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  • Originally posted by Daud View Post


    Antisemitism is european famous product, even romans prosecuted jews.
    Early church was heavy antisemitic and even on wiki you can find some stuff for info

    " Christian rhetoric and antipathy towards Jews developed in the early years of Christianityand was reinforced by the belief that Jews had killed Christ and ever increasing anti-Jewish measures over the ensuing centuries. The action taken by Christians against Jews included acts of ostracism, humiliation, violence, and murder, culminating in the Holocaust.[1]:21[2]:169[3] "

    "
    The Nazis used Martin Luther's book, On the Jews and Their Lies (1543), to claim a moral righteousness for their ideology. Luther even went so far as to advocate the murder of those Jews who refused to convert to Christianity, writing that "we are at fault in not slaying them "


    more on:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti...n_Christianity

    ​​​​​​
    We can argue the position of church and real believers in totalitarian system in Germany before ww2 but even if you dont count last century, you ll find alot of things.

    Till 15th century, all jews from Iberian peninsula are killed or prosecuted, together with muslims.
    Your answer is of topic : my reply was on the claim from SWJ that christians supported the Holocaust .Something SWJ has already said in the past and for which he has no proof.
    And the examples you are citing,can be repeated for the Muslims : hundreds of Jews were murdered in the ME and NA by Muslims during WWII,there was even a Muslim division in the WSS and the Mufti of Jerusalem did meet Hitler during the war .The attitude of the Islam to Jews and Christians was /is very hostile : the Koran is swarming with exhortations to kill all the Jews .

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

      Your answer is of topic : my reply was on the claim from SWJ that christians supported the Holocaust .Something SWJ has already said in the past and for which he has no proof.
      And the examples you are citing,can be repeated for the Muslims : hundreds of Jews were murdered in the ME and NA by Muslims during WWII,there was even a Muslim division in the WSS and the Mufti of Jerusalem did meet Hitler during the war .The attitude of the Islam to Jews and Christians was /is very hostile : the Koran is swarming with exhortations to kill all the Jews .

      You re all ove the place. Its just impossible to put = sign between situation of jews under muslims and christians.
      Actually jews had their golden age in muslim spain - their theology was re-buit again. They fled in muslim countries durrign ww2 and there wasnt really a big problem till Britain didnt gave them that part land.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold...lture_in_Spain

      Koran doesnt say these things. I would like that you bring some evidences for your claims.

      Comment


      • Let's keep it simple to start with and see what Wikipedia says about Jews under Muslim rule in past centuries. Surely, Wikipedia is not 100% accurate, but in general it cannot be accused to promote islamophobic and right-wing ideas, or to lie on basic historical facts:
        Ottoman Empire


        The Ottoman Empire served as a refuge for Jewish refugees from Spanish empire, especially after the fall of Muslim Spain in 1492 and Edict of Expulsion. This continued through the Roman Catholic Inquisition, as secret Jews and forced converts continued to flee Spain. The Maghreb from North Africa similarly found refuge among the Ottomans, as large Arabian cities created their own restrictive Jewish quarters (Mellahs).




        Photochrom of Jews in Jerusalem, in the 1890s.




        In 1834, in Safed, Ottoman Syria, local Muslim Arabs carried out a massacre of the Jewish population known as the Safed Plunder.[25][26]

        In 1840, the Jews of Damascus were falsely accused of having murdered a Christian monk and his Muslim servant and of having used their blood to bake Passover bread.[27] A Jewish barber was tortured until he "confessed"; two other Jews who were arrested died under torture, while a third converted to Islam to save his life. Throughout the 1860s, the Jews of Libya were subjected to what Gilbert calls punitive taxation. In 1864, around 500 Jews were killed in Marrakech and Fez in Morocco. In 1869, 18 Jews were killed in Tunis, and an Arab mob on Jerba Island looted and burned Jewish homes, stores, and synagogues. In 1875, 20 Jews were killed by a mob in Demnat, Morocco; elsewhere in Morocco, Jews were attacked and killed in the streets in broad daylight. In 1897, synagogues were ransacked and Jews were murdered in Tripolitania.[28]
        Kurdistan

        Jews lived in Kurdistan for thousands of years, before the final and mass migration in 1951-1952 to Israel. The Jews lived under the Ottoman Empire and under the Persian Empire for many years and following World War I, they lived mainly in Iraq, Iran and Turkey, some lived in Syria. Jews lived in many Kurdish urban centers such as Aqra, Dohuk, Arbil, Zakho, Sulaimaniya, Amadia, in Southern Kurdistan, in Saqiz, Bana and Ushno, in Eastern Kurdistan, in Jezira, Nisebin, Mardin and Diyarbakır in Turkey and in Qamishle in North-Western Syria. Jews lived as well in hundreds of villages in the rural and tribal area of Kurdistan, usually one or two families in a village, where they worked as weavers of traditional Kurdish clothing or as tenants of the agha, the landlord or head of the village.
        Persia

        n 1656, all Jews were expelled from Isfahan and forced to convert to Islam because of a common belief that their Jewishness was impure. However, as it became known that the converts continued to practice Judaism in secret and because the treasury suffered from the loss of jizya collected from the Jews, in 1661 they were allowed to revert to Judaism, although they were still required to wear a distinctive patch on their clothing.[29]

