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  • #31
    Originally posted by vikram72 View Post
    View: I'm no more an outsider in Kashmir.


    Kashmir

    With its diversity of ethnicities and religious communities, Jammu and Kashmir has been nothing but a microcosm of plural India.

    After circumambulating thrice around the tomb of the saint, on our way out of the Sufi shrine, three thumps on the wooden carved window were necessary for all wishes to come true.

    Like most Hindu and Muslim shrine-goers in Kashmir, mother believed it. Every Thursday evening, she would take us to the shrine, lift my sister and me in her arms so that our hands could reach the shut window. As children, we gleefully knocked.

    That was during and till the early 1980s when Kashmiris —Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs — prayed and lived peacefully in shared spaces.

    https://m.economictimes.com/news/pol...​​
    Its not that strange that you love sufis. Actually, after muslim conqeust of that region took place, many indian pagan elements and hindu philosophies were introduced to muslims ,and sufis are nothing but product of that. They re close to you.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Daud View Post
      So, Vikram, will you push ritch indians from another part of country to buy properties in Jammu in order to change demographic or what ?

      Why dont you stick to the resolution ?


      No Sir.

      Exodus of Non Muslims from Kashmir Valley since 1949, resulted in displacement of approximately 2 - 3 million people as on today.

      They may choose to return back. Their properties are under illegal occupation of Kashmiri Muslims.

      Unlike Israel in India Hindus and Muslims live in same neighbourhood, they are next-door neighbours.

      First the encrochers has to vacate properties or purchase them at Government rate.

      The Jihadist are only 3 - 5 % of population rest are Sufi / Barelvi / moderate Muslims,

      Now if local Muslim population will allow peaceful reassimilation it will become just like any other Indian state as it was in the Past.

      Now the expelled people were soft targets.

      From last thousands of years Indian communities are divided on fault line of castes.
      Castes are based on Occupations.

      The expelled once were from peaceful Scholars / Priestley Castes.

      Now people from Warrior's Castes, can migrate can purchase the farm lands. They are hard nuts to crack as British found out. British made splendid use of them in Wars all around the world.

      Indians Republic allows Afghans, Gorkhas, and citizens of Tibet to have permanent residence in India. There are lots of Gorkhas already in Kashmir.

      As it is expected that Jihadist will fight bitterly .The Hindu Nationalist BJP may take few steps like the State of Israel.

      Now as we are not Banana Republic, the last battle left is Legal one.

      The Government move is challenged in our Supreme Court. More then 6 -8 petitions are pending before Supreme Court . One Filed by Ex Generals, Air Marshall senior veterans. Another by main opposition parties.

      The Article 370 was termed temporary in 1954 because we were expecting Pakistan to vacate Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. As per UN Resolution .

      In one section of Article 370 of our Constitution there is one clause that Gives President of Republic of India the power to repeal or dilute , or render few parts of it null and void. The remaining safe and harmless sections and sub section remains in existence in Toto.

      So I feel the move by Government will sail through Supreme Court easily.

      -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      The UN Resolution

      The United Nations Security Council Resolution 47, adopted on 21 April 1948, concerns the resolution of the Kashmir conflict. After hearing arguments from both India and Pakistan, the Council increased the size of the Commission established by United Nations Security Council Resolution 39 to five members (with representatives of Argentina, Belgium, Colombia, Czechoslovakia and the United States[1]), instructed the Commission to go to the subcontinent and help the governments of India and Pakistan restore peace and order to the region and prepare for a plebiscite to decide the fate of Kashmir.
      the Resolution recommended a three-step process for the resolution of the dispute.

      In the first step, Pakistan was asked to withdraw all its nationals that entered Kashmir for the sake of fighting.

      In the second step, India was asked to progressively reduce its forces to the minimum level required for law and order.

      In the third step, India was asked to appoint a plebiscite administrator nominated by the United Nations who would conduct a free and impartial plebiscite.
      See now in 70+ years our lovely blood thirsty neighbour has not only changed the demography also annexed Gilgit - Baltistan also gifted One fourth of Kashmir to People's Republic of China.

      So see Pakistan it self has killed the UN Resolution .

      If they will vacate Pok and have China Vacate we can have plebiscite.

      My recommendation is to have plebiscite once reffered areas are vacated by Pakistan and China. Those willing to live in Democratic Secular Republic of India will remain in India, those want to live in Pakistan can go to Pakistan.

      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit..._Resolution_47
      Last edited by vikram72; 21 Aug 19, 01:15.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post

        That's the only way to do it really.

        Simply replace the current population with "colonists " old European style, recreate the place in your own image.

        Seen in that context "the Israel scenario" isn't a bad one, possibly the only one proven to work - historically IF properly supported.

        Usually the colonists are "poor" and subsidized somehow, not "rich", since the rich obviously have no incentive to become colonists, they play the financial support part.
        even if the expelled once are allowed to return peacefully the nature of problem will change.

        Indian Hindu Nationalist sing praise of Israeli tactics .

        If Pakistan will counties to send Armed Zihadi terrorist them we are going to see hard and prolonged bitter fight. Certainly little different from Israel - Arab conflict.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Daud View Post

          Liking post that describes colonisation really showed your intention and opinion on this matter, so stop hiding.


