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Can the United States benefit from its own "Security Fence"?

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  • Can the United States benefit from its own "Security Fence"?

    For years Israel has been building a security fence to make it safer; while the fence is controversial it works. Wouldn't it be advantageous for the United States to build something similar?
    Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.
    Mark Twain [Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, 1885]

  • #2
    I believe that there has been a bill passed to pay for a few hundred miles of fence along the southern USA border. However, politicians like the infamous (& really ugly) Nancy P have managed to hold it from actually being constructed.
    "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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    • #3
      Apples and Oranges

      I don't think our situation is comparable enough to the Arab-Israeli conflict to draw many conclusions.

      There are more illegals already in the US than the entire population Gaza and the West Bank combined. Mexico City alone is more populous than many Arab countries. A single large drug cartel has more money than the entire PNA budget.

      I don't think trying a fence would hurt anything beyond the pride of a few politicians. If nothing else there'd be fewer poor Latinos dying in US deserts. I think we'd need a more coordinated and comprehensive package of security, labor, and immigration reforms to put a real dent our illegal immigrant population much less reverse the trend.
      Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by massad View Post
        For years Israel has been building a security fence to make it safer; while the fence is controversial it works. Wouldn't it be advantageous for the United States to build something similar?
        You bet!
        Pleased to meet you.
        I'm sickeningly liberal in many ways, but not when it comes to a fence between the United States and Mexico.
        We have had many interesting and quality threads here about this very topic.
        Members get emotional about this. Which is fine.
        Here are the highlights on my take on the fence.
        • spare no expense, build it 100 yards inside the American border, and extend it into the Pacific Ocean too.
        • the benefits outweigh the liabilities.
        • cuts down the number of illegals, crime, etc.
        • you still must punish employers who hire illegals.
        • national ID would be nice.
        • I think this Roman Model has a lot going for it. If not this Roman model, something, we need to build something!

        Last edited by Slug; 30 Sep 07, 19:09.
        "Advances in technology tend to overwhelm me."

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        • #5
          I don't think it would be all that effective, Fixed defenses only work when the defenders can't retreat or be flanked, They'd probably just drive a truck through it or bribe border guards or something.

          What we need is more manpower/equipment (MQ-1 drones, Ect) and better enforcement of the laws.

          Originally posted by Slug View Post
          National ID would be nice.
          Fascist scum.

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          • #6
            It seems to me I don't understand what a "National ID" is. For as much as I can figure, it's a normal ID that has your name, family name etc. But by the "fascist" remark, I understand this is not so. Please elaborate.

            The Israeli fence will work much better relatively, simply because trespassers can be shot. Detecting a breach is easy nowadays, and with patrols coming and going and a few snipers around, I think trespassers have little chance of survival.

            The American fence, if there will ever be one, will be efficient in my opinion.
            The brutal solution is sometimes less brutal than the alternative.
            -Niccolo Machiavelli

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            • #7
              Originally posted by TerrorWing View Post
              It seems to me I don't understand what a "National ID" is. For as much as I can figure, it's a normal ID that has your name, family name etc. But by the "fascist" remark, I understand this is not so. Please elaborate.
              For a fair amount of people over here (Myself included), National IDs are synonymous with internal passports, A way for fascist/totalitarian governments to control their population and deny their human rights.

              Most people in the US have a driver's license that lists their name, birth date, distinguishing characteristics, what classes of vehicles they're allowed to operate, ect. I'd say that they're similar to your Teudat Zehut cards but they're not compulsory.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

              Originally posted by TerrorWing View Post
              The Israeli fence will work much better relatively, simply because trespassers can be shot. Detecting a breach is easy nowadays, and with patrols coming and going and a few snipers around, I think trespassers have little chance of survival.

              The American fence, if there will ever be one, will be efficient in my opinion.
              I doubt it, A border patrol agent over here is in prison for doing his job and shooting a drug runner from Mexico in the ass, I hate to imagine the s**tstorm that would result if we started gunning them down wholesale.

              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignacio_Ramos
              Last edited by the_redstar_swl; 01 Oct 07, 03:38.

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              • #8
                Seems to me that National IDs are just what you make of them, and what power you invest in them. You can consider high-tech companies pass cards as "internal passports". Nothing wrong there now is there? I know it sounds as if I'm supporting the National IDs idea, but I'm not. Maybe I still don't quite get it - I can't see how it has to do with Mexican immigration to the US, since you can be a perfectly legal immigrant with it as well, no? I don't think any card will solve that problem anyways.

                I didn't mean for you to shoot them!
                I was saying ours is better, because WE can shoot them.
                You can't, but fences would still help.
                The brutal solution is sometimes less brutal than the alternative.
                -Niccolo Machiavelli

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by the_redstar_swl View Post
                  I don't think it would be all that effective, Fixed defenses only work when the defenders can't retreat or be flanked, They'd probably just drive a truck through it or bribe border guards or something.

                  What we need is more manpower/equipment (MQ-1 drones, Ect) and better enforcement of the laws.



                  Fascist scum.
                  To be considered:
                  The installation of a hi-tech fence would be beneficial and effective for these reasons:
                  1) Requires less man-power
                  2) Sensors and other gadgets allow for more area to be covered
                  3) Involves an added obsticle which currently doesn't exist.
                  4) Has the possibility to make our country safer and to protect our workers.
                  5) Cost effective
                  Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.
                  Mark Twain [Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, 1885]

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                  • #10
                    Do you have any information on the bill?
                    Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral in it will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot.
                    Mark Twain [Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, 1885]

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by massad View Post
                      To be considered:
                      The installation of a hi-tech fence would be beneficial and effective for these reasons:
                      1) Requires less man-power
                      It would allow the current manpower to be more effectively employed in efforts to interdict illegal immigration.

                      Originally posted by massad
                      2) Sensors and other gadgets allow for more area to be covered
                      Probably true.

                      Originally posted by massad
                      3) Involves an added obsticle which currently doesn't exist.
                      If it was combined with a more efficient system to allow legal aliens to enter the country, it would be a significant obstacle to illegal aliens - including terrorists and drug traffickers.

                      Originally posted by massad
                      4) Has the possibility to make our country safer and to protect our workers.
                      If it's done properly.

                      Originally posted by massad
                      5) Cost effective
                      Very little that our government does is "cost effective." The fence might make sense from a security perspective; but even if the government hired illegal aliens to build it – it would still fail to be “cost effective.”
                      Watts Up With That? | The world's most viewed site on global warming and climate change.

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                      • #12
                        Doc, how many of the 9/11 terrorist came across one of our borders, unknow?

                        How many would be terrorist have been caught on our southern border?

                        How many have been caught on our northern border?

                        North wins again.

                        HP
                        "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                        Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                        you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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                        • #13
                          Guys you don't need wall, you need will. Political will. IMO your problem with immigrants is the same as ours in Europe - those in office actually want immigrants. They are allowing them in.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Imperial View Post
                            Guys you don't need wall, you need will. Political will. IMO your problem with immigrants is the same as ours in Europe - those in office actually want immigrants. They are allowing them in.

                            In Western Europe you are the immigrants. What people are considered immigrants in Romania.

                            HP
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Half Pint View Post
                              In Western Europe you are the immigrants. What people are considered immigrants in Romania.

                              HP
                              Since my country is in the EU a Romanian in Italy is no longer an immigrant there just like an Italian in Romania is no longer an immigrant either. The
                              migration flows between member states have become internal movements of persons. So I am talking about immigrants from outside the EU. The EU leaders want to open the doors to dozens of millions of immigrants from North Africa, the Middle East and Asia in the following decades.

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