        In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. The Jews themselves were violently forced to convert, narrowly avoiding complete massacre.[28] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[30][31] In 1839, the Allahdad incident, the Jews of Mashhad, Iran, now known as the Mashhadi Jews, were coerced into converting to Islam.[32]

        In the middle of the 19th century, J. J. Benjamin wrote of Persian Jews:
        "…they are obliged to live in a separate part of town…; for they are considered as unclean creatures… Under the pretext of their being unclean, they are treated with the greatest severity and should they enter a street, inhabited by Mussulmans, they are pelted by the boys and mobs with stones and dirt… For the same reason, they are prohibited to go out when it rains; for it is said the rain would wash dirt off them, which would sully the feet of the Mussulmans… If a Jew is recognized as such in the streets, he is subjected to the greatest insults. The passers-by spit in his face, and sometimes beat him… unmercifully… If a Jew enters a shop for anything, he is forbidden to inspect the goods… Should his hand incautiously touch the goods, he must take them at any price the seller chooses to ask for them... Sometimes the Persians intrude into the dwellings of the Jews and take possession of whatever please them. Should the owner make the least opposition in defense of his property, he incurs the danger of atoning for it with his life... If... a Jew shows himself in the street during the three days of the Katel (Muharram)…, he is sure to be murdered."[33]
        Bukhara


        A number of groups of Persian Jews have split off since ancient times, to the extent that they are now recognized as separate communities, such as the Bukharian Jews and Mountain Jews.

        Confined to city quarters, the Bukharan Jews were denied basic rights and many were forced to convert to Islam. They had to wear black and yellow dress to distinguish themselves from the Muslims.[34]
        Zaydi Yemen


        Under the Zaydi rule, discriminatory laws became more severe against the Yemenite Jews, which culminated in their eventual exile, in what later became known as the Exile of Mawza. They were considered to be impure, and therefore forbidden to touch a Muslim or a Muslim's food. They were obligated to humble themselves before a Muslim, to walk to the left side, and greet him first. They could not build houses higher than a Muslim's or ride a camel or horse, and when riding on a mule or a donkey, they had to sit sideways. Upon entering the Muslim quarter a Jew had to take off his foot-gear and walk barefoot. If attacked with stones or fists by Islamic youth, a Jew was not allowed to defend himself. In such situations he had the option of fleeing or seeking intervention by a merciful Muslim passerby

        It seems clear that Jews suffered discrimination and persecutions at the hand of Muslims too. Christians may have held a more negative view about Jews because they were seen as the murderers of Jesus. But certainly Muslim countries were no paradise for Jews.
        Last edited by Proconsul; 20 Jan 19, 10:49.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ljadw View Post
          Saying that it was Christians who supported the Holocaust,is a VERY BIG LIE .
          It is history. Christians are people like anyone else. You have your good and bad, the argument can be made the allied Christians saved the world while the Axis Christians tried to instill the alt right version of the world one based on religious and so called racial discrimination.

          Do you agree that one is not born Jewish, Christian or Muslim.

          There are no separate races among humans, you agree ?

          The people that supported the Third Reich and Italy during WW2 were 99% Christian and they believed in supremacy is that the kind of views you support because in many threads you voice anti Third Reich views but lets hear it from you do you believe Muslims are equal to Christians? If your answer is to not answer or is no, what kind of credibility do you think you will carry?

          Further Axis allied states such as the First Slovak Republic and Independent State of Croatia were Catholic Theocratic states, one ran by a Priest in the First Slovak Republic.

          This thread topic is used by anti Muslims to try and make Islam look bad. The Scandinavian women were assaulted not by Islam but by Muslim Criminals. Christians committed the Holocaust, their beliefs were suppose to force them to not support such a movement, but that did not happen.

          Anti Muslim views are historically lazy, considering how many peaceful Muslims come from rich states, how many Muslims are doctors and contributors to society. Its all very interesting because anti Muslim folks seem to forget that hundreds of millions of Christians once supported the Third Reich, and perhaps some thousands supported the likes of ISIL , AQ and The Taliban. And those criminal Muslims that have attacked civilian targets in the so called west are similar to the white supremacists attackers in the USA, from the organized KKK to individual white supremacists. While there has been the bad, Most Christians and Muslims are good folks, if you want to argue agaisnt people based on their religion like how you support banning Muslim immigration, that is your free speech, you are incorrect and will be disagreed with.
          Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 20 Jan 19, 14:05.
          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

          George S Patton

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Proconsul View Post
            Let's keep it simple to start with and see what Wikipedia says about Jews under Muslim rule in past centuries. Surely, Wikipedia is not 100% accurate, but in general it cannot be accused to promote islamophobic and right-wing ideas, or to lie on basic historical facts:
            Ottoman Empire


            The Ottoman Empire served as a refuge for Jewish refugees from Spanish empire, especially after the fall of Muslim Spain in 1492 and Edict of Expulsion. This continued through the Roman Catholic Inquisition, as secret Jews and forced converts continued to flee Spain. The Maghreb from North Africa similarly found refuge among the Ottomans, as large Arabian cities created their own restrictive Jewish quarters (Mellahs).




