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  • G David Bock
    started a topic Islam - Jihad - GWOT

    Islam - Jihad - GWOT

    Many in the West tend to think of the World's religions as essentially the same, idealogies with dieties attached, differring only in minor details. Those more studied in History, which may be the case of many here, come to realize the differences are greater, hence the reason why "religious differences" have been major causes of conflict throughout history. A people's relgion has much to do with the shape of their culture and civilization and hence their view of the World/Cosmos and their place within such. The Religion of a Culture/Civilzation often becomes the main driver of their goals and dealings with other cultures/civilzations so a proper historical perspective requires an understanding of the substance and nuances of the religion of a culture/civilization in order to gauge who these people are and why they do what they do.

    Many of us in the West used to have only a passing aquaintance with Islam, thinking of it as something similar to Judism or Christianity only with a different name for their Deity and a few quaint customs. After Sept. 11, 2001, some of us began to realize that perhaps we needed to look deeper into the substance of Islam. I know that was my case and the following will reflect some of that investigation of the past few years.

    I'll present a mix of sources and materials from within Islam, for sake of getting it "from the horse's mouth" as one might say, as "pure" information as possible, as well as sources outside of Islam looking in from a Western perspective that hopefully helps bridge the conceptual gaps that exist between these to words, that presents Islamic concepts/dogma/scripture in a manner better grasped by 'the western mindset'.

    For a start, one wishing to know/study Islam might wish to get a copy of the Koran/Qur'an translated into their own language. Muslims claim that one can only know and understand the Qur'an in its original arabic, that something conceptual is lost in the translation. One is left to wonder then why this would be the case of arabic and not other languages - after all, such is the case, most languages have phrases and expressions that often don't translate well into others. Still, since humanity speaks hundreds of languages, we all have to stumble along trying our best to translate back and forth and it's seldom that anything profound or major remains lost "in the translation".

    More to the point, why would a Creator of all things and Knower of all things limit It's universal message to one of hundreds of languages when the message should be something so universal as to transcend all languages?!

    Fortunately, not all Muslims view Islam as such a constrained theology and any major chain bookstore (Barnes&Noble, B.Daltons, etc.) usually has about a half-dozen of more translations of the Koran/Qur'an on it's shelves. A copy I use and recommend is one put out by;
    Tahrike Tarsile Qur'an, Inc.
    80-08 51st Avenue
    Elmhurst, N.Y. 11373

    A non-profit religious organization devoted to the dissemination of authentic knowledge of Islam; http://www.koranusa.org/
    The 2003 edition I have is ISBN: 0-940368-18-8

    I've also seen volumns that have Arabic on one page and the translated language on the other for comparrision and one may wish to get such eventually.

    This thread is intended to provide ready reference to websites and articles that can be used as common ground and benchmarks to facility the many dialogues occurring on this board in which there seems to be some confusion and differences about Islam, the subset concept of Jihad, and how this factors into the 'so-called' "Global War On Terror"(GWOT).

  • G David Bock
    replied
    Might need to go in another thread as well;

    WATCH: Media blackout of ISIS at the southern border
    ...
    https://www.oann.com/watch-media-bla...uthern-border/

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Another example of religious tolerance from the religion of peace and love ...


    Jihad against the Crucifix

    by Raymond Ibrahim
    PJ Media
    June 6, 2019

    ...
    A 37-year-old Muslim migrant in Rome was recently arrested for attempted homicide after he stabbed a Christian man in the throat for wearing a crucifix around his neck. "Religious hate" is cited as an "aggravating factor" in the crime.

    This is hardly the first "religious hate" crime to occur in the context of the cross in Italy. Among others,
    • A Muslim boy of African origin picked on, insulted, and eventually beat a 12-year-old girl during school because she too was wearing a crucifix.
    • A Muslim migrant invaded an old church in Venice and attacked its large, 300-year-old cross, breaking off one of its arms, while shouting, "All that is in a church is false!"
    • After a crucifix was destroyed in close proximity to a populated mosque, the area's mayor said concerning the identity of the culprit(s): "Before we put a show of unity with Muslims, let's have them begin by respecting our civilization and our culture."

