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American Pastor Detained in Turkey

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  • #16
    It takes time. They have the commun goal of preventing interferance in their surroundings and conduct independent policies. Turkey can help it by fragilizing NATO and US influence in the region.
    There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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    • #17
      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

      Have you any evidence of such, or are you just talking your usual nonsense?

      And the Orthodox Christian seminary was closed in the 1970s, by an ostensibly secular Ankara regime, not by their current AK government. Glad to see that that you put in the tremendous effort to educate yourself by actually reading the links that I provided you.


      Well its a zombie propaganda talking point to allege any major country supports ISIL. Your swallowing hook line and sinker propaganda. In Turkey a Muslim and Christian and all Turks are equals. Tribalistic Jews, Communist Kurds, Muslims and Christians abhor the freedom of marriage and the civil freedoms that Turkey does have. Otoh the true religious and non religious people of the world welcome freedom.

      Bottom line regardless of Church closings regardless of so called discrimination against Muslims in Turkey, and your ignoring this..In Turkey there is no religious supremacy. It may be that in Turkey religious people are not as free as they can be in the USA, mind you Turks have to deal with AQ Muslim supremacists , Tribalistic Kurds whom abhor interfaith marriage they want Kurds to marry Kurds, and yes even Christian bigots coming to Turkey to denigrate Islam. It is fact some Evangelicals from the USA go on trips to Africa and around the world to spread a false message of Christianity and go on to denigrate non Christian religions.

      You probably were not aware in Turkey its Muslims whom face discrimination from the Gov. In Turkey its rare to see a Muslim woman cover her hair, in certain areas its not allowed. I personally know a Muslim lady from Turkey whom came to the USA because she could not wear her Muslim clothing in Turkey. To bad you have been influenced by ugly sources painting a picture that is not true. Intolerant Christians, Muslims, and Jews likewise and any intolerant people or religious group in Turkey will be rightfully called out by proud Turks whom stand for equality among man. That is an important fact to keep in mind.

      Its like your totally oblivious to the other side of the story. You have not commented on the allegations that the American Pastor the subject of this thread...has been said by critics to be connected to a Muslim supremacist group. Makes one wonder what was really going on at that Church in Turkery closed in the 1970s. In Turkey supremacists of any religion would be going agaisnt the legacy of Ataturk and are rightfully opposed by proud and free Turks. You will come around friend.
      Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 05 Aug 18, 18:49.
      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

      George S Patton

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
        If Trump would recognize the Armenian genocide as fact, that would hit Erdogan right where he lives.
        I remember Obama promised to do that in his 2008 presidential campaign to appease the Armenian National Committee of America. He failed to fulfill that promise during his 2 terms.


        During his first presidential campaign in 2008, Obama said he would recognize the event, noting, "Two years ago, I criticized the secretary of state for the firing of U.S. Ambassador to Armenia, John Evans, after he properly used the term 'genocide' to describe Turkey's slaughter of thousands of Armenians starting in 1915. … As president I will recognize the Armenian Genocide."
        The closest he came to fulfilling that promise was on April 22, 2016, he released a statement on Armenian Remembrance Day. But he used the phrases "mass atrocity" and "tragedy," but he did not use the word "genocide." The Armenian-American community calls it a "genocide," as do other world leaders, including Pope Francis.
        "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

        "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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        • #19
          Turkey has a history of honor,

          As the president of the newly formed Turkish Republic, Atatürk initiated a rigorous program of political, economic, and cultural reforms with the ultimate aim of building a modern, progressive, and secular nation-state. He made primary education free and compulsory, opening thousands of new schools all over the country. He also introduced the Latin-based Turkish alphabet, replacing the old Ottoman Turkish alphabet. Turkish women received equal civil and political rights during Atatürk's presidency ahead of many Western countries.[2] In particular, women were given voting rights in local elections by Act no. 1580 on 3 April 1930 and a few years later, in 1934, full universal suffrage, earlier than most other countries in the world.[3]

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustaf...C3%BCrk#Legacy
          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

          George S Patton

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Persephone View Post
            I remember Obama promised to do that in his 2008 presidential campaign to appease the Armenian National Committee of America. He failed to fulfill that promise during his 2 terms.

            The closest he came to fulfilling that promise was on April 22, 2016, he released a statement on Armenian Remembrance Day. But he used the phrases "mass atrocity" and "tragedy," but he did not use the word "genocide." The Armenian-American community calls it a "genocide," as do other world leaders, including Pope Francis.[/CENTER]
            The USA has yet to use the term 'genocide'. I understand that we needed Turkey during the COld War and the WoT, but enough is enough.
            Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post
              Turkey has been pushing the envelope for a while; taking them down a peg certainly would not hurt.
              It sure wouldn't, I have never trusted Turkey and I have never understood what they are doing in NATO in the first place, just my opinion.
              Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Trung Si View Post

                It sure wouldn't, I have never trusted Turkey and I have never understood what they are doing in NATO in the first place, just my opinion.
                They were a chokepoint for the Soviet Black Sea fleet in the Cold War, and a useful place for listening stations.

