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  • #46
    Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
    What can defeat the new Russian air defense systems? Is there a weapon/electronic countermeasure extant?
    An F35?
    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
      Drones are now involved... allowing fx a different kind of relative deniability.

      Some are already discussing if this means a significant shift in the usefulness of airpower, and for all these increasingly expensive fast jets.
      I imagine those big jets still have an edge. What drones can go as high in the air as a stealth bomber?

      There’s also the visual intimidation affect of a powerful jet or bomber compared to a smaller drone
      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

      George S Patton

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      • #48
        I think the attack was launched from SW Iran. Iran is close enough to Gulf Oil Fields to launch cruise missile strikes and could infiltrate people to launch mini drones. The flip side is Iran has a lot of oil installations on the coast and right offshore. If SA takes out Kharg Island the Iranis will be hurting. If they also hit Khoramshah, it will be a bigger hurt. To retaliate the Iranis would have to go through Southern Iraq and Kuwait to hit the SA oil fields. Would Iraq allow them passage? How long would it take US Air Power to relocate? It would take a major amount of US Infantry to defend SA. They could have to activate the National Guard. Are there enough deployable ships in the Navy? With the state of training in the Navy I am leery of them trying to go through such narrow sea lanes.

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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        • #49
          Let China handle it. They want to be major players and they are the largest users of SA oil.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

            I imagine those big jets still have an edge. What drones can go as high in the air as a stealth bomber?

            There’s also the visual intimidation affect of a powerful jet or bomber compared to a smaller drone
            This cost only a fraction. In cost-effectiveness terms it's potentially a massive leveling of the playing field. When you don't need a massive stealth bomber to blow things up in a cheap and cheerful manner, all kinds of not states but other organisations as well can get into it.

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            • #51
              These sort of things are becoming quite popular even for non-obvious targets, I imagine soon most large city LE will have them in their inventory ?

              https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-t...-technologies/
              High Admiral Snowy, Commander In Chief of the Naval Forces of The Phoenix Confederation.

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              • #52
                Any well experienced skeet or clays shooter has the same technology.
                ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                IN MARE IN COELO

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                • #53
                  I imagine that with the world deeply concerned about drone attacks now there will be a lot of focus on the latest drone attack on civilians yesterday... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...KBN1W40NW?il=0

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mark McShane View Post
                    I imagine that with the world deeply concerned about drone attacks now there will be a lot of focus on the latest drone attack on civilians yesterday... https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...KBN1W40NW?il=0
                    That didn’t cause a drop in 5% of the world oil supply start a new thread on that story that’s irrelevant on this one.

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                    • #55
                      Thanks Snowshoveler for keeping us on track, yes we should talk about the 5% drop you mentioned. The perceived drop has yet to impact the global oil market, oil demand for the foreseeable weeks has already been bought and is in the system. Short term delays in the Saudis resuming production from the damaged facilities will be either filled by the release of strategic reserves or an increase in production from other countries. A prolonged delay may test the global markets but will also drive further drilling for shale oil in domestic markets like the US that is more resilient to fluctuations and thanks to the global oil prices being linked is also benefiting from the temporary surge in prices. Crude prices have already dropped to pre attack levels.

                      A lot of speculation around the actual attacks and I do hope the investigations come up with honest answers and whatever happens, level heads prevail.

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                      • #56
                        The US is sending troops mostly air defences to Saudi Arabia.

                        https://ca.reuters.com/article/topNe...BN1W52K3-OCATP

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                        • #57
                          I get the impression that the Iranians are actively looking for a military confrontation. They seem to have a strategy of gradual escalation. First the attacks on tankers, then the seizure of the British tanker and now the attack on Saudi. There has been no real response to any of their moves to date. We can expect them to ratchet up the tension again soon.

                          I would not be surprised if their next or maybe next plus one step is an attack on a US asset.
                          "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                            I get the impression that the Iranians are actively looking for a military confrontation. They seem to have a strategy of gradual escalation. First the attacks on tankers, then the seizure of the British tanker and now the attack on Saudi. There has been no real response to any of their moves to date. We can expect them to ratchet up the tension again soon.

                            I would not be surprised if their next or maybe next plus one step is an attack on a US asset.
                            That seems unlikely. Probably the Iranians will continue to use proxies, and target US allies.

                            That way the US loses regardless. No one stops Iran, and the alliance with the US is shown to be of no consequence for protection against them. Until the US relents, breaks out the hardware and bombs something in Iran. Which then can be calculated to strengthen the Iranian government in the eyes of their own population anyway.

                            The US has been on a declining trend in the Mid East at least since Trump decided to rip up the Iran nuclear deal. And he can't walk it back now, should he even want to.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                              That seems unlikely. Probably the Iranians will continue to use proxies, and target US allies.

                              That way the US loses regardless. No one stops Iran, and the alliance with the US is shown to be of no consequence for protection against them. Until the US relents, breaks out the hardware and bombs something in Iran. Which then can be calculated to strengthen the Iranian government in the eyes of their own population anyway.

                              The US has been on a declining trend in the Mid East at least since Trump decided to rip up the Iran nuclear deal. And he can't walk it back now, should he even want to.
                              Iran’s proxies aren’t being well funded anymore since Trump cut their income off with sanctions that’s a win right there even with Iran lashing out as long as Iran’s abilities to wage war are severely limited containment and restraint should keep on working.
                              Last edited by Snowshoveler; 21 Sep 19, 11:27.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Snowshoveler View Post

                                Iran’s proxies aren’t being well funded anymore since Trump cut their income off with sanctions that’s a win right there even with Iran lashing out as long as Iran’s abilities to wage war are severely limited containment and restraint should keep on working.
                                I think the question in need of asking in relation to how you have here chosen to describe the scenario is:

                                At what price for the US' allies in the region?

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