Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Indian, Chinese troops clash near Naku La in Sikkim sector

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post

    From your indiatimes.com link: Paragraph stating the Pakistan is apparently laying the groundwork for making the claim that India will create a "false flag" attack.

    excerpt

    Sharma Oli might be doing it at China’s “behest”. He was right. Indian security establishment is also prepping for an unexpected attack by Pakistan from the west, perhaps in the form of another terror strike. Pakistan PM Imran Khan’s tweet, claiming India would carry out a “false flag” attack and blame Pakistan did not go unnoticed.


    Read more at:
    https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...campaign=cppst


    Indian strategic thinking in Prime Minister Modi's time is totally Pakistan centric.

    Indian's want to retake Pakistani occupied Kashmir. Or at least are the noises they are making. Recently India started providing up to date wether reports for the benefit of the people of occupied areas. Causing great heart burn in Pakistan.

    Pakistan occupied Kashmir has Chinese strategically important Arm of the New Silk road, The road link to Gwadar some 1100 k.m. road and Rail link between Kashgar Southern Xinjiang Railway and Karachi .

    Ambitious plan, with Chinese Navy having a port in the corner of middle East and a capacity to ship goods only by 1100 k.m. rail & road link to central & Western China can bring about economic development and revolution in less developed central & Western China.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chin...nomic_Corridor

    Indian if they will capture Pakistan occupied Kashmir will certainly allow Chinese to ship goods, but subject to Indian conditions, India would also prefer to connect to Afghanistan and central Asia through reconquered parts of Kashmir. Indian may insist to China to give back annexed territories and should accept the International treaty border line Mac Mohan line.

    Chinese are doing this to corner India allow Pakistan to step up attacks.

    Will Taliban joins them is yet to be seen.

    Imran Khan has no real power, he is puppet of Pakistan Army. If he is already blaming India, and talking of falls flag attacks, then certainly a big terrorist incident we can expect.

    According to Pakistan 9/11 and all terror attacks in West were done by Jews Hindus, and we're falls flag attack.

    Famous Pakistani Politician who was earlier Journalist pointed out about Pakistani's :
    . In his journalism days, Mushahid Hussain used to famously say, “We are the greatest conspiracy theorists east of the Suez.” The journalist-turned-politician had a point.

    On September 19, 2001, Nawa-i-Waqt published a front page story stating that 4,000 Israelis skipped work at the World Trade Center on 9/11. The story had been lifted from an obscure Middle Eastern newspaper called Al-Watan. Later, these 4,000 Israelis were turned into 4,000 Jews. Ostensibly, it was done to make the story more plausible.

    Lt Gen Abdul Qayyum, the then chairman of the Pakistan Ordnance Factories Board, made his immense contribution to the raging debate by saying that 9/11 was a conspiracy by Hindus and Jews.
    https://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/201...eories-galore/

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
      Link to and excerpts from Wikipedia article are below. I must say I don't envy them: landlocked, with only two neighbors, China and India. Larger population than I thought at about 29,000,000, area of about 56,000 square miles (similar to Illinois). In an even worse position than Poland was historically, being between Germany and Russia: Poland was relatively much larger, relative to the other two powers, Poland had ocean access, and bordered other countries (kind of).

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nepal

      excerpt 1

      Nepal (Nepali: नेपाल [neˈpal]), officially the Federal Democratic Republic of Nepal,[14] is a country in South Asia. It is located mainly in the Himalayas, but also includes parts of the Indo-Gangetic Plain. It is the 49th largest country by population and 93rd largest country by area. It is landlocked, and borders China in the north and India in the south, east and west, while Bangladesh is located within only 27 km (17 mi) of its southeastern tip and Bhutan is separated from it by the Indian state of Sikkim. Nepal has a diverse geography, including fertile plains, subalpine forested hills, and eight of the world's ten tallest mountains, including Mount Everest, the highest point on Earth. Kathmandu is the capital and the largest city. Nepal is a multiethnic country with Nepali as the official language.