                That usefulness has passed.
                Any man can hold his place when the bands play and women throw flowers; it is when the enemy presses close and metal shears through the ranks that one can acertain which are soldiers, and which are not.

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                • #23
                  https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/08/13...rkey-rift-f35/
                  https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/14/erdo...ing-apple.html

                  Very good.
                  There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                  • #24
                    But the training at LAFB continues until the Secretary of Defense F-35 report is submitted to Congress for their instruction moving forward.
                    "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

                    "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gixxer86g View Post
                      After what happened during the coup attempt, Turkey's purchase of S400s, and Erdogan's move towards fundamentalism, they should not get F35s.

                      They are not allies.
                      If the US veteos the sale of F35s you may be sure that the Turks will find substitutes elsewhere:- very quickly.
                      "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
                      Samuel Johnson.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post

                        If the US veteos the sale of F35s you may be sure that the Turks will find substitutes elsewhere:- very quickly.
                        That's fine.
                        ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                        BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                        BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Arnold J Rimmer View Post

                          They were a chokepoint for the Soviet Black Sea fleet in the Cold War, and a useful place for listening stations.

                          That usefulness has passed.
                          Hi

                          Yes you could cut Turkey loose and the leave NATO and they fall into the Russian sphere of influence. I bet the Chiefs of Staff will be ecstatic at that prospect.
                          The old Cold War has come and gone but CW v2 is warming up and I'm not sure a Turkey outside of NATO is good on any level. Turkey has many issues that need addressing but pushing them towards the door isn't going to resolve those and will know doubt exacerbate them and others.

                          Regards

                          Andy H
                          "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                          "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                          • #28
                            Some extra context here ....

                            Turkey brain drain: Crackdown pushes intellectuals out
                            • 28 December 2017
                            • ....
                            The 61-year-old professor packed his life into a dozen boxes, bade farewell to his students at Istanbul's Bilgi University and moved to a new teaching position in Brussels, where he believes he's no longer at risk.

                            He is just one of a growing brain drain of those opposed to Turkey's direction.

                            "We're not even feeling safe during lectures anymore", he said, clearing the shelves in his Istanbul apartment.

                            "We have to watch what we're saying. Some students record you and you see it on pro-government media - that you're insulting the president. You write something and you start getting threats and insults."

                            He stacked another box with his prized academic books, deciding which of his 2,000 he would take.

                            "I used to have a very healthy relationship with my religious students," he recalled. "But now they feel they're the elite and we're the pariah. Years ago, they were trying to get power. Now they have it, they're questioning our right to share it."
                            ....
                            Those who could are leaving Turkey. Others are on trial for "terrorism propaganda".

                            Since the failed coup of July 2016, in which more than 260 people were killed, a wave of emigration from Turkey has quickened. The post-coup clampdown has seen 60,000 people arrested and 150,000 suspended or dismissed.

                            Not only academics are leaving

                            As well as intellectuals, there's a broader exodus from the country's secular side, as the grip of religious nationalism grows tighter. There are no official statistics on the migration flow. But through our research, we collected some examples.
                            ...
                            No Jewish applicant whom we spoke to was willing to go on the record. Few of those trying to leave Turkey at all, or indeed critics of the government, are now ready to give interviews - a sign of the climate of fear that's engulfed the country.

                            We spoke to one man moving his whole family to Spain, on condition we withheld his name. "It breaks my heart that I'm leaving - but I can't breathe here anymore," he said.

                            "My thoughts are not wanted; the way I want to live is not wanted. We now have to choose a side. If it's not the right side, your business won't grow or you can't express your feelings - otherwise you'll have trouble. You need to be Muslim, Sunni and pro-government."

                            I asked if it was his Jewishness or his criticism of the government that's made him feel a target. "Both", he replied. "When I say I'm Jewish, I've heard many times: 'you describe yourself as a Jew - not a Turk?'"
                            ...
                            Selcan Turk, a Turkish estate agent in Athens, took me around an apartment with a view of the Acropolis that she recently sold to a Turkish family. Last year, she showed three properties a month to Turks. Now it's three a week.

                            "People don't feel safe in their country anymore regarding human rights, democracy and justice", she said. "They feel here that there is real democracy and freedom".

                            That is what those leaving believe Turkey now lacks: even the aim of striving for the Western-style democracy it once craved. Perhaps allowing the critics to go handily removes the checks and balances on a government many feel is increasingly authoritarian.
                            ....
                            https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-42433668
                            Whiskey for my men, and beer for my horses.
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                            Bock's First Law of History: The Past shapes the Present, which forms the Future. *

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