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  • Terrorists take Russian school children hostage

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe...ool/index.html

    WTF!
    "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tim McBride
    A new low has been reached.
    ...the troops of love are pulling out... (D.A.D.)

    Comment


    • #3
      Now, now,...let's not be too harsh on these guys. They're the type of people Senator John Kerry would coddle and deal with if he was our president! Terrorists are people too, you know!


      REALITY CHECK!!
      These people need to be dealt with in the manner which they understand - brute force. The reality is that they are either:

      1. Taken down quickly with extreme prejudice and a few innocents MIGHT get injured or even killed

      2. They end up killing most or all of the hostages when they are denied recognition and told to go screw a monkey.

      3. They are massaged, their demands are met, and they are given legitimacy so that others might recognize terror as an effective tactic to steal what they want.

      or the worst:

      4. They kill everyone, including themselves, and the government of the innocent population STILL gives in even AFTER the incident is over!

      Thanks for nothing, Spain et al.

      Comment


      • #4
        I kinda agree Curt, but I'm with rasmus on this one. NEVER EVER TOUCH CHILDREN
        "Always behave like a duck -- keep calm and unruffled on the surface but paddle like the devil underneath."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tim McBride
          Well, this should go a long way to win International support for the perpetrators, NOT!
          [Official Game Thread] "To the Berezina River" Napoleonic Game

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CPangracs
            Now, now,...let's not be too harsh on these guys. They're the type of people Senator John Kerry would coddle and deal with if he was our president! Terrorists are people too, you know!


            REALITY CHECK!!
            These people need to be dealt with in the manner which they understand - brute force. The reality is that they are either:

            1. Taken down quickly with extreme prejudice and a few innocents MIGHT get injured or even killed

            2. They end up killing most or all of the hostages when they are denied recognition and told to go screw a monkey.

            3. They are massaged, their demands are met, and they are given legitimacy so that others might recognize terror as an effective tactic to steal what they want.

            or the worst:

            4. They kill everyone, including themselves, and the government of the innocent population STILL gives in even AFTER the incident is over!

            Thanks for nothing, Spain et al.
            What I am worried about is a variation on your number 1.

            All terrorists killed with massive casualties among the hostages.
            Just like the Moscow theater, except this time it kids that are dying.
            ...the troops of love are pulling out... (D.A.D.)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by CPangracs
              Now, now,...let's not be too harsh on these guys. They're the type of people Senator John Kerry would coddle and deal with if he was our president! Terrorists are people too, you know!


              REALITY CHECK!!
              These people need to be dealt with in the manner which they understand - brute force. The reality is that they are either:

              1. Taken down quickly with extreme prejudice and a few innocents MIGHT get injured or even killed

              2. They end up killing most or all of the hostages when they are denied recognition and told to go screw a monkey.

              3. They are massaged, their demands are met, and they are given legitimacy so that others might recognize terror as an effective tactic to steal what they want.

              or the worst:

              4. They kill everyone, including themselves, and the government of the innocent population STILL gives in even AFTER the incident is over!

              Thanks for nothing, Spain et al.
              The main thing here is to ensure that the Kids + Teachers get out safe. You send in negotiators to talk things down a bit. Placate the kidnappers with hot food for all inside, medical care etc. If they have families maybe bring them up to plead with them.

              Make clear to them their demands cannot be met though. They might surrender if guaranteed their lives and or safe Passage.

              Now I know you will say Fcuk That! But in a situation like this there are no perfect solutions, only least bad ones.
              http://www.irelandinhistory.blogspot.ie/

              Comment


              • #8
                I honestly hope there is a hell so they F-ing burn in it. Kids anywhere should not be involved in matters that they have no kind of even the remotest control over or understanding of. They should just be allowed to play and live happily.

                I hope they get them out.