      excerpt 2

      Nepal pursues a policy of "balanced relations" with the two giant immediate neighbours, India and China;[141][142] the 1950 Treaty of Peace and Friendship with India provides for a much closer relationship.[143] Nepal and India share an open border with free movement of people, religious, cultural and marital ties. India is Nepal's largest trading partner, which it depends upon for all of its oil and gas, and a number of essential goods. Nepalis can own property in India, while Indians are free to live and work in Nepal.[144] Relations between India and Nepal, though very close, is "fraught with difficulties stemming from geography, economics, the problems inherent in big power-small power relations, and common ethnic, linguistic and cultural identities that overlap the two countries' borders".[145] Nepal established diplomatic relations with the People's Republic of China on 1 August 1955, and signed the Treaty of Peace and Friendship in 1960; relations since have been based on the Five Principles of Peaceful Coexistence. Nepal maintains neutrality in conflicts between China and India. It remains firmly committed to the One China Policy, and is known to curb anti-China activities from the Tibetan refugees in Nepal.[146][147] Citizens of both countries can cross the border and travel as far as 30 km without a visa.[148] China is viewed favourably in Nepal owing to the absence of any border disputes or serious interference in internal politics, coupled with its assistance in infrastructure development and aid during emergencies; favourability has increased since China helped Nepal during the 2015 economic blockade imposed by India.[149] Subsequently, China granted Nepal access to its ports for third-country trade, and Nepal joined China's ambitious Belt and Road Initiative.[150]
      Nepal was the only Hindu Nation in the world.

      The overthrow of Monarchy was perhaps out come of Chinese Communist and Nepali Communist Party conspiracy.

      Hindu Nationalist BJP and RSS held Nepal as Hindu Rashtra ( Nation ) in very high esteem.

      Our Socialist minded Congress Party conspired against the Monarchy. Causing them to become friendly with Chinese and Pakistani.

      Now Nepal has become safe heaven of Intelligence and terror operatives . The 1700 k.m. open border allows these people to sneak in and out of India.

      No sane politician or Diplomat will think of spoiling relationship with Nepal. It's the Nepal Maoist and People's Republic of China with Pakistan, who are deliberately destroying the Nepal - India Relationship.

      Comment


      • #33

        ​​​​Al Jazeera take on situation.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Pruitt View Post
          Sooner or later Indian politicians will take border defense seriously and improve the road network going into the area.

          Pruitt
          Since 1962, Indian Army on various occasion handled the Chinese Aggression nicely.

          Politician were also slowly but reacted properly.

          1967-clash-Defence-publication-696x464.jpg

          1967 Stand off.

          https://theprint.in/opinion/how-the-...hina/9759/?amp

          1984 stand off.

          https://www.thequint.com/voices/opin...na-by-surprise


          Our slow but steady infrastructure development is causing problem with Chinese.

          https://m.timesofindia.com/india/ind...w/76022159.cms

          Comment


          • #35
            President Xi tells military to ‘concentrate preparation for fighting a war’

            Very Large quantity of Pork has been purchased by China enough to last for 3-4 years.

            Where it will strike India or Taiwan.????

            https://www.news.com.au/technology/i...b925cbba1fda9b



            I think Indian's will wait for Chinese to fire first.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post

              From your indiatimes.com link: Paragraph stating the Pakistan is apparently laying the groundwork for making the claim that India will create a "false flag" attack.

              excerpt

              Sharma Oli might be doing it at China’s “behest”. He was right. Indian security establishment is also prepping for an unexpected attack by Pakistan from the west, perhaps in the form of another terror strike. Pakistan PM Imran Khan’s tweet, claiming India would carry out a “false flag” attack and blame Pakistan did not go unnoticed.


              Read more at:
              https://economictimes.indiatimes.com...campaign=cppst
              Last year Pakistani sponsored terrorist attacked using explosive laden car a Bus carrying soldiers.

              Causing Death of 40 Soldiers,

              To Avange we conducted across the border raid in Pakistan, killing Terrorist and their Pakistan Army ISI Trainer's.

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Pulwama_attack

              This year a similar attack was foiled, the explosive laden Car was stopped, the terrorist manged to escape, but the Car was destroyed.

              due to possiblity of late action multiple fail safe machenism Vehicle was destroyed by bomb disposal squad.



              Wonderful co ordination between, Chinese and Pakistani forces.

              This was the attack, Pakistani P.M. was speaking about,
              They design it to shift Indian Public opinion from China to Pakistan front.


              Comment


              • #37
                As the built up of Indian and Chinese forces increased the tension.

                This unconfirmed and undated Video, shows the fierce mood and seem casualties are taking place, but neither side accepting it.



                Very unfortunate at this time of Corona crisis.



                One wounded Chinese Soldiers in bondage.

                And one Chinese version Humvee is seen.

