.

      Assuming you mean the Palestinians there are 2 major problems:

      1. There are too many fractions (just off the top of my mind- Fatah, Hamas, Az A Din El Qasam, Regiments of El Aqza, Islamic Jihad) all say they won't accept any agreement between Israel and any of the other factions. all have different agendas, methods, leaders and goals.

      2. Assuming we contact the major movements, the Palestinians have a very interesting technique for negotiations, they almost get to the point of signing the agreement then break away on some silly excuse, then the next time they site down to talk, the last almost signed agreement becomes the base for negotiations, that's how they squeeze more and more every turn around.

      Israel is ready to sit down and talk anytime so long as it's open negotiations with no preliminary conditions, the Palestinians agree to negotiate only with said terms, which are currently set to what Israel is willing to accept only as a worst case scenario full agreement.

      Comment


      • #4
        The Arabs and the Israelis can never have lasting peace, it is impossible. The orthodox Jews must rebuild Solomon’s temple at the original site to resume sacrifices to God, and the Arabs just happen to have built the Temple mount on the exact same piece of land.
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount
        Any treaty signed by the Arabs is only meant as a temporary (to them) solution until they are strong enough to attack. If they can offer peace for some land they will do it, and then when strong enough, they will break the treaty. We have seen this happen over and over since 1948.
        They must destroy Israel (and most of them don’t pretend otherwise). Just google some of the speeches from Ahmadinejad to see what I mean.
        The Jews and the Arabs claim the same land, have opposing religions, and have been at each other’s throats since Isaac and Ishmael in the Bible.

        The western mind thinks “why can’t they just sit down and talk?”, but nothing lasting will ever come of talk. Islamists are brought up from birth being taught that the Jews are the enemy, and their Quran tells them that all non believers must be killed.
        Really, how can you negotiate with someone who thinks 70 virgins are waiting for him if he kills you? You can’t.

        Comment


        • #5
          Yes!!!

          Simple enough. Maybe not a happy conclusion, but it's certainly the obvious one.

          Too bad our morons at the State Dept. can never accept it.
          Save America!! Impeach Obama!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dave123 View Post
            The Arabs and the Israelis can never have lasting peace, it is impossible. The orthodox Jews must rebuild Solomon’s temple at the original site to resume sacrifices to God, and the Arabs just happen to have built the Temple mount on the exact same piece of land.
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount
            Any treaty signed by the Arabs is only meant as a temporary (to them) solution until they are strong enough to attack. If they can offer peace for some land they will do it, and then when strong enough, they will break the treaty. We have seen this happen over and over since 1948.
            They must destroy Israel (and most of them don’t pretend otherwise). Just google some of the speeches from Ahmadinejad to see what I mean.
            The Jews and the Arabs claim the same land, have opposing religions, and have been at each other’s throats since Isaac and Ishmael in the Bible.

            The western mind thinks “why can’t they just sit down and talk?”, but nothing lasting will ever come of talk. Islamists are brought up from birth being taught that the Jews are the enemy, and their Quran tells them that all non believers must be killed.
            Really, how can you negotiate with someone who thinks 70 virgins are waiting for him if he kills you? You can’t.


            - Jewish sacrifices? you should know that is frowned upon.

            - Lasting treaties? Can you list treaties between any two nations that lasted beyond their immediat usefulness?

            - How many treaties have been broken since 1948 (only two have been signed).

            kelt

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kelt06 View Post
              - Jewish sacrifices? you should know that is frowned upon.

              - Lasting treaties? Can you list treaties between any two nations that lasted beyond their immediat usefulness?

              - How many treaties have been broken since 1948 (only two have been signed).

              kelt


              Jewish Sacrifice is required by Biblical old testament law, and it must be in the rebuilt temple.
              Point taken concerning treaties and the fact that they are broken once no longer useful for a signee. I’m saying that no treaty that allows the continued existence of Israel is ultimately useful to the Arab nations, and therefore will be quickly broken. In simple words; for Israel, any treaty is a waste of time and whatever they give up to get it is ultimately traded for nothing.
              Ok, only 2 "treaties" have been signed, poor choice of words. I speak of the relations between the Arabs and the Jews that constantly go something like this:
              Palestinians promise peace for land, or other concessions. Israel gives back land taken during the war, or other concessions.
              Palestinians continue attacks.