                Goblin
                Last edited by Goblin; 01 Sep 04, 15:39.
                Mega Campaign Screaming Eagles and Das Reich Design Team Member
                DAS REICH CAMPAIGN, and THE SPWaW ICON GUIDE AVAILABLE AT: The SP:WaW Depot
                In difficult ground, press on. In encircled ground, devise strategems. In death ground, fight.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Wolfe Tone
                  The main thing here is to ensure that the Kids + Teachers get out safe. You send in negotiators to talk things down a bit. Placate the kidnappers with hot food for all inside, medical care etc. If they have families maybe bring them up to plead with them.

                  Make clear to them their demands cannot be met though. They might surrender if guaranteed their lives and or safe Passage.

                  Now I know you will say Fcuk That! But in a situation like this there are no perfect solutions, only least bad ones.
                  You're absolutely correct. An assault has disaster written all over it. I'm certain the terrorists drew lessons from the Moscow Theater hostage crisis, and have deployed counter-measures. Children also can complicate a rescue attempt because they don't evaluate and react in the kind of organized manner adults tend to.

                  Right now, the government in Moscow should pursue a dual course. Negotiations should be the priority. However, Russian forces must develop and refine plans for an assault. Moscow should consult foriegn counter-terrorist units to improve planning. (Not suggesting Russian forces are slouches.)

                  Its important to keep the kids comfortable and quiet. The government should try to get toys, books, and sleeping bags to the kids, keep ultilities up, feed them, and unfortunately the hostages. If negotiators can convince the terrorists to release all the children, that would create more options in case an assault. The Dutch succeeded in releasing kids held hostage by poising the food with mild bacteria. (Doubt it would work in this case, but who knows.)

                  The international community must denouce the terrorists' action. I know both sides are guilty of atrocities in Chechnya. However, two wrongs don't make a right.

                  I really hope this crisis is resolved without bloodshed. Some of the stories I heard about the Moscow Theater Hostage Crisis still bother me. One woman tried to commit suicide after learning her son died from the gas used in the raid. His mother had promised to hold his hand so he wouldn't loose her in heaven. I truly hope similiar stories can be avoided in this crisis.
                  "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Deltapooh
                    You're absolutely correct. An assault has disaster written all over it. I'm certain the terrorists drew lessons from the Moscow Theater hostage crisis, and have deployed counter-measures. Children also can complicate a rescue attempt because they don't evaluate and react in the kind of organized manner adults tend to.

                    Right now, the government in Moscow should pursue a dual course. Negotiations should be the priority. However, Russian forces must develop and refine plans for an assault. Moscow should consult foriegn counter-terrorist units to improve planning. (Not suggesting Russian forces are slouches.)

                    Its important to keep the kids comfortable and quiet. The government should try to get toys, books, and sleeping bags to the kids, keep ultilities up, feed them, and unfortunately the hostages. If negotiators can convince the terrorists to release all the children, that would create more options in case an assault. The Dutch succeeded in releasing kids held hostage by poising the food with mild bacteria. (Doubt it would work in this case, but who knows.)

                    The international community must denouce the terrorists' action. I know both sides are guilty of atrocities in Chechnya. However, two wrongs don't make a right.

                    I really hope this crisis is resolved without bloodshed. Some of the stories I heard about the Moscow Theater Hostage Crisis still bother me. One woman tried to commit suicide after learning her son died from the gas used in the raid. His mother had promised to hold his hand so he wouldn't loose her in heaven. I truly hope similiar stories can be avoided in this crisis.
                    I never advocated an "assault" - I said they must be handled with "extreme predjudice". There are ways to do that safeley, which Wolfe Tone mentioned, and I agree with everything you posted, BTW.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by CPangracs
                      I never advocated an "assault" - I said they must be handled with "extreme predjudice". There are ways to do that safeley, which Wolfe Tone mentioned, and I agree with everything you posted, BTW.
                      I should apologize. I was surpressing my own initial thought, which was hit the building, kill the tangos, and go home.

                      Thing is, the international community needs to urge Russia to show restraint. As a friend told me on another forum, Moscow tends to be more concerned with killing the terrorists than getting the hostages out alive.