                Very difficult to tell about the kind of Regiment or Battalion, because troops are not wearing Insignia.

                Quite probably Para military.
                Last edited by vikram72; 31 May 20, 23:05.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Chinese Army is sending big troop numbers, without Arm's. With banners.

                  So Indian side is also keeping Arm's away.

                  China stock piling up heavy Armor Artillery and troops carrying vehicles. According to media reports.

                  ​​​​​​another unconfirmed video.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    From The Diplomat - "What to Make of India and China's Latest Border Clash"

                    Link below, excerpts follow

                    https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/what...-border-clash/

                    excerpt 1


                    However, the number of confrontations on the Sino-Indian border seem to be intensifying. In June 2017, Indian Army executed “Operation Juniper” and positioned 270 armed troops in the Doklam area of Bhutan. This mobilization was intended to deter a team of Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers from constructing a road that would have given the Chinese access to Indian territory. The road would have circumvented Indian posts in Dokala, and provided the Chinese access to Jampheri Ridge and a clear line of sight to the narrow Siliguri Corridor. The Corridor is commonly referred to as the “chicken’s neck” as it vitally connects seven states in India’s northeast to the rest of India. The Doklam standoff brought both armies face-to-face, leading to a tense 73-day military stand-off. Eventually, the Chinese decided to back down and halt their road preparations, though without abandoning their claim to the territory.

                    Understood within the larger scope of bilateral ties, these measures signal an incremental deterioration in bilateral ties and the emergence of an enduring rivalry. In light of China setting up a military base in Djibouti, increasing its operations in the Indian Ocean Region, increasingly interfering in border states such as Nepal and Bhutan, and deepening its ties with Pakistan through the Belt and Road Initiative, India has ramped up its emphasis on deterrence and the need to signal “resolve.” A report titled “Looking Beyond Doklam” published by the Centre for Joint War Studies, a think-tank set up under India’s Defense Ministry, notes that in response to China’s growing assertiveness and aggression, peace on the Sino-Indian border will constantly remain under stress, “with increase in intensity, frequency and depth of transgressions.” Moving forward, Doklam was likely to be the new normal.

                    excerpt 2

                    In terms of their border dispute, India and China are struggling with what game theorists refer to as a “commitment problem.” A commitment problem arises when two states, who would be better off in the present if they consented to a mutually beneficial agreement, are unable to resolve their disputes due to different expectations of future strengths, and a consequent inability to commit to future bargaining power or a division of benefits. Simply put, if “rising” India assumes that its material power and leverage vis-ą-vis China is likely to improve over time, it has no incentive to accept China’s “benign hegemony” and to accept a negotiated settlement at a time when it cannot realize the advantages of this increased leverage. This is also true in China’s case, as it too expects to increase its material strength and cement its superpower status in the coming decades. This could create a reasonable expectation of being able to exact greater concessions from India in the future. A status quo agreement thus, that seeks to formalize the existing LAC becomes difficult to accept.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                      From The Diplomat - "What to Make of India and China's Latest Border Clash"

                      Link below, excerpts follow

                      https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/what...-border-clash/

                      excerpt 1


                      However, the number of confrontations on the Sino-Indian border seem to be intensifying. In June 2017, Indian Army executed “Operation Juniper” and positioned 270 armed troops in the Doklam area of Bhutan. This mobilization was intended to deter a team of Chinese People’s Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers from constructing a road that would have given the Chinese access to Indian territory. The road would have circumvented Indian posts in Dokala, and provided the Chinese access to Jampheri Ridge and a clear line of sight to the narrow Siliguri Corridor. The Corridor is commonly referred to as the “chicken’s neck” as it vitally connects seven states in India’s northeast to the rest of India. The Doklam standoff brought both armies face-to-face, leading to a tense 73-day military stand-off. Eventually, the Chinese decided to back down and halt their road preparations, though without abandoning their claim to the territory.

