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Meteorite worship in Islam

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  • Meteorite worship in Islam

    I just a saw a movie of Muslims worshiping the Kabaa, the black cube thought to contain a meteorite.

    Shouldn't their interaction with the meteorite be considered idol worship (punishable by death in Islam)?

    "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
    --Frederick II, King of Prussia

  • #2
    You're talking about two different things.

    Muslims pray towards the Kaabaa -- the black building that is considered by them to be the site where Abraham built his first house of worship.

    To one side of it lies the rock / meteorite. I'm not sure what the religious significance is of that.

    However, they dont worship either structure. They are both reverred icons -- for whatever reasons -- but neither is worshipped


    • #3
      If you take a picture of the meteroite will you be stoned to death for idolatry?
      "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.


      • #4


        • #5


          • #6
            but isn't worshiping gods liek worshiping idols?

            billy idol was not too bad for a singer!
            "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci


            • #7
              Kaaba - The Rock


              SACRED PACES:

              The 3 most sacred places for the Muslims are: Mecca, Medina, and Jerusalem... for the Shiah, Karbala in Iraq, and Meshed in Iran.

              1- Mecca:

              The most sacred place for Muslims is the Kaaba sanctuary in Mecca, where Muhammad was born, the object of the annual pilgrimage, the "Hajj", attended by up to 2 million people from all over the world... a most impressive religious spectacle!.

              For the Muslims it is more than a mosque, it is believed to be the place where the heavenly bliss and power touches the earth directly... he who makes the "Hajj" goes to Paradise!... and all the Muslim prayers are directed towards Mecca.

              The "Kaaba" or "Ka'bah":

              It is a small cubical building housing a black stone in the center of the mosque. Constructed of grey stone and marble, with 3 pillars supporting the roof and suspended lamps. It is covered with an enormous cloth of black brocade. The "black stone" inside was given to Adam on his expulsion from paradise in order to obtain forgiveness of sins, and brought to earth by Gabriel. Most probably it is a meteorite. The Kaaba was supposed to be built by Abraham and Ishmael on the spot where Adam uttered his first prayers to God, though there is no proof that Abraham ever went to Mecca.

              The Kaaba was a revered sacred sanctuary before Islam, adoring many gods. The building has been destroyed and rebuilt many times. Muhammad seems to have disregarded the Kaaba, but after the Hegira to Medina, he took Mecca, destroyed the pagan idols within and surrounding the sanctuary, and converted it as the center of Islam, replacing Jerusalem.

              Yes, no proof/record of Abraham ever going to Mecca. His father was a bureacrat of Sumer/Akkad in Mesopotamia sent to the 'western frontier' of today's Palestine/Israel. This is the primary region Abram lived in when he made his pact with Jehwah becoming Abraham, founding father of the Jewish people/religion.

              Muhammad studied Jewish and Christian theology in course of his meditations for inspiration of a religion for his people, the Arabs. He saw that as long as one Arab tribe fought-pilliaged-raped other tribes, the Arabs would never unite and become a great people~civilization. The messages he 'channeled' from Gabriel/Allah therefore share much in common with Jewish and Christian dogma, that being a model for Muhammad's inspiration, with much added to make it the "final message from God".

              Islam being a religion crafted for Arabs, makes sense that eventually one of the most sacred sites in the pre-Muslim pagan beliefs of the Arabs would be co-opted by the new religion. Hence the Kaaba became the most sacred site in Islam. The site isn't worshiped, rather is viewed as a conduit to Heaven, a place to focus one's prayers upon in order for them to get there.

              Other than some animist and neo-pagan beliefs, Islam is the only major religion with such a terrestrial focus point. Gives rise to a rather interesting contemplation ...

              What if something "happened" to the Kaaba to destroy it?
              Something from out of the Heavens, something that might appear to be a clear "Act of God"?

              Say another Meteorite smashed into the Kaaba and destroyed it and the Mosque, the most sacred and central site of Islam.

              Might this not be seen by Muslims as a sign of displeasure from Allah for the way (some) Muslims are living and acting in today's world?

              Especially if some way a revised, new and improved, version of the Qur'an appeared in the aftermath? Then again, perhaps the destructive act would speak for itself, Muslims left to their own 'gnostisium' to interpret the message of the act.