    The fact is, Islamic hostility to the cross is an unwavering phenomenon—one that crosses continents and centuries; one that is very much indicative of Islam's innate hostility to Christianity.


    For starters, not only is the cross the quintessential symbol of Christianity—for all denominations, including most forms of otherwise iconoclastic Protestantism—but it symbolizes the fundamental disagreement between Christians and Muslims. As Professor Sidney Griffith explains, "The cross and the icons publicly declared those very points of Christian faith which the Koran, in the Muslim view, explicitly denied: that Christ was the Son of God and that he died on the cross." Accordingly, "the Christian practice of venerating the cross ... often aroused the disdain of Muslims," so that from the start of the Muslim conquests of Christian lands there was an ongoing "campaign to erase the public symbols of Christianity, especially the previously ubiquitous sign of the cross."
    ...
    Modern day Muslim clerics confirm this. When asked about Islam's ruling on whether any person—in this case, Christians—is permitted to wear or pray before the cross, Sheikh Abdul Aziz al-Tarifi, a Saudi expert on Islamic law, said, "Under no circumstances is a human permitted to wear the cross" nor "is anyone permitted to pray to the cross." Why? "Because the prophet—peace and blessings on him—commanded the breaking of it [the cross]."
    ...
    Egypt: A young Coptic Christian woman named Mary was mauled to death when her cross identified her as a Christian to Muslim Brotherhood rioters. Similarly, 17-year-old Ayman, a Coptic student, was strangled and beaten to death by his Muslim teacher and fellow students for refusing to obey the teacher's orders to cover his cross.

    Julie Aftab

    Pakistan: When a Muslim man saw Julie Aftab, a Christian woman, wearing a cross around her neck, he attacked her, forced battery acid down her throat, and splashed it on her face—permanently damaging her esophagus, blinding her in one eye, and causing her to lose both eyelids and most of her teeth.

    Turkey: A 12-year-old boy in Turkey wearing a silver cross necklace in class was spit on and beaten regularly by Muslim classmates and teachers.

    ....
    As Islam's presence continues to grow in Europe, it should come as no surprise that attacks on crosses are also on the rise. Aside from the aforementioned attacks in Italy, the following occurred either in France and Germany, where attacks on churches and crosses have become endemic:
    ....
    Such is the history and continuity of Islamic hate for the cross—that symbol which represents the heart of the Christian faith, namely the death and resurrection of Christ, two events Islam vehemently denies.

    The jihad on the cross began with Muhammad, was carried out by early caliphs, and continues to this day by the jihadis of the world, not to mention the occasional "everyday" Muslim.
    ...
    https://www.meforum.org/58701/the-ji...d6f50-33661481

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    One of many "problems" with Pakistan is that it is a divided country on verge of a civil war. The Eastern half has more secular leaning Muslims while the Western half is mostly fundamentalist Islamists. This Western "half" is mostly Pushtun and merges over into Afghanistan;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pashtuns
    Along with the national demographic divisions, there are also similar within the Paki guv'mint orgs, especially the ISI, which supposedly produced the Taliban to have a controlling influence in post Soviet occupied Afghanistan.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-...s_Intelligence

    Net results ~ take a-ways;

    1) Any "solution" from the West/USA perspective to the Afghanistan and Taliban issue will require a "solution" to the Islamist factions and influences in Pakistan. Any efforts towards a more secular government within Afghanistan by the West/USA is readily offset by the influence and infiltrations from Western Pakistan supported by the Islamist factions within the ISI.

    2) As a nation not separating Church from State, and one with a largely Muslim population, should come as no surprise that non-Muslim minorities will have few if any legal/human rights and be subject to persecutions and legal prejudice and oppressions.

    3) The West/USA are "spinning our wheels" trying to make reforms in Afghanistan when such is so heavily linked to the situation in Pakistan. We(USA/West) should seriously consider a withdraw from "boots on the ground" and other overt presence in that region/area until there is fundamental change in the religiously biased government and it's systems within Pakistan. I'd be in favor of;

    1) with draw all our military forces and support from Pakistan and Afghanistan.