                      Understood within the larger scope of bilateral ties, these measures signal an incremental deterioration in bilateral ties and the emergence of an enduring rivalry. In light of China setting up a military base in Djibouti, increasing its operations in the Indian Ocean Region, increasingly interfering in border states such as Nepal and Bhutan, and deepening its ties with Pakistan through the Belt and Road Initiative, India has ramped up its emphasis on deterrence and the need to signal “resolve.” A report titled “Looking Beyond Doklam” published by the Centre for Joint War Studies, a think-tank set up under India’s Defense Ministry, notes that in response to China’s growing assertiveness and aggression, peace on the Sino-Indian border will constantly remain under stress, “with increase in intensity, frequency and depth of transgressions.” Moving forward, Doklam was likely to be the new normal.

                      excerpt 2

                      In terms of their border dispute, India and China are struggling with what game theorists refer to as a “commitment problem.” A commitment problem arises when two states, who would be better off in the present if they consented to a mutually beneficial agreement, are unable to resolve their disputes due to different expectations of future strengths, and a consequent inability to commit to future bargaining power or a division of benefits. Simply put, if “rising” India assumes that its material power and leverage vis-ą-vis China is likely to improve over time, it has no incentive to accept China’s “benign hegemony” and to accept a negotiated settlement at a time when it cannot realize the advantages of this increased leverage. This is also true in China’s case, as it too expects to increase its material strength and cement its superpower status in the coming decades. This could create a reasonable expectation of being able to exact greater concessions from India in the future. A status quo agreement thus, that seeks to formalize the existing LAC becomes difficult to accept.

                      I had tried to explain Doklam. In earlier posts.

                      China is constantly changing it's position on LAC.

                      They are not ready for simple exchange of maps stating each other's claim.

                      Because Chinese want to push constantly towards annexing more and more territories of India.
                      ​​​​​
                      Since 2002 there has been no progress.

                      Here is the 2019 situation :

                      New Delhi and Beijing exchanged maps of the middle sector as far back as March 2002, but there has been no movement since then.

                      The 22nd dialogue of the Special Representatives (SR) on the boundary issue between national security adviser Ajit Doval and state councillor Wang Yi in New Delhi on December 21 ended with both sides committed to maintaining peace and tranquillity along the 3,488-km Line of Actual Control (LAC).

                      While the Chinese statement on the talks said the two sides should “promote early harvest consultations”, there was no mention of such proposals in the statement from the Indian side.


                      https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...f9oBXJZuL.html

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        India in my opinion should not follow Chinese wishes. As old boundary India shared was with Kingdom of Tibet.

                        Being a Religious state both India and China respected it, till Communist came marching.

                        PRC rejects the Shimla Agreement with British India, Tibet and China.

                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simla_Convention

                        Why should India talk to China in First place ??

                        When already PRC has broken Panchsheel Accord with India in 1962.

                        China has no word of Honor.

                        Chinese knowing that Indian's were peace loving idiots, who dream of bringing peace to world, can be made fool by giving them the promises of Non Aggression.

                        When Chinese President Xi Jinping met Prime Minister Narendra Modi on the sidelines of the BRICS summit in China's Xiamen on Tuesday, he expressed a desire to work with India within the five principles of Panchsheel, or the Five Principles of Peaceful Co-Existence, a treaty signed between Jawaharlal Nehru and Premier Zhou Enlai to bring peace to the post-colonial sub-continent over sixty years ago.

                        "China is prepared to work with India to seek guidance, with the five principles of Panchsheel," the Chinese President said, during a bilateral meet with Modi.

                        Nehru and Zhou signed the treaty on 29 April 1954 to lay the roadmap for stability in a region torn by wars for independence, bloody migrations, and religious rioting.

                        Its preamble states:

                        1. Mutual respect for each other's territorial integrity and sovereignty

                        2. Mutual non-aggression

                        3. Mutual non-interference

                        4. Equality and mutual benefit

                        5. Peaceful co-existence

                        It was unanimously adopted on 11 December 1957 by the United Nations General Assembly.


                        "Panchsheel was developed in the context of a post-colonial world where many were seeking an alternative ideology dedicated to peace and development of all," a government document celebrating the 50th anniversary of the treaty states.
                        https://m.huffingtonpost.in/2017/09/...ty_a_23197081/

                        All Chinese wanted to is let India lay down it's guard.

                        The holy Buddhist Principal of Panchsheel as basis for mutual peaceful co existence.
                        The Five precepts (Sanskrit: pańcaśīla, Pali: pańcasīla);
                        or five rules of training
                        (Sanskrit: pańcaśikṣapada,
                        Pali: pańcasikkhapada; [4][5])[note 1] is the most important system of morality for Buddhist lay people. They constitute the basic code of ethics to be undertaken by lay followers of Buddhism. The precepts are commitments to abstain from killing living beings, stealing, sexual misconduct, lying and intoxication. Within the Buddhist doctrine, they are meant to develop mind and character to make progress on the path to enlightenment.
                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_precepts

                        Indian's were euphoric,
                        ​​​​​​ Chinese told them we are Asian Brothers.