              On another hand, if a non-Muslim group preannounced they were going to destroy the Kaaba as a display of Allah's powerlessness, then did so at the pre-announced day and time, wouldn't this take some wind out of the sails of Jihadis who think Allah approves of their actions and will heaps rewards upon them?
              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
              “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
              Present Current Events are the Future's History


              • #8
                note that early mosques are directed towards Jerusalem and not mecca, as in early islam (which was a jewish sect) prayer was to be in the directon of jerusalem. as for mecca, medina, and mohammed etc. existing at the times, it is very doubtfull.

                as for a meteor hitting Mecca.... I see where you are going to... I like it!
                "Freedom cannot exist without discipline, self-discipline, and rights cannot exist without duties. Those who do not observe their duties do not deserve their rights."--Oriana Fallaci


                • #9
                  Meteorite on meteorite

                  Not all of Mecca, just the Kaaba. A very precise impact that may be a Grand Strategic blow to an Ideology that imperils 'whirrled peas'.

                  While mosques initially faced Jeruselum, where Mohammad supposedly ascended to heaven seated upon an asse/donkey (maybe it happened in a dream he had~~~) they were quickly reoriented towards Mecca after Mohammad and his armies captured that city. (How many armies did Jesus Christ lead and how many cities did he capture?)

                  As for Islam starting out a Jewish sect, yadda yadda, still waiting to see some evidence for that, maybe archeological? This isn't some LIBERAL-SOCIALIST disinformation variation on "Protocols of the Wise Elders of Zion" scheme is it?!
                  TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                  “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                  Present Current Events are the Future's History


                  • #10
                    Hmmm....since Adam was already on Earth when he was banished, the rock he was given would have been there, too.

                    And yes, worshipping a rock is apostasy punishable by death for any Muslim who does it - however, sharia is both remarkably flexible and remarkably blind whenever it is convenient.

                    For example, the murder of innocent women and children, whether or not "in the name of Allah", is totally forbidden by the Qu'oran and automatically sentences the perpetrator to death, but no one has been executed for such a gross violation of Islam since it all began.

                    Islam is more like politics than a true religion, and it's rules mean little or nothing.


                    • #11
                      Muhammad never knew previous scriptures, the koran say:

                      29.45-51 God created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): verily in that is a Sign for those who believe, Recite what is sent of the Book by inspiration to thee, and establish regular Prayer: for Prayer restrains from shameful and unjust deeds; and remembrance of God is the greatest (thing in life) without doubt. And God knows the (deeds) that ye do, And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our God and your God is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam).", And thus (it is) that We have sent down the Book to thee. So the People of the Book believe therein, as also do some of these (pagan Arabs): and none but Unbelievers reject our signs, And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted, Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs, Ye they say: "Why are not Signs sent down to him from his Lord?" Say: "The signs are indeed with God and I am indeed a clear Warner.", And is it not enough for them that we have sent down to thee the Book which is rehearsed to them? Verily, in it is Mercy and a Reminder to those who believe.

                      If he was someone who was an expert in previous scriptures, the Meccans would have known this. Yet as the Koran shows he had no knowledge of previous scriptues and thus his adversaries were in great pains to explain where he got the Koran from.


                      • #12
                        Old Age "Channeling"

                        Less -see, Muhammad was a 'giggilo' who married his boss, the widow/older women of a merchant/carravan trader. He sequestered himself to a cave to mediate for inspiration, probably drawing upon that ages old Arab custom of pederasty for spiritual insight, with which to "channel" a message from the "Enlightened Elders of the Cosmos", who came to him in the guise of the ArchAngel Gabriel with a message from God/Allah. A "Message" that turned Arab Cultural Tradition of warfare-pillage-rape of Tribe upon tribe towards non-believer of the "New Religion" of Islam as "revealed" to him via the "channeled" extra-terrestrial source he tapped into.

                        According to some sources Muhammad was illiterate. Maybe, maybe not. Still, he had a cultural awareness of the environment about him and the need for his people, the Arabs, to shift their cultural traits of violence, pillage, and rape from each other on a tribal basis to the "others" and that a Religion would provide the best basis for such a common cause. Hence Islam is a religion that reflects Arabic cultural values and expressions. A "Religious" justification for violence, pillage, and rape upon the "un-beleivers" as vehicle for cultural expression~unity.