    2) Then apply sanctions and boycotts to both until the reform away from a religious dominated persecution focused forms of government. We might still engage selective bombings/missile strikes against Islamistist groups suspected of forming attacks towards other parts of the world, but for the most part, this region should be cut-off and isolated from the world until they are ready to join and play the 21st century game of equality and civil rights to all.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bwaha
    replied
    It sure is.

    Recent attacks on churches in northern Burkina Faso are likely to the work of jihadists whose activities are growing in the region despite a military operation to contain Islamist militancy.

    The country's foreign minister says tackling terrorism has become a fight "for the very survival" of the Sahel region, which incorporates for Burkina Faso, Chad, Mali, Mauritania and Niger.

    The militants have forced 100,000 in Burkina Faso alone to flee their homes in recent months.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-afric...eporting-story

    Note how the beeb is being a apologist for the murdering barbarians in the article.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by Bwaha View Post
    Pakistan vet charged with blasphemy over medicine 'wrapped in religious text.

    A Hindu veterinary doctor in south-east Pakistan has been charged under the country's strict blasphemy laws after allegedly selling medicine wrapped in paper bearing Islamic religious text.

    An angry crowd set fire to his clinic near Mirpur Khas, Sindh province, and other Hindu-owned shops were looted.

    The vet said his use of the paper, apparently torn from an Islamic studies school textbook, was a mistake.

    If he is convicted he could be sentenced to life in prison.

    Pakistan's blasphemy laws carry harsh penalties for anyone who insults Islam. Critics say they target a disproportionate number of people from religious minorities.

    More here. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48438333
    But Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance ...

    Leave a comment:


  • Bwaha
    replied
    Pakistan vet charged with blasphemy over medicine 'wrapped in religious text.

    A Hindu veterinary doctor in south-east Pakistan has been charged under the country's strict blasphemy laws after allegedly selling medicine wrapped in paper bearing Islamic religious text.

    An angry crowd set fire to his clinic near Mirpur Khas, Sindh province, and other Hindu-owned shops were looted.

    The vet said his use of the paper, apparently torn from an Islamic studies school textbook, was a mistake.

    If he is convicted he could be sentenced to life in prison.

    Pakistan's blasphemy laws carry harsh penalties for anyone who insults Islam. Critics say they target a disproportionate number of people from religious minorities.

    More here. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-48438333

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Informative and ongoing articles and op-eds;
    Islamist Watch
    https://www.meforum.org/islamist-watch
    $41 Million of Taxpayer-Subsidized Islamism
    Islamist Watch has discovered that $41 million of taxpayers money, in the form of grants and contracts, was given to institutions linked to or controlled by hardline Islamists. How can moderate Islam succeed when the U.S. government is funding its radical rivals?
    ...
    Research by the Middle East Forum has found that since 2007, federal government agencies have handed over $47 million to 61 Islamic institutions in the forms of 411 various grants and contracts.

    On the face of it, this need not be of concern. The government has long relied on contractors and charities from all faiths to implement its programs. Alarmingly, however, radical Islamic movements completely control 36% of the Muslim institutions that received government monies, taking 42% of the total funding. A further 36% of the grantees, which received 44% of the funds, operate under varying degrees of radical influence. A mere 14% of identified government funds given to Muslim organizations were directed toward institutions free of Islamist influence.

    In total, if the government's own data is accurate, at least $41 million was given to institutions either controlled or under the partial influence of the Muslim Brotherhood, Jamaat-e-Islami (a violent South Asian Islamist movement), Salafis, Deobandis (a hardline South Asian Sunni sect from which the Taliban was created) and the Iranian regime, among others.