            Photochrom of Jews in Jerusalem, in the 1890s.




            In 1834, in Safed, Ottoman Syria, local Muslim Arabs carried out a massacre of the Jewish population known as the Safed Plunder.[25][26]

            In 1840, the Jews of Damascus were falsely accused of having murdered a Christian monk and his Muslim servant and of having used their blood to bake Passover bread.[27] A Jewish barber was tortured until he "confessed"; two other Jews who were arrested died under torture, while a third converted to Islam to save his life. Throughout the 1860s, the Jews of Libya were subjected to what Gilbert calls punitive taxation. In 1864, around 500 Jews were killed in Marrakech and Fez in Morocco. In 1869, 18 Jews were killed in Tunis, and an Arab mob on Jerba Island looted and burned Jewish homes, stores, and synagogues. In 1875, 20 Jews were killed by a mob in Demnat, Morocco; elsewhere in Morocco, Jews were attacked and killed in the streets in broad daylight. In 1897, synagogues were ransacked and Jews were murdered in Tripolitania.[28]
            Kurdistan

            Jews lived in Kurdistan for thousands of years, before the final and mass migration in 1951-1952 to Israel. The Jews lived under the Ottoman Empire and under the Persian Empire for many years and following World War I, they lived mainly in Iraq, Iran and Turkey, some lived in Syria. Jews lived in many Kurdish urban centers such as Aqra, Dohuk, Arbil, Zakho, Sulaimaniya, Amadia, in Southern Kurdistan, in Saqiz, Bana and Ushno, in Eastern Kurdistan, in Jezira, Nisebin, Mardin and Diyarbakır in Turkey and in Qamishle in North-Western Syria. Jews lived as well in hundreds of villages in the rural and tribal area of Kurdistan, usually one or two families in a village, where they worked as weavers of traditional Kurdish clothing or as tenants of the agha, the landlord or head of the village.
            Persia

            n 1656, all Jews were expelled from Isfahan and forced to convert to Islam because of a common belief that their Jewishness was impure. However, as it became known that the converts continued to practice Judaism in secret and because the treasury suffered from the loss of jizya collected from the Jews, in 1661 they were allowed to revert to Judaism, although they were still required to wear a distinctive patch on their clothing.[29]

            In 1839, in the eastern Persian city of Meshed, a mob burst into the Jewish Quarter, burned the synagogue, and destroyed the Torah scrolls. The Jews themselves were violently forced to convert, narrowly avoiding complete massacre.[28] There was another massacre in Barfurush in 1867.[30][31] In 1839, the Allahdad incident, the Jews of Mashhad, Iran, now known as the Mashhadi Jews, were coerced into converting to Islam.[32]

            In the middle of the 19th century, J. J. Benjamin wrote of Persian Jews:
            "…they are obliged to live in a separate part of town…; for they are considered as unclean creatures… Under the pretext of their being unclean, they are treated with the greatest severity and should they enter a street, inhabited by Mussulmans, they are pelted by the boys and mobs with stones and dirt… For the same reason, they are prohibited to go out when it rains; for it is said the rain would wash dirt off them, which would sully the feet of the Mussulmans… If a Jew is recognized as such in the streets, he is subjected to the greatest insults. The passers-by spit in his face, and sometimes beat him… unmercifully… If a Jew enters a shop for anything, he is forbidden to inspect the goods… Should his hand incautiously touch the goods, he must take them at any price the seller chooses to ask for them... Sometimes the Persians intrude into the dwellings of the Jews and take possession of whatever please them. Should the owner make the least opposition in defense of his property, he incurs the danger of atoning for it with his life... If... a Jew shows himself in the street during the three days of the Katel (Muharram)…, he is sure to be murdered."[33]

            Bukhara


            A number of groups of Persian Jews have split off since ancient times, to the extent that they are now recognized as separate communities, such as the Bukharian Jews and Mountain Jews.

            Confined to city quarters, the Bukharan Jews were denied basic rights and many were forced to convert to Islam. They had to wear black and yellow dress to distinguish themselves from the Muslims.[34]
            Zaydi Yemen


            Under the Zaydi rule, discriminatory laws became more severe against the Yemenite Jews, which culminated in their eventual exile, in what later became known as the Exile of Mawza. They were considered to be impure, and therefore forbidden to touch a Muslim or a Muslim's food. They were obligated to humble themselves before a Muslim, to walk to the left side, and greet him first. They could not build houses higher than a Muslim's or ride a camel or horse, and when riding on a mule or a donkey, they had to sit sideways. Upon entering the Muslim quarter a Jew had to take off his foot-gear and walk barefoot. If attacked with stones or fists by Islamic youth, a Jew was not allowed to defend himself. In such situations he had the option of fleeing or seeking intervention by a merciful Muslim passerby

            It seems clear that Jews suffered discrimination and persecutions at the hand of Muslims too. Christians may have held a more negative view about Jews because they were seen as the murderers of Jesus. But certainly Muslim countries were no paradise for Jews.
            That article shows points about history, but not all of history..that would take a unprecedented massive study to compare bigotry among religious groups. Jews openly rebelled against the Romans numerous times, Jews supported the slave trade through history . Today there are intolerant Jews in Israel where interfaith marriage is not allowed due to the intolerant Jewish Theocratic Gov of Israel whose policies go against Judaism..