          Its obvious that indian propaganda want to scare the world with Scharia spider and anti-chtistian sentiment.

          Noone cares what majority of indians want, important is what the locals want, what people of Jammu and Kashmir want ! You want to implement a terror of the majority. Thats why article 370 is very important . Jammu must remain autonomus region.

          Peoole of Jammu must be protected, and they will be. T
          No body is hiding.

          come visit India. Delhi , Ajmer, Agara, see how Hindus and Muslims live together.

          Jihadist and their apologist are angry because second largest Muslim community in the world is living peacefully with non Muslims in India.

          I like any post because if i feel that there are merits in post.

          I also try to explain the situation in my words as usually respond to posts.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Daud View Post

            Its not that strange that you love sufis. Actually, after muslim conqeust of that region took place, many indian pagan elements and hindu philosophies were introduced to muslims ,and sufis are nothing but product of that. They re close to you.
            Sufis are only the true Muslims.

            Rest are Imposters.

            Wahabi / Deobandi are pseudo Muslims .

            My family adhere to teachings our Spiritual Master's who are from mixed Sufi - Hindu lineage.

            I love Sufis and Sufism.

            Become a Sufi your soul will be saved. You will understand true message of Islam and Spirituality.

            You will understand the Pseudo Jihadist Islam is work of Devil.

            God only speaks of love not hatred.

            God is giver of life , wisdom.
            not taker of life as depicted by Jihadists.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism_in_India

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sufism

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by vikram72 View Post

              No body is hiding.

              come visit India. Delhi , Ajmer, Agara, see how Hindus and Muslims live together.

              Jihadist and their apologist are angry because second largest Muslim community in the world is living peacefully with non Muslims in India.

              I like any post because if i feel that there are merits in post.

              I also try to explain the situation in my words as usually respond to posts.
              Lets leave my visit to India for better times. Now hinduva wild hunt is prosecuting and killing people

              https://youtu.be/eyy0l4Bom0o

              You'll find plenty cases online. Everybody has extreme groups and you too are not spared of it. Modis government is on its way of making hindutva Marathan state.


              Its not the heaven you re portraying Vikram:

              https://youtu.be/n_k9bXq9uGs
              Last edited by Daud; 21 Aug 19, 08:14.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by vikram72 View Post

                Sufis are only the true Muslims.

                Rest are Imposters.

                Wahabi / Deobandi are pseudo Muslims .

                My family adhere to teachings our Spiritual Master's who are from mixed Sufi - Hindu lineage.

                I love Sufis and Sufism.

                Become a Sufi your soul will be saved. You will understand true message of Islam and Spirituality.

                You will understand the Pseudo Jihadist Islam is work of Devil.

                God only speaks of love not hatred.

                God is giver of life , wisdom.
                not taker of life as depicted by Jihadists.

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism_in_India

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Sufism
                There is more to chose then 2 extreme sides. Sime Pseudo-salafis are extreme but Sufis are extreme too, just in opposite way.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Daud View Post

                  Lets leave my visit to India for better times. Now hinduva wild hunt is prosecuting and killing people

                  https://youtu.be/eyy0l4Bom0o

                  You'll find plenty cases online. Everybody has extreme groups and you too are not spared of it. Modis government is on its way of making hindutva Marathan state.


                  Its not the heaven you re portraying Vikram:

                  https://youtu.be/n_k9bXq9uGs
                  Resurgence of Hinduism and Hindutva is a measured response to 73 years of Jihadist attacks from Pakistan and around the world.
                  Jihadist has given Islam the bad word.

                  Muslims of Kashmir were successful in expelling millions of non Muslims from Kashmir. Now the Jihadi elements want to creat riots, spread distress.

                  So far the Indian response was very measured and balanced.

                  Unlike Muslim states who have expelled Jews Yazdis Armenians. Our Citizens have rights.

                  Terrorists don't have human rights.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Daud View Post

                    There is more to chose then 2 extreme sides. Sime Pseudo-salafis are extreme but Sufis are extreme too, just in opposite way.
                    Only peace loving Sufis are true being, rest are handy work of Devil.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by vikram72 View Post

                      Resurgence of Hinduism and Hindutva is a measured response to 73 years of Jihadist attacks from Pakistan and around the world.
                      Jihadist has given Islam the bad word.

                      Muslims of Kashmir were successful in expelling millions of non Muslims from Kashmir. Now the Jihadi elements want to creat riots, spread distress.

                      So far the Indian response was very measured and balanced.

                      Unlike Muslim states who have expelled Jews Yazdis Armenians. Our Citizens have rights.

                      Terrorists don't have human rights.
                      I dint like to speak with people who are not objective and who show tendencies.

                      How much people were killed in pogroms in India prior to pakistani/ Bangladesh independence ?

                      Which muslim states expelled jews ? Jews took protection among muslims throughout history, its a fact.


                      You re not objective, and you lie. From now on i ll ignore you.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Daud View Post

                        I dint like to speak with people who are not objective and who show tendencies.