                        Chinese gave slogan :

                        Hindi - Chini Bhai Bhai,
                        Meaning Indian's and Chinese are brothers.

                        The Panchsheel was inducted in School and college curriculum.

                        When China attacked, we had only 4 heavy machine guns on whole 3500 k.m. long border.

                        Only Lee Enfield 303° rifle with only 50 Cartridges to fight the starting of War.

                        Very small numbers of Troops. Around 12000 - 15000 including police and Home Guards to defend 3500 k.m. border.


                        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War

                        Earlier warnings by Indian Army officers like
                        Gen. S.P.P.Thorat were ignored.

                        US was better informed than our Prime Minister Jawahar Lal Nehru. President Kennedy was great help to us.

                        https://swarajyamag.com/world/1962-t...tiative-of-jfk

                        Every body has warmed Indian Leadership.

                        My favorite Gen. De Gaulle, has said of Panchsheel to one Indian Diplomat.

                        " How can Nehru, a great Historian can commit such blunder, how can he trust Chinese"

                        Apparently Gen De Gaulle had read the Historical works of Nehru,

                        The Map of Holy Kingdom of Tibet. Around 1900.

                        Good maps are missing from Google,
                        Chinese sensorship perhaps.


                        southasia19140703.png

                        images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSat03opx3EiSotE1z1QDbIu4SfUum9XycTEQFjA1Hwe286dqxm&usqp=CAU.jpg

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Maps aren't going to do it. They are playing a long game. India will have to build roads, forward bases, etc. Make China spend money. And India can challenge them in the Indian Ocean. And make their air force work - the Indian air force should occasionally fly towards the frontier to make them turn their radars on, etc. And it goes without saying if they fly towards India, they must be confronted.

                          Other countries can do likewise.

                          The US can beat them in space - Where they won't be able to win an arms race.

                          The US can maintain absolute supremacy under the oceans - the Chinese can't compete there.

                          Japan can use its vast financial resources and more capable industrial base to to challenge them locally on the sea and in the air.

                          Russia acting as to maximize its benefit as they see it, will challenge China along their huge land border. And in space if necessary. Russia and the US have air supremacy over China, no matter what they say in public.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                            Maps aren't going to do it. They are playing a long game. India will have to build roads, forward bases, etc. Make China spend money. And India can challenge them in the Indian Ocean. And make their air force work - the Indian air force should occasionally fly towards the frontier to make them turn their radars on, etc. And it goes without saying if they fly towards India, they must be confronted.

                            Other countries can do likewise.

                            The US can beat them in space - Where they won't be able to win an arms race.

                            The US can maintain absolute supremacy under the oceans - the Chinese can't compete there.

                            Japan can use its vast financial resources and more capable industrial base to to challenge them locally on the sea and in the air.

                            Russia acting as to maximize its benefit as they see it, will challenge China along their huge land border. And in space if necessary. Russia and the US have air supremacy over China, no matter what they say in public.
                            Our Air Force is watching them.

                            Last time one of their helicopter had came inside our Territory. It tried to come very near to our helicopter. Our Air Force then scrambled fighters.

                            Our Defense Minister has accepted on record, that substantial numbers of Chinese Army Build up is taking place.

                            Indians are mirroring their deployments.

                            India and China has machenism to resolve conflict, according to it, Let.General from both sides to start negotiation this week.


                            Comment


                            • #44
                              The Chinese are starting to feel the pressure. The Philippines have decided to keep in place an agreement to allow US forces on its soil. This may also help to explain the withdrawal of full-time bombers from Guam. The US will at least for now have access to the old Subic Bay Naval Base and the old Clark Air Force Base sites. These used to be the largest US overseas bases.

                              to India for standing up to the Chinese!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                                The Chinese are starting to feel the pressure. The Philippines have decided to keep in place an agreement to allow US forces on its soil. This may also help to explain the withdrawal of full-time bombers from Guam. The US will at least for now have access to the old Subic Bay Naval Base and the old Clark Air Force Base sites. These used to be the largest US overseas bases.

                                to India for standing up to the Chinese!
                                Philippines is certainly a good news.



                                We always stand for good cause.

                                All eye's in India on 6th June conference of Top commander's conference.
                                Last edited by vikram72; 03 Jun 20, 12:55.

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X