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U.S. buys Russian choppers for Afghan military

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  • U.S. buys Russian choppers for Afghan military

    Opinions?

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37793266...shington_post/

  • #2
    $648 million for 31 Mi17's? Seems a tad on the spendy side, especially considering some are only being refurbished. Just a real quick search shows they ought to be about 1/2 that. I wonder where the rest of the money is going?

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    • #3
      It does seem a tad spendy, but it makes sense to stay with the airframe the pilots are familiar with instead of also having to create a training program from scratch for American ones. I hope it can be part of opening up cooperation to fight a common enemy - radical Islam.
      Кто там?
      Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
      Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
        It does seem a tad spendy, but it makes sense to stay with the airframe the pilots are familiar with instead of also having to create a training program from scratch for American ones. I hope it can be part of opening up cooperation to fight a common enemy - radical Islam.
        I agree with sticking with gear they're familiar with. 31 Mi-17's is significant lift capacity, and it's a proven design. I also agree that the main this is they get used correctly. Perhaps the extra is going for "training and advisory" operations.

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        • #5
          Well... they might be more familiar with it, but for me, spending a bit of time to famliarize themselves with western equipment is time well spent. If you look at it long-term, it's better if you can get them to use western equipment rather than looking somewhere else for their requirements. IMHO.
          "We have no white flag."

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          • #6
            Originally posted by GMan88 View Post
            Well... they might be more familiar with it, but for me, spending a bit of time to famliarize themselves with western equipment is time well spent. If you look at it long-term, it's better if you can get them to use western equipment rather than looking somewhere else for their requirements. IMHO.
            What makes you say that? Mil makes good choppers, and they're more readily available and less expensive then UH60's.

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            • #7
              In terms of military hardware sales. I didn't mean in terms of technical comparisons between the two sets of hardware.
              "We have no white flag."

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              • #8
                If the US is the one training and building up the force from scratch, might as well get some sales out of it. Otherwise why do all the hard chores and let somebody else pluck the fruit when it's ripe?
                "We have no white flag."

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                • #9
                  Good comments all around. Agree with familar equip even if it is a bit expensive. Any ideas on trainers for the pilot's? In-house viz already qualified Afghans and if so that can't be a hell of a lot. Russian?

                  Doubtful that a dozen or so Americans are qualified to train em. Had they been lift UH60's it would be a NETT from Rucker. Same same for Apaches. Although civilans from Boeing might have got that gig. Or the Brits and or Dutch.

                  Thunder Dome
                  Last edited by Thunder Dome; 19 Jun 10, 22:56.

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                  • #10
                    To me it makes perfect sense to use the Mi-17s.I am however concerned about that price.I did a quick search and there was a place selling them new for 9 million dollars each.The 648 million must include spare parts and the cost of training.And of course all necessary bribes.
                    ALL LIVES SPLATTER!

                    BLACK JEEPS MATTER!

                    BLACK MOTORCYCLES MATTER!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thunder Dome View Post
                      Good comments all around. Agree with familar equip even if it is a bit expensive. Any ideas on trainers for the pilot's? In-house viz already qualified Afghans and if so that can't be a hell of a lot. Russian?

                      Doubtful that a dozen or so Americans are qualified to train em. Had they been lift UH60's it would be a NETT from Rucker. Same same for Apaches. Although civilans from Boeing might have got that gig. Or the Brits and or Dutch.

                      Thunder Dome
                      There is at least one unit of the US Army that uses Mil17.

                      Boeing on the other hand is very conversant with that model, having upgraded the avionics of quite a few to US standard for civilian use.


                      kelt

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by kelt06 View Post
                        There is at least one unit of the US Army that uses Mil17.


                        Boeing on the other hand is very conversant with that model, having upgraded the avionics of quite a few to US standard for civilian use.


                        kelt

                        Can you identify it and current location? I was not aware of it.

                        I was away of the Boeing teams vice Mil17 but was in reference to
                        Apaches at that point. But you are correct, if contracted they could do it. In general though in an ongoing combat-field operations; the initial proclivity, by area commanders, is to keep the contractors out if uniformed personnel are available.

                        There presence is not entirely eliminated obviously; for as contractor reps they like to continue to maintain a presence as liaisons, reference operational dynamics and equip performance and usage reporting.

                        Thunder Dome

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Thunder Dome View Post
                          Can you identify it and current location? I was not aware of it.
                          There has been an OPFOR aviation unit at JRTC that has been operating Mi-2s, Mi-8s, Mi-17s, and Mi-24s, as well as AN-2s for years, but it is not like it is a full unit using Mi-17s in an actual real world situation or anything.
                          Кто там?
                          Это я - Почтальон Печкин!
                          Tunis is a Carthigenian city!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stryker 19K30 View Post
                            There has been an OPFOR aviation unit at JRTC that has been operating Mi-2s, Mi-8s, Mi-17s, and Mi-24s, as well as AN-2s for years, but it is not like it is a full unit using Mi-17s in an actual real world situation or anything.
                            Ah. good update. You get rep. that would probably have been then the attack-lift battalion of the 11th ACR and USAFR attachments. Forgot they were there. Well not really just didn't know they were so equipped. When i was last there they were still flying USA. Makes sense. But i rather doubt they would deploy to the 'stan' for NETT training. Otoh the Afghans might go to Irwin. Whoops we already lost track of a few of those already.

                            Thank you Though.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Thunder Dome View Post
                              Ah. good update. You get rep. that would probably have been then the attack-lift battalion of the 11th ACR and USAFR attachments. Forgot they were there. Well not really just didn't know they were so equipped. When i was last there they were still flying USA. Makes sense. But i rather doubt they would deploy to the 'stan' for NETT training. Otoh the Afghans might go to Irwin. Whoops we already lost track of a few of those already.

                              Thank you Though.
                              JRTC has been operating Sov stuff for a while now. An Mi24 scared the hell out of me in 1991 while I was there and my understanding is that it had been around for a bit prior to that. They also have some actual soviet armor other than the vis-mod stuff made out of hummers adn M551's. NTC at Fort Irwin has the same kind of thing.

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