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  • Obama to send mbt's and fighters to Egypt

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-us-war-gear/

    For Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood-dominated government, more battle tanks and jet fighters are on their way from the United States.

    Cairo’s military link to Washington has remained intact, meaning the U.S. will continue to modernize the biggest military in Africa — even as President Mohammed Morsi has decreed near-absolute power for himself and his supporters and opponents battle outside his palace.
    How long before we see those arms being used against protesters? Or rolling towards Jerusalem? Looks like the days of Mubarak with an Islamic twist.
    You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

    -- Ataturk

  • #2
    Originally posted by Crackshot View Post
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-us-war-gear/



    How long before we see those arms being used against protesters? Or rolling towards Jerusalem? Looks like the days of Mubarak with an Islamic twist.
    You do know that Egypt has had US MBT's and aircraft for some time. It's not like it's just happening.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...tian_Air_Force

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipme...hting_vehicles
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

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    • #3
      Selling weapons to a government/movement/entity that may bite the hand that feeds? That only happens... All the damn time!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Castro View Post
        Selling weapons to a government/movement/entity that may bite the hand that feeds? That only happens... All the damn time!
        At least way too often.

        There should be an indefinite "Hold" on both new equipment, any equipment, and spare parts. For the next few years at least.

        Oh yeah, and no shipments of ammo and munitions as well!
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
        “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

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        • #5
          Well the US has to dump their Army surplus somewhere
          • 'If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.' Sun Tzu

          Definition of government, "an institution which prevents injustice other than such as it commits itself" by Ibn Khaldun

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          • #6
            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
            At least way too often.

            There should be an indefinite "Hold" on both new equipment, any equipment, and spare parts. For the next few years at least.

            Oh yeah, and no shipments of ammo and munitions as well!
            Just like back in the 50's, Egypt is playing both sides. We still have some small amount of sway with them. If we withhold equipment, they'll just get it from the Russians or Chinese and we won't have any influence at all. Damned if you do and damned if you don't...

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            • #7
              I think I heard on TV the other day that the Obama administration will not be known for its great international work and diplomacy. Gee, imagine that.
              "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                Just like back in the 50's, Egypt is playing both sides. We still have some small amount of sway with them. If we withhold equipment, they'll just get it from the Russians or Chinese and we won't have any influence at all. Damned if you do and damned if you don't...
                Yeah only one problem the Russians and Chinese has this thing? it's called payment in Dollars!
                • 'If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.' Sun Tzu

                Definition of government, "an institution which prevents injustice other than such as it commits itself" by Ibn Khaldun

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Crackshot View Post
                  http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-us-war-gear/



                  How long before we see those arms being used against protesters? Or rolling towards Jerusalem? Looks like the days of Mubarak with an Islamic twist.
                  Your last scentence sort of contradicts the second one. One of the reasons the US armed Mubarak (and a bunch of other local nasties) is that it gave (and gives) the US leverage. Look at how much trouble Iran had in the 80s trying to keep a US-built military running without easy access to munitions, maintenance etc from the US. 30+ years & a generation or more keeping equipment in the field in a similar situation is going to be even harder. The moment those tanks roll toward jerusalem (or probably berfore) the tap gets turned off & the operational effectiveness of that military begins to degrade. Further, the US has a very good idea just how much equipment & supples Egypt has & what state it is in.

                  As for protesters - since when did we really care about them? I'm betting there were people on ACG (& probably on this thread) who would cheerfully have watched Mubarak kill thousands to keep him in power. I doubt Morsi will be that ruthless (at this point anyways). In any case, he doesn't relaly control those tanks. The generals still do. They will use them to their own benefit.
                  Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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                  • #10
                    The reason that Egypt is buying US M1's,F-16's,Apaches and Patriot missiles is because of the peace deal between them and Israel where they and Israel get about 1.3 billion a year from the US that they can only spend on US weapons.
                    Nothing sinister is happening between Obama and Mosri just the US keeping up with their part of the peace deal agreement as long as Egypt doesn't go to war against Israel or vice versa.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                      Your last scentence sort of contradicts the second one. One of the reasons the US armed Mubarak (and a bunch of other local nasties) is that it gave (and gives) the US leverage.
                      Mubarak got equipment from the US to guarantee peace with Israel - using leverage to present him from doing something stupid/bad. The US is giving tanks to Morsi after he's done something...well, questionable to say the least. That reads less like leverage and more like acquiesces.

                      Originally posted by BF69 View Post
                      The generals still do. They will use them to their own benefit.
                      That isn't very reassuring to be honest, if Morsi can't control the generals, then why in the hell are they getting tanks?
                      You, the mothers, who sent their sons from faraway countries wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace, after having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well.

                      -- Ataturk

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                      • #12
                        Its the timing that gets to me.

                        Not once has Obama had anything to say that might inhibit Morsi and his grab for absolute power.
                        Almost as if Obama would enjoy doing the same thing himself, and would not want any of his past words thrown in his face when he does.

                        Meanwhile, he's being about as supportive of the protesting Egyptians as he was of the Greens in Iran 3 years ago.
                        Not at all.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Crackshot View Post
                          Mubarak got equipment from the US to guarantee peace with Israel - using leverage to present him from doing something stupid/bad. The US is giving tanks to Morsi after he's done something...well, questionable to say the least. That reads less like leverage and more like acquiesces.
                          See it how you want to. Numerous US administrations tolerated worse from Mubarak as long as he didn't go to war with Israel. A bunch of dead Arabs is really neither here nor there in this game. This latest transfer - no doubt on a schedule agreed some time ago - changes none of that. The guys who are going to be in charge of doing anything bad to Israel know that their toys only turn up on time & keep running properly because the US says they do. That is the very definition of 'leverage'.


                          That isn't very reassuring to be honest, if Morsi can't control the generals, then why in the hell are they getting tanks?
                          A minute ago you were worried about the tanks turning up on the streets of Cairo of jerusalem, presumabaly because there are now Islamists in charge (there are already tanks on the streets of Cairo - M60s. You don't need a new Abrams to stop a crowd). Now you are worried that the islamists don't control the tanks but the secular Army that backed Mubarak & has the most to lose from the US cutting off supplues does. So which is it?

                          The army is busy negotiating its way in an environment where it has a degree of autonomy from government but not control over it. Has it occoured to you that continuing to transfer arms might have more to do with the army maintaining its position than the actions of Morsi? There are layers within layers here and a bunch of possible scenarios & calculations.
                          Human beings are the only creatures on Earth that claim a god and the only living thing that behaves like it hasn't got one - Hunter S. Thompson

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                          • #14
                            I don't mind giving Egypt all our M60s and M41s... which then could be target practice for the Israelis.
                            The Europa Barbarorum II team [M2TW] needs YOUR HELP NOW HERE!

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                            • #15
                              Having done 2 Bright Stars I can say that Egypt can have all the dumbed down non DU Armored M1s they want. As long as they keep using them the way they do there is no real threat to a trained force. Their Company grade officers were overwhelmed and the NCOs weren't exactly instilling discipline or motivating their troops. But, they were better than Kuwaitis with their M1A2s and officers who bought their commission cause it looked fun. That's something I guess?
                              Кто там?
                              Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                              Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

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