            One can create an article discussing mostly bad things Jews have done just as wiki has the same articles on Hindus, Muslims and Christians which make up most of the worlds population a key to keep in mind. I feel most humans of history were kind people, if one compared the large religions to the small religions you will find criminals in each group.

            Islam and Christianity are clearly a net benefit to the world, yes they have their drawbacks in history which are rare. Today, the greatest and richest states are Muslim and Christian. The most free states are Christian with perhaps Muslim Turkey being the one of the great Muslim majority country that rank among the civilized world led today by Christians.

            There is a small movement of Muslims trying to hijack history. They claim Christians have a history of antisemitism, when in fact Christian Jewish intermarriage is over 50 % today in the Christian majority USA, as clearly Christians and Jews have a history of intermarriage. Under Alfonso X of Spain Jews flourished. Anti Christians, like anti Muslims cherry pick history. Jews flourished throughout Christian spheres of history, its why Jews are found today all over Christian majority Europe. Today we see Christian majority nations allow the best freedoms, more so compared to the one Jewish state and compared to just about all Muslim states. In time, things may change though.
            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

            George S Patton

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

              It is history. Christians are people like anyone else. You have your good and bad, the argument can be made the allied Christians saved the world while the Axis Christians tried to instill the alt right version of the world one based on religious and so called racial discrimination.

              Do you agree that one is not born Jewish, Christian or Muslim.

              There are no separate races among humans, you agree ?

              The people that supported the Third Reich and Italy during WW2 were 99% Christian and they believed in supremacy is that the kind of views you support because in many threads you voice anti Third Reich views but lets hear it from you do you believe Muslims are equal to Christians? If your answer is to not answer or is no, what kind of credibility do you think you will carry?

              Further Axis allied states such as the First Slovak Republic and Independent State of Croatia were Catholic Theocratic states, one ran by a Priest in the First Slovak Republic.

              This thread topic is used by anti Muslims to try and make Islam look bad. The Scandinavian women were assaulted not by Islam but by Muslim Criminals. Christians committed the Holocaust, their beliefs were suppose to force them to not support such a movement, but that did not happen.

              Anti Muslim views are historically lazy, considering how many peaceful Muslims come from rich states, how many Muslims are doctors and contributors to society. Its all very interesting because anti Muslim folks seem to forget that hundreds of millions of Christians once supported the Third Reich, and perhaps some thousands supported the likes of ISIL , AQ and The Taliban. And those criminal Muslims that have attacked civilian targets in the so called west are similar to the white supremacists attackers in the USA, from the organized KKK to individual white supremacists. While there has been the bad, Most Christians and Muslims are good folks, if you want to argue agaisnt people based on their religion like how you support banning Muslim immigration, that is your free speech, you are incorrect and will be disagreed with.
              Repeating lies will not transform them in truth .
              You have said that hundreds of millions of Christians supported the Holocaust : this is a lie ,and remains a lie , even when you will repeat it thousand times .
              The religion of those who were forced to fight for Hitler( = Germans,who were 80 million and not hundreds of millions ) was irrelevant and had NO influence upon their decision to fight for Hitler .
              The religion of the Muslims who fought for Hitler ( WSS division Handschar ) was very important, because they joined this division because they were Muslims .
              The religion of those who murdered during the war countless Jews in NA and the ME was very important ,because this religion (the ISLAM ) was the reason why they murdered these Jews .
              NO ONE fought against Hitler because he was a Christian , even the number of those who fought against Hitler because they were communists ,has alkso been exaggerated .
              A very small number of Germans fought for Hitler because they were nazis .Most people fought because they had to fight .
              WWII was NOT a war of religion, the only who were religiously motivated were the Muslims .
              Banning Muslim immigration is not only a good thing, but a necessity to survive : they are hostile to our values,thus there is no place for them in thge Western world .
              The present war is not a war of Christians against Muslims, but of Muslims against non Muslims .
              The US pilots who killed 52 terrorists in Somalia did not sing Onwards Christian soldiers, but the Muslim terrorists are shouting Allah Akbar .That's the difference .
              And repeating lies about interfaith marriage in Israel will also nt make them truth : 10% of Israeli marriages are interfaith .

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Daud View Post
                ....

                So for me its easy to spot someone who speaks from experience and knowledge and someone who just repeating fox news.
                So you can tell that I spent 6 months over there, in places called Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq?

                How much time have you spent over there?

                Originally posted by Daud View Post
                “iZlam“ does NOT play significant role in those societies as you may think. Really, over 80% have no clue about basic stuff. In general, they re not interested in any knowledge, just chill under the sun, with weed in Marocco or Karachi. If some culture is obsessed with sex, dont blame religion.
                Oh, I know that lots of people over there would LOVE to be liberated from Islamic Ideology, they just never fight hard enough to get free of it themselves.
                That, and freeing themselves of it makes they a target for all the other muslims in the world, and they generally end up dead... just like the vast majority of Christians in Syria. A century ago Syrian was 30% Christian, 20 years ago it was 10%.
                Care to guess what it is now?