                      The terrorists are reportedly demanding the release of some people rounded up in a June raid and the withdrawal of all Russian troops from Chechnya. Right now, I have little faith in negotiations producing a favorable solution. Hope for the best though.
                      "As soon as men decide that all means are permitted to fight an evil, then their good becomes indistinguishable from the evil that they set out to destroy."-Christopher Dawson - The Judgement of Nations, 1942

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hello, I'm James's fiancee, and as he regards this group quite highly, I thought I'd better let you know what's going on.

                        He left australia last night for the funeral of his friends, being held in southern Russia, near the chechnyan border. When he got to Moscow, he cuaght a plane to the town. when he got there, he was arrested by the Russians - we're not sure why.

                        I've spoken to him on the phone, and he's okay - it just seems to be a misunderstanding, but they're not letting him go until something checks out. He thinks that it might be becuse he's been to Chechnya before, and made firends with checnyans and russians.

                        Now with this horrible event with the kids, it seems as if the police in russian are being very strict with travel.

                        Even though he's okay, I ask you to keep him in your thoughts, as he still wants to go to Gronzy - even though I don't want him to - and that's a dnagerous place too.

                        thank you,

                        Krysia - James/Ivan's fiancee

                        ps. I'm not sure how to make it my name, so I just used his.
                        Now listening too;
                        - Russell Robertson, ruining whatever credibility my football team once had.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Ivan Rapkinov
                          Hello, I'm James's fiancee, and as he regards this group quite highly, I thought I'd better let you know what's going on.

                          He left australia last night for the funeral of his friends, being held in southern Russia, near the chechnyan border. When he got to Moscow, he cuaght a plane to the town. when he got there, he was arrested by the Russians - we're not sure why.

                          I've spoken to him on the phone, and he's okay - it just seems to be a misunderstanding, but they're not letting him go until something checks out. He thinks that it might be becuse he's been to Chechnya before, and made firends with checnyans and russians.

                          Now with this horrible event with the kids, it seems as if the police in russian are being very strict with travel.

                          Even though he's okay, I ask you to keep him in your thoughts, as he still wants to go to Gronzy - even though I don't want him to - and that's a dnagerous place too.

                          thank you,

                          Krysia - James/Ivan's fiancee

                          ps. I'm not sure how to make it my name, so I just used his.
                          I'm sure he'll return home to you safely.
                          In any case, I'll be praying for his safety.
                          Scientists have announced they've discovered a cure for apathy. However no one has shown the slightest bit of interest !!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Ivan Rapkinov
                            Hello, I'm James's fiancee, and as he regards this group quite highly, I thought I'd better let you know what's going on.

                            He left australia last night for the funeral of his friends, being held in southern Russia, near the chechnyan border. When he got to Moscow, he cuaght a plane to the town. when he got there, he was arrested by the Russians - we're not sure why.

                            I've spoken to him on the phone, and he's okay - it just seems to be a misunderstanding, but they're not letting him go until something checks out. He thinks that it might be becuse he's been to Chechnya before, and made firends with checnyans and russians.

                            Now with this horrible event with the kids, it seems as if the police in russian are being very strict with travel.

                            Even though he's okay, I ask you to keep him in your thoughts, as he still wants to go to Gronzy - even though I don't want him to - and that's a dnagerous place too.

                            thank you,

                            Krysia - James/Ivan's fiancee

                            ps. I'm not sure how to make it my name, so I just used his.
                            My prayers go out to him too!


                            Goblin
                            Mega Campaign Screaming Eagles and Das Reich Design Team Member
                            DAS REICH CAMPAIGN, and THE SPWaW ICON GUIDE AVAILABLE AT: The SP:WaW Depot
                            In difficult ground, press on. In encircled ground, devise strategems. In death ground, fight.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Reports are the terrorists are using the kids as shields at the windows to prevent snipers.

                              I doubt any warm food or blankets sent in will be used for the kids.

                              I don't know how the Russians are going to tackle this. If they use gas in sufficeint strength to knock down the terrorist it may be fatal to the kids. And if they just storm the place the terrorists are all wired with explosives to their bodies. I hate to say it but I think the chances of a 'good' resolution is slim.

                              Those kids and their families are in my thoughts and prayers today.
                              "Have you forgotten the face of your father?"

                              Comment

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