    Some of the largest amounts involve grants to aid charities. Long favored by Islamist movements as a means to spread ideology through welfare, charities also provide extremists with plentiful funding and the occasional accompanying credibility of government partnership.
    ...
    https://www.meforum.org/islamist-wat...eid=062f3a999b

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Iraq's Christians 'close to extinction'

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48333923

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Pending another place more suitable;

    Four in 10 Americans Embrace Some Form of Socialism
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/257639/...socialism.aspx

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    London Bridge's youngest victim died when she slipped in high heels attempting to flee terrorists

    ...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ndation-widget

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Isil extremists using Instagram to promote jihad and incite support for terror attacks on the West

    ...
    Isil extremists are using Instagram to promote jihad and incite support for terror attacks on the West, an investigation by The Telegraph has found.

    They are circumventing the platform’s security checks to post images and text celebrating the killings of “kafir” (unbelievers) accompanied by images of dead soldiers and beheadings as well as threatening terrorist atrocities on the scale of the Sri Lankan suicide bombings that claimed 253 lives.
    ...
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ncite-support/

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Report: FBI Finds Child Remains, ‘Obstacle Course’ at Suspected Jihad Camp in Alabama
    ...
    The FBI reportedly discovered a “makeshift military-style obstacle course” and the remains of a child on a plot of land in Alabama that Sinclair media described this weekend as an “abandoned dump” owned by Siraj Ibn Wahhaj, who was arrested for establishing a similar site in New Mexico.
    ...


    Law enforcement agents arrested Wahhaj two sisters, and several others in August after searching the New Mexico compound, where they found three-year-old Abdul-Ghani Wahhaj dead and evidence of a plot to stage jihadist attacks in the area. In March, authorities charged Siraj Ibn Wahhaj, believed to own the compound; sisters Hujrah and Subhanah Wahhaj; Jany Leveille; and Lucas Morton with conspiracy to provide material support for terrorist attacks. A judge dropped charges against some in the group in the case of the younger Wahhaj’s death for child abuse in August.

    Authorities believe the adults in the New Mexico compound were training children to commit terrorist attacks and tried to “exorcise” Abdul-Ghani Wahhaj to cure his hypoxic-ischemic encephalopathy, a severe neurological condition requiring advanced medical treatment.

    Siraj Ibn Wahhaj and his two sisters are the children of prominent Brooklyn imam Siraj Wahhaj. Authorities believe 9 of the 11 children found in the New Mexico compound are the imam’s grandchildren.

    Sinclair Media revealed Friday that Siraj Ibh Wahhaj owned a property near Tuskegee, Alabama, found to contain what an FBI search warrant described as a “makeshift military-style obstacle course” and a dead child “believed to belong to Wahhaj,” prompting a child kidnapping charge following the dismissal of the child abuse charges in the New Mexico case. Police reportedly believe the terrorist training camp was designed for children’s use, not the adults in the compound.
    ...
    Prosecutors accused the group of suffering from “dangerous delusions” and planning to attack a hospital in Georgia because they considered it “corrupt.” They also claimed the group trained children in firearms use to prepare them to attack schools. In August, a New Mexico judge dismissed child abuse charges against Subhannah Wahhaj, Hujrah Wahhaj, and Lucas Morten because prosecutors failed to follow procedure and bring them to a preliminary hearing within ten days. Siraj Wahhaj and Jany Leveille still face those charges.
    ...
    The elder Wahhaj was an unindicted co-conspirator in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and served as a character witness in the case of “the Blind Sheik” Omar Abdel Rahman, believed to have plotted the attack.
    ...
    https://www.breitbart.com/national-s...mp-in-alabama/

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    This is rather extreme and uncalled for, IMO;

    REPORT: China Is Keeping Millions Of Muslims In Massive Government Internment Camps
    ...
    The United States, among other nations, has accused China of keeping millions of members of the country's Uyghur, most of whom are Muslim, locked inside massive government internment camps, which China is using as "re-education centers."
    ...
    https://www.dailywire.com/news/46891...aign=position1

    Leave a comment:


  • Daud
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    My "norms" are 21st Century and looking forward; regards Islam and Saudi Arabia the "Darker Age" is an effort and focus to return to the 7th Century origins of Islam and it's outdated "norms". This is why Islam, based upon "