              Comment


              • #8
                The muslims want EVERY square inch of Israel!

                That area has changed hands over and over since the death of mohammad, and in the eyes of the muslim it will FOREVER be muslim. It is the same with Spain, forever muslim.Whoever 'owns' a land before their conquest is of no interest or consequence.

                Yes, they will accept any concession the Israelis are silly enough to give them, but that is just one more step to driving them into the sea.

                Israel will have to defend herself forever, or permanently remove the threat!



                John.
                The PLO claims ALL of Israel!!! There will and can NEVER be a "2 State solution".

                Comment


                • #9
                  Beyond the usual Islamic chauvinism, Muhammad himself had a special hatred of Jews. Yes they were People of the Book, but when his Jewish hosts in Yatrib (now Medina) stopped doing what he wanted, he had them dig a trench and lopped the heads off at least the Jewish males, the bodies falling in the trench.

                  Also, in the hadiths there is a saying: The end times will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and win against them. (this is the part you google to verify) And the rocks and the trees will cry out "O Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill them." Except the Jew tree.

                  Now aside from the scary fact that the Islamic apocalyptic narrative is like the Christian one, only the other side wins, the Muslims do believe that when their Madhi, who bears a strong resemblance to the Anti-Christ, they will exterminate ALL people who refuse to convert. Islam is a fing evil religion, and I will say it again. The Muslims are particularly stupid Nazis and to them we are all Slavs. That's why Hitler lamented the battle of Tours, wishing the Germans had embraced a 'warriors' religion instead of tepid, love thy neighbor Christianity. There is no possibility of peace with Islam while a single Muslim breathes. It's not the people, it's not the politics, its the evil, evil faith they follow. Christianize, hell Voodooize the Middle East and peace will come easy. Not that that's gonna happen.
                  How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
                  275. Because that's how many shells there are in the Maus. Then it could probably crush some more until it ran out of gas. - Surfinbird

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dave123 View Post
                    ....The Arabs and the Israelis can never have lasting peace, it is impossible.....their Quran tells them that all non believers must be killed....
                    Yes the Quran is a major stumbling block because no 'good muslim' can disregard verses like these-
                    [17.33] "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause, and whoever is slain unjustly.."

                    [5.82] "Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe to be the Jews.."

                    [5.51] "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them.."

                    [9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.."

                    As the Quran incites racial hatred and violence, surely there must be laws in the west banning the sale of such books?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Golani View Post
                      ..Israel is ready to sit down and talk anytime..
                      As a matter of interest, what sort of deal would the Israeli government and people be willing to accept?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
                        As a matter of interest, what sort of deal would the Israeli government and people be willing to accept?
                        Good question.
                        "We have no white flag."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
                          Yes the Quran is a major stumbling block because no 'good muslim' can disregard verses like these-
                          [17.33] "And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause, and whoever is slain unjustly.."

                          [5.82] "Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe to be the Jews.."

                          [5.51] "O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them.."

                          [9.123] "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.."

                          As the Quran incites racial hatred and violence, surely there must be laws in the west banning the sale of such books?
                          Looks like a direct translation of similar instructions wriitten in the Bible!

                          Is the Bible to be banned too?, it instruct believers to kill the gays, the non believers, the adulterers.......

                          kelt

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by kelt06 View Post
                            Looks like a direct translation of similar instructions wriitten in the Bible!
                            Is the Bible to be banned too?, it instruct believers to kill the gays, the non believers, the adulterers...
                            I knew somebody would say that!
                            The fact is, Jesus trashed the harsh Old Testament and gave us the updated enlightened New Testament.
                            If God wanted us to keep the Old, he wouldn't have sent Jesus to give us the New..
                            As for the Koran, it was never updated and remains as cruel now as it always was, spot the difference?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Poor Old Spike View Post
                              I knew somebody would say that!
                              The fact is, Jesus trashed the harsh Old Testament and gave us the updated enlightened New Testament.
                              If God wanted us to keep the Old, he wouldn't have sent Jesus to give us the New..
                              As for the Koran, it was never updated and remains as cruel now as it always was, spot the difference?
                              Why don't you tell that to the the Jews? they go by the Old testament, it was not updated by four or five time as much as the Quoran, should it be banned in priority?

                              kelt

                              Comment

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