                        I could care less if I and others not of the "dar-al-Islam" are "infidels"~non-beleivers or not, I care that we are on the target-list of the so-called "true-beleivers" and those who would defend Islam as a "Religion of Peace" fail to clean their own house of this supposed 'Apostay'. Get rid of the "Jihadists" yourselves, don't try to divert we who defend ourselves from your "religious extremists" and we'll be happy. Until you grasp that actions speak louder than words understand that our actions WILL speak louder than your words and we'll ACT accordingly if you lack the balls/gonads to be the males/men you claim to be.

                        Death to all Islamo-Fascist-Extremist-Jihadists!

                        Since I consider Islam a "bogus" religion, one not of the True Creator of the Cosmos, I'll stick with my original inclination that destroying the Kaaba could only produce an ultimate good for all of Humanity.
                        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                        “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                        Present Current Events are the Future's History


                        • #13
                          A bump of this thread, for attention of Subutai and/or Wolery. Post number 7 being item for main examination.
                          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                          “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                          Present Current Events are the Future's History


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                            A bump of this thread, for attention of Subutai and/or Wolery. Post number 7 being item for main examination.
                            Here I am, Dave! I appricate a bump for me, I hope you'll comment back so I can see if I make a good account of myself.

                            Now, I have the rare position of that God loves us, but God is not neccessarily bound to save us from our own foolishness, or evil deeds. Therefore, the world is a very scary, bloody place where to ensure our people's survival (anything from family to speices) we must be able to commit acts that would be damnable, and criminal. Neccesity trumps all other considerations. I say in everything, from race, to religion to politics, that we can only hope to survive by understanding how vile human nature is, and devising ways of effectively dealing with it's ramifications. As such I'm suspecious about say, Latino immigration for I can see demogouges 40 years down the line exploiting a racial divide to create a race war within the US. Not definate, but possible. If we want to take them in, we have to be able to assimilate them as AMERICANS, something we semi-tried with blacks and now everything's a mess. If we don't take them in on equal terms, bitterness and anger will set in and Whites will be cagey about it, but there will more racism on their end, and then it blows like Mt. St. Helens.

                            What does that have to do with Islam? Everything, because our biggest problems are ones of control, of our fellow human beings. What the Muslims worship is immaterial. For our purposes, we are trying to bring Muslims, as a gorup into the 21st century and avoid the nasty, genocidal Islamic Ragnorok I have spoken of, and many here alluded to before I came in. If the Muslims, as a whole, will not and cannot be controlled, they must be destroyed. All of them, it's a security matter, not one of justice.

                            Post seven is straight on about the False Prophet, it seems his every action after leaving Mecca was evil, and completely self absorbed and dishonorable. This picture of Mo, drives fanaticism forward in that Muslims generally beleive that any action is justified if it benefits Islam, and this beleif is articulated in the Taqia doctrine of Sunni Islam. The sad thing is that Mohammed, if not neccesssarily the most honest man in Arabia, had a vision to pull Arabs out of the cultural latrine that Arabism was. In the attempt to emulate their prophet, they are ruled by his 7th century thinking and not his desire to move the Arabs forward, out of the 7th century. Islam's chief fault though, is that it does nothing to constrain human nature, and it is the sheer vileness of an untrained humanity that makes the Jihadi so dangerous...and occasionally stupid.

                            Islam may end of being the religion of the Antichrist, but it was ultimately man that created Islam. A false God in the image of a false profit, has rarely made the world a better place. And in our attempt to make ourselves safe from a false religion, we risk becoming little better. But we will be better, and we will recover in all ways, including morally, and that is the crux of why we DESERVE to win over Islam
                            How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
                            275. Because that's how many shells there are in the Maus. Then it could probably crush some more until it ran out of gas. - Surfinbird


                            • #15
                              Kaaba-There is little independent knowledge of the site's history, other than that over the centuries the current structure has been repeatedly destroyed by cataclysms and floods, just to be rebuilt on the very same spot.

                              In the year 929, members of Islam's fringe Karmatian sect pillaged the Kaaba and purloined the magic Black Stone. They took it to their tribal homeland in eastern Arabia, near the city of Qatif, in a mistaken belief that such usurpation would generate a profitable influx of pilgrims. This tourism-promotion scheme never worked. Twenty years later, the Karmatians gave up and returned the stone, damaged in the process, to its rightful place.


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