                Oh, and when the girls end up dead and their bodies are mutilated, it ain't about sex.

                Honestly, how sick do you have to be to minimize an atrocity like this for Political purposes? It helps the Fundamentalists a lot when you try to hide this kind of thing from Western eyes, and hinders the moderates who should be making examples of these monsters.
                "Why is the Rum gone?"

                -Captain Jack

                Comment


                • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post

                  So you can tell that I spent 6 months over there, in places called Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Iraq?

                  How much time have you spent over there?



                  Oh, I know that lots of people over there would LOVE to be liberated from Islamic Ideology, they just never fight hard enough to get free of it themselves.
                  That, and freeing themselves of it makes they a target for all the other muslims in the world, and they generally end up dead... just like the vast majority of Christians in Syria. A century ago Syrian was 30% Christian, 20 years ago it was 10%.
                  Care to guess what it is now?

                  Oh, and when the girls end up dead and their bodies are mutilated, it ain't about sex.

                  Honestly, how sick do you have to be to minimize an atrocity like this for Political purposes? It helps the Fundamentalists a lot when you try to hide this kind of thing from Western eyes, and hinders the moderates who should be making examples of these monsters.

                  You mixed few things here.
                  First, understand that a government ir leader or whatever in power is can proclaim itself as >islamic< but be corrupt and incompetent and even muslims there are not able to criticize it if they re not satisfied. Your friend prince Salman butchered that journalist few months ago. Dont want to mention other examples. So i ll use straw man and say how sick you must be to support him or Sisi .

                  These societies are not developed because od many -many things. You re describing it too simplistic in my opinion. Where the hell is islamic ideology !? Few years ago i was in UAE and went to friday prayer in Shaikh Zayed mosque, big place, a man havent said 1 word about situation of syrian people ! Not 1 word ! I asked how much reffugees they took. 0! Yeah, zero ! We in europe took tens of thousands. And now you want me to accept those people as muslim/islamic ? I reject them as such. So really if you want to show me that Islam is the problem you should open the books and show me where is the problem, dont show me whqt people do or do not.

                  Yes, people flee because of many different reasons. Some are just abused by nutjobs



                  See this example, just one floor under my flat lives iraqi reffugee with his girfriend, in middle of europe. He said to me that he had 3 cars in front of his house, had few shops and havent paid taxes alot. He also said that now he lives like a dog, in a foreign country with shity climate, works too much and pays taxes alot and experiencing racism and marginalisation every day.
                  He is muslim ( didnt want to dig in a man and ask is he sunni shia or whatever), his country has alot of natural resources, yet he lives as an animal.
                  Was Islam his problem too ?

                  -----------------------------------------------------------

                  And now lets say in a parallel universe in Syria war is over and syrian opposition is strong and they formed a state with justful institutions. And some christians or whoever just dont want to live there anymore. So what ?
                  Some radical christians in usa hate that much liberal constitution ( for example abortion laws) and they would like to change it.

                  -------------------------------------
                  For USA constitution is sacred, if you attack constitution you re enemy of the state. You cant go under that level without a sanction.

                  For real Islamic country, Islam is constitution and is sacred and is portrayed as truth, and you can not attack it . Can other live normally in that country, yes ! They lived for over 1000 years.

                  the best generation of muslims took syria from bysantine empire and since that moment christians live among muslims. Oldest churches in the world are in Syria and Turkey. Have that in mind.
                  -------------------------------------


                  Now

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                    Repeating lies will not transform them in truth .
                    You have said that hundreds of millions of Christians supported the Holocaust : this is a lie ,and remains a lie , even when you will repeat it thousand times .
                    The religion of those who were forced to fight for Hitler( = Germans,who were 80 million and not hundreds of millions ) was irrelevant and had NO influence upon their decision to fight for Hitler .
                    The religion of the Muslims who fought for Hitler ( WSS division Handschar ) was very important, because they joined this division because they were Muslims .
                    The religion of those who murdered during the war countless Jews in NA and the ME was very important ,because this religion (the ISLAM ) was the reason why they murdered these Jews .
                    NO ONE fought against Hitler because he was a Christian , even the number of those who fought against Hitler because they were communists ,has alkso been exaggerated .
                    A very small number of Germans fought for Hitler because they were nazis .Most people fought because they had to fight .
                    WWII was NOT a war of religion, the only who were religiously motivated were the Muslims .
                    Banning Muslim immigration is not only a good thing, but a necessity to survive : they are hostile to our values,thus there is no place for them in thge Western world .
                    The present war is not a war of Christians against Muslims, but of Muslims against non Muslims .
                    The US pilots who killed 52 terrorists in Somalia did not sing Onwards Christian soldiers, but the Muslim terrorists are shouting Allah Akbar .That's the difference .
                    And repeating lies about interfaith marriage in Israel will also nt make them truth : 10% of Israeli marriages are interfaith .
                    You telling us that sky is green and that grass is blue.

                    ive mentioned big influencer in german tought, great Martin Luther who said: " we can only blame ourselves if we dont kill them all (jews)" and now you telling that all these european antisemitism was not religiously motivated !?

                    the jews killed a god ! - according to christianity

                    Cmon man. Dont force your theology and history on us. We re not same.