                        How much people were killed in pogroms in India prior to pakistani/ Bangladesh independence ?

                        Which muslim states expelled jews ? Jews took protection among muslims throughout history, its a fact.


                        You re not objective, and you lie. From now on i ll ignore you.
                        Millions of Non Muslims were killed by Muslims since onset of Jihadist Islam.

                        Spiritual legacy of Great Abrahamic Religions Judaism and Christianity is safe with Sufism.

                        Pesuedo Jihadist Religion is handy work of Devil.

                        God wants its children to live in peace and happy co - existence.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          vikram72,

                          The Islamic values of Jihad derive from Jewish Holy war found in the Torah. Groups like AQ, ISIL and Boko haram are not following Islam properly and these groups have no standing worldwide in the modern times such groups are just about unheard of. Islam, Judasim, Jewish and Islamic Holy war are a part of history.

                          Btw your own country India, in 1975 voted in the UN to view Zionism as being the same as racism. India and Pakistan stood together in 1975 in condemning Zionism as being the same as racism.


                          While race is not a real topic IMO in other words I think all humans are one and we are not races. But my point is that India stood with Pakistan in criticizing Israel. And masses of Jewish Soviets served the USSR in WW2, they had rifles and they did not need a Jewish state. Some Zionists through history were bigots. To this day there are many more Jews not living in Israel then Jews living in Israel.

                          The problem in our world is not related to religion but bigotry and corruption which is found worldwide.

                          India should not be like modern day Israel or Saudi Arabia for that matter. The many Israels, Palestinians, Indians and Pakistanis that reject Gov enforced tolerance are the people to look up to in these types of threads. The Gov of Israel and Palestine is by its own laws corrupt and intolerant and vikram I stand with the Hindus of the world that stand against intolerance.
                          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                          George S Patton

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                            vikram72,

                            The Islamic values of Jihad derive from Jewish Holy war found in the Torah. Groups like AQ, ISIL and Boko haram are not following Islam properly and these groups have no standing worldwide in the modern times such groups are just about unheard of. Islam, Judasim, Jewish and Islamic Holy war are a part of history..
                            Honestly do you also feel that Holocaust was creation of Judaism ?

                            Do you blame Jews for Climate change or 9/11.

                            Btw your own country India, in 1975 voted in the UN to view Zionism as being the same as racism. India and Pakistan stood together in 1975 in condemning Zionism as being the same as racism.
                            That was big mistake

                            While race is not a real topic IMO in other words I think all humans are one and we are not races. But my point is that India stood with Pakistan in criticizing Israel. And masses of Jewish Soviets served the USSR in WW2, they had rifles and they did not need a Jewish state. Some Zionists through history were bigots. To this day there are many more Jews not living in Israel then Jews living in Israel.

                            The problem in our world is not related to religion but bigotry and corruption which is found worldwide.

                            India should not be like modern day Israel or Saudi Arabia for that matter. The many Israels, Palestinians, Indians and Pakistanis that reject Gov enforced tolerance are the people to look up to in these types of threads. The Gov of Israel and Palestine is by its own laws corrupt and intolerant and vikram I stand with the Hindus of the world that stand against intolerance
                            You know more than 2 million Christian were forced to convert to Islam in Pakistan.

                            Arab Citizens are more safe in Israel than Jewish people living in Islamic countries.

                            There are hardly any because all had been forcibly expelled.

                            If Muslims can have homeland like Pakistan and Bangladesh,

                            Why not Jew's exclusive privileged over holy lands. After all they deserve it.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by vikram72 View Post

                              Honestly do you also feel that Holocaust was creation of Judaism ?

                              Do you blame Jews for Climate change or 9/11.



                              That was big mistake



                              You know more than 2 million Christian were forced to convert to Islam in Pakistan.

                              Arab Citizens are more safe in Israel than Jewish people living in Islamic countries.

                              There are hardly any because all had been forcibly expelled.

                              If Muslims can have homeland like Pakistan and Bangladesh,

                              Why not Jew's exclusive privileged over holy lands. After all they deserve it.
                              Im one of the most liberal posters here my friend. The Reich committed the Holocaust. AQ commited 9/11.


                              Well India and Pakistan once stood together in condemning Israel as a so called racist state that was the Indian and Pakistan Gov not the USA.



                              Christians are half of Lebanon, and Christians have equal rights in Turkey and Albania two Muslim majority countries. Israel like a # of Muslim majority countries has unequal laws and thats why a Israel like scenario is unacceptable for anyone.
                              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                              George S Patton

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                                Christians are half of Lebanon, and Christians have equal rights in Turkey and Albania two Muslim majority countries. Israel like a # of Muslim majority countries has unequal laws and thats why a Israel like scenario is unacceptable for anyone.
                                What about other 52 or so Islamic countries?

                                what about forced conversions of Christians and Hindu Girls in Pakistan.

                                Blasphemy Judicial killing in Pakistan.

                                Turks are neither European nor middle eastern. A community without proper identity.

                                it did better unter Ataturk now behaviour wise Just like any other Muslim Autocratic country .

                                You claim to be Christian,

                                why you hate Jews so much ??

                                Comment

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