                    Comment


                    • This is one of the most non-sensical posts I have ever seen... and what I mean by that is it is very hard to make any sense of it.
                      So, minimal inout time here...

                      Originally posted by Daud View Post


                      You mixed few things here.
                      First, understand that a government ir leader or whatever in power is can proclaim itself as >islamic< but be corrupt and incompetent

                      "Can" be? As things stand now, "Islamic" and corrupt & incompetent go hand in hand.

                      and even muslims there are not able to criticize it if they re not satisfied.

                      I seem to recall something called the Arab Spring not so long ago....

                      Your friend prince Salman butchered that journalist few months ago. Dont want to mention other examples. So i ll use straw man and say how sick you must be to support him or Sisi .

                      What now?
                      Oh, the "journalist" !
                      The Hamas mouthpiece that once got a few lines printed in a Marxist rag in the US, yeah, I remember him. He walked into a Saudi consulate to try to maintain his contacts so he could keep undercutting the reformists in a country that was nominally his nationality.
                      Yeah, too bad, anther Terrorist sympathizer and enabler got what he deserved.
                      Next?


                      These societies are not developed because od many -many things. You re describing it too simplistic in my opinion. Where the hell is islamic ideology !? Few years ago i was in UAE and went to friday prayer in Shaikh Zayed mosque, big place, a man havent said 1 word about situation of syrian people ! Not 1 word ! I asked how much reffugees they took. 0! Yeah, zero ! We in europe took tens of thousands. And now you want me to accept those people as muslim/islamic ? I reject them as such. So really if you want to show me that Islam is the problem you should open the books and show me where is the problem, dont show me whqt people do or do not.

                      So, you play the Holier Than Thou card to disparage them, but they are still creeps to me too. In the U.A.E. they still routinely throw women that have been rapped into prison when they register a complaint.
                      Why? Islam, and the very explicit demands it makes on the society of everyone of that faith.
                      Just going by the book.... as it suits them.


                      Yes, people flee because of many different reasons. Some are just abused by nutjobs



                      See this example, just one floor under my flat lives iraqi reffugee with his girfriend, in middle of europe. He said to me that he had 3 cars in front of his house, had few shops and havent paid taxes alot. He also said that now he lives like a dog, in a foreign country with shity climate, works too much and pays taxes alot and experiencing racism and marginalisation every day.
                      He is muslim ( didnt want to dig in a man and ask is he sunni shia or whatever), his country has alot of natural resources, yet he lives as an animal.
                      Was Islam his problem too ?

                      His problem was being one of the bad guys, going by his story and his inability to go back to Iraq.
                      Under Saddam's regime, 10% of the population had a fine time abusing the other 90%. When the USA-lead Coalition liberated the 90%, the 10% could either leave or die or face what happens when the worm turns.
                      He was a Baathist, him not paying his taxes in Iraq is a dead give away.


                      And now lets say in a parallel universe in Syria war is over and syrian opposition is strong and they formed a state with justful institutions. And some christians or whoever just dont want to live there anymore. So what ?
                      Some radical christians in usa hate that much liberal constitution ( for example abortion laws) and they would like to change it.

                      I have no idea what this is supposed to mean, your English is way too broken here.

                      -------------------------------------
                      For USA constitution is sacred, if you attack constitution you re enemy of the state. You cant go under that level without a sanction.

                      Well, duh!
                      If you are against the Constitution you are against the USA, its people, and it's Government is something you want to overthrow.


                      For real Islamic country, Islam is constitution and is sacred and is portrayed as truth, and you can not attack it .

                      And there you go, congratulations!
                      This is my point exactly, there is no such thing as separation of Church and State there, and there ought to be if the Islamic world is ever going to be part of the modern world!
                      Instead, the militants what to destroy the modern world, and it's civilization.
                      (No wonder the Socialists are in bed with Fundamentalist Islam, eh?)


                      Can other live normally in that country, yes ! They lived for over 1000 years.

                      the best generation of muslims took syria from bysantine empire and since that moment christians live among muslims. Oldest churches in the world are in Syria and Turkey. Have that in mind.
                      -
                      Are you seriously suggesting that the Christians are not being slaughtered, but just leaving because they want to?
                      Because if you are, I have tons of material that show otherwise.
                      But hell, what's another genocide in that part of the world, right? Just another day in the armpit of the planet...
                      Jihad Report
                      Jan 12, 2019 -
                      Jan 18, 2019

                      Attacks 28
                      Killed 136
                      Injured 231
                      Suicide Blasts 5
                      Countries 13


                      "Why is the Rum gone?"

                      -Captain Jack

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                        Repeating lies will not transform them in truth .
                        You have said that hundreds of millions of Christians supported the Holocaust : this is a lie ,and remains a lie , even when you will repeat it thousand times .
                        The religion of those who were forced to fight for Hitler( = Germans,who were 80 million and not hundreds of millions ) was irrelevant and had NO influence upon their decision to fight for Hitler .
                        The religion of the Muslims who fought for Hitler ( WSS division Handschar ) was very important, because they joined this division because they were Muslims .
                        The religion of those who murdered during the war countless Jews in NA and the ME was very important ,because this religion (the ISLAM ) was the reason why they murdered these Jews .
                        NO ONE fought against Hitler because he was a Christian , even the number of those who fought against Hitler because they were communists ,has alkso been exaggerated .
                        A very small number of Germans fought for Hitler because they were nazis .Most people fought because they had to fight .
                        WWII was NOT a war of religion, the only who were religiously motivated were the Muslims .
                        Banning Muslim immigration is not only a good thing, but a necessity to survive : they are hostile to our values,thus there is no place for them in thge Western world .
                        The present war is not a war of Christians against Muslims, but of Muslims against non Muslims .
                        The US pilots who killed 52 terrorists in Somalia did not sing Onwards Christian soldiers, but the Muslim terrorists are shouting Allah Akbar .That's the difference .
                        And repeating lies about interfaith marriage in Israel will also nt make them truth : 10% of Israeli marriages are interfaith .
                        Only maybe .025-.05 percent of the Reich was Muslim, probably less. Idk why you are doing this, yes we both agree Hitler wanted to work with Muslims. Indeed the makeup of The Reich, Italy, Axis France was 99% Christian. One can see the allied side had the good Christians. You should delete any post of yours itt or another when you wrongly say the Reich was not a Christian movement. Christianity forces people to not kill innocents, that is a fact. The Reich Christians did not care about this rule, in fact many of them such as Father Tiso said Christianity approves of kicking Jews out of The Slovak Republic, that it was a Christians duty to stand up to Jews.

                        All over Germany during Hitlers time in power Catholic and Lutheran Churches blasted Judaism with fiery speeches. This is basic common knowledge, you may have heard of Martin Luther and On Jews and Their Lies which Hitler admired Luther and the writings of Martin Luther. Hitler was a Catholic till his last breath, the Church in those days was led by Nazi Bishops, the head of the Church in WW2 was pro Hitler, he was one of the weakest minded Catholics to ever live for he could have excommunicated Hitler but he did not. His name is not worth mentioning.

                        ISIL,AQ , The Taliban were theocratic movements which had the support of thousands of Muslims compared to the Hundreds of Millions of Christians and thousands of Muslims that supported Hitler during WW2. The differences between ISIL and the Reich was the Reich was technically not theocratic(though some of its allies were literally Catholic States) but in the 1930s and 1940s Christian Europeans largely supported Hitler. For many Christians Hitler was a great leader. So yes The Reich was not a theocratic movement but its vast vast support came from Christians many of whom said yes Christianity supports Hitlers views.

                        The issue in modern day Israel and Saudi Arabia for example is that interfaith couples have to travel to different countries to get married, its because the Theocratic Gov of Saudi and Israel block interfaith marriage. Of course, rich American interfaith couples can visit Saudi or Israel so there are interfaith couples in Saudi and Israel, even bars and nightclubs but these countries are not free as our for example Turkey, USA, and England.
                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                          This is one of the most non-sensical posts I have ever seen... and what I mean by that is it is very hard to make any sense of it.
                          So, minimal inout time here...



                          Are you seriously suggesting that the Christians are not being slaughtered, but just leaving because they want to?
                          Because if you are, I have tons of material that show otherwise.
                          But hell, what's another genocide in that part of the world, right? Just another day in the armpit of the planet...
                          Jihad Report
                          Jan 12, 2019 -
                          Jan 18, 2019
                          Attacks 28
                          Killed 136
                          Injured 231
                          Suicide Blasts 5
                          Countries 13
                          That type of heavy language is what the anti Muslims want you to believe. The type of language such as slaughter, wipe out or similar that is what the Third Reich had the power to do to so many minorities. But the attacks you are talking about are a sliver of the portion of the violence that The Third Reich inflicted on the world, day after day, hour after hour for years on end.

                          Christianity represents the worlds most followed religion. Christians are growing in numbers and are very strong.


                          99% of ISIL victims are Muslims not Christians. AQ, Boko Haram, Taliban, ISIL etc these groups target anyone that disagrees with them. Anti Muslims will not tell you, and they never want you to talk about Christians, Jews, Hindus and Atheists that team with Muslims in Muslim majority countries to fight back against bigoted Muslims.

                          Syria has many Christians, Lebanon is half Christian. In Europe there have been Muslims living side by side peacefully with Chistians, same in the middle east it goes back to the middle ages.

                          Today Spain has a rich Islamic history, and still is home to a good # of Muslims. So there it is, huge massive numbers of Christians live in Lebanon, some serve the military so no weakling ISIL members going to mess with a Lebanese person.

                          In Turkey interfaith marriage is allowed, but interfaith marriage is not allowed in the rich Israel and Saudi what is with that. Time for change in Israel and Saudi.

                          Christian majority USA sees 30% of American Muslims marry into non Islamic faiths.

                          Christians and Muslims are a massive benefit to world history.

                          OTOH criminals are found from all walks of life. Thats why practically every country has jails filled with criminals.
                          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                          George S Patton

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by The Exorcist View Post
                            This is one of the most non-sensical posts I have ever seen... and what I mean by that is it is very hard to make any sense of it.
                            So, minimal inout time here...


                            Are you seriously suggesting that the Christians are not being slaughtered, but just leaving because they want to?
                            Because if you are, I have tons of material that show otherwise.
                            But hell, what's another genocide in that part of the world, right? Just another day in the armpit of the planet...
                            Jihad Report
                            Jan 12, 2019 -
                            Jan 18, 2019
                            Attacks 28
                            Killed 136
                            Injured 231
                            Suicide Blasts 5
                            Countries 13

                            So sawing a journalist makes you laugh if he speaks something against your guy., Sisi or MbS, dictators by the way.

                            Thats why all that bulls*itting about free speech -democracy and other noone count anymore.

                            Your "modern" state would be in jeopardy withot Nixons petrodollar. Let feds pump that paper money and leave it little bit. Lets see how long will that work in cluture of guns and violence, especially with all those prisoners and different ethnic groups and ideologies when some kind of economic crisis come.



                            And no, western type of secularism will not work in that part of the world. It can be extended one period eith violence but in the end... no.

                            Its interesting topic and there are reasons why that western ideology cant work there. Your pushing for secularisation is part of ideological warfare, i believe you doing it eithout even realising. Maybe you do realise and doing it with purpouse

                            - destroy islamic law and implement secular
                            - destroy muslim ethic and bring western
                            - reform islam so it isnt islam anymore


                            and you ll have easy profitable control over those nations, they will be your.
                            Last edited by Daud; 23 Jan 19, 03:11.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Daud View Post


                              So sawing a journalist makes you laugh if he speaks something against your guy., Sisi or MbS, dictators by the way.

                              Thats why all that bulls*itting about free speech -democracy and other noone count anymore.

                              Your "modern" state would be in jeopardy withot Nixons petrodollar. Let feds pump that paper money and leave it little bit. Lets see how long will that work in cluture of guns and violence, especially with all those prisoners and different ethnic groups and ideologies when some kind of economic crisis come.
                              Didn't have to try very hard to trigger this anti-American rant, did I ?
                              Thanks for the display of true colors.

                              Originally posted by Daud View Post
                              And no, western type of secularism will not work in that part of the world. It can be extended one period eith violence but in the end... no.
                              Who the hell said it had to be Western secularism?

                              Point out a part of the world where secularism is even controversial outside of those areas dominated by Muslims.
                              Starting to see my point?

                              And even better; you don't have to imitate ANYONE. I'm sure that if you can find many educated ones (not so easy in places where Madrasas are the only option for schooling) that you could find a LOT of intelligent young people who would love the chance to create something new and original that could work very well in the 21st Century World.
                              Iran comes to mind.... but they tried that in 2009, and the Islamic Regime gunned them down in the streets.

                              I keep saying this and nobody keeps listening; if this worlds needs just one thing, it is new and original ideas.

                              Originally posted by Daud View Post
                              Its interesting topic and there are reasons why that western ideology cant work there. Your pushing for secularisation is part of ideological warfare, i believe you doing it eithout even realising. Maybe you do realise and doing it with purpouse
                              See? You are doing exactly what the hard-line Islamic Fundamentalists want you to do.
                              You equate every viable alternative to Islamic Theocracy with solely Western ideology, trapping yourself into supporting the very same mad-dog Militants that you earlier said were not so important.
                              Thanks for proving me right, in so many ways.

                              Originally posted by Daud View Post
                              - destroy islamic law and implement secular
                              - destroy muslim ethic and bring western
                              - reform islam so it isnt islam anymore
                              - you gotta admit, it works very well for the rest of the world. and BTW; Sharia is hideous.
                              - how's that ethic been working for you lately?
                              - spoken like a true Fundamentalist, ISIS would be proud of you.


                              Originally posted by Daud View Post
                              and you ll have easy profitable control over those nations, they will be your.
                              You mean like the EU made your country "their"?

                              'Fraind not, ol' hoss, Better break out your Marx if you want to come up with some twisted & roundabout explanation of how Germany, Japan, Iraq, Afghanistan and a bunch of other countries the USA conquered and then rebuilt (or tried to, in the case of TrashCanistan) are now our sole property.
                              You know, how the USSR did with the Warsaw Pact nations and every other nation they made communist at the point of a gun.
                              "Why is the Rum gone?"

                              -Captain Jack

                              Comment


                              • Wait a minute;

                                Two English women, with a baby, were innocently driving home when a range rover - driven by a 97 year-old Greek immigrant who has spent his life on benefits - slammed into their car after ignoring the rules of the road.

                                Both women were injured (the baby was fine) but all attention has focussed on the immigrant (who has a German wife). Who later was seen driving a new car, but (illegally) not wearing a seat-belt.

                                You're right, the law should be as eager to punish immigrants, as it is to take on its own citizens.


                                Indyref2 - still, "Yes."

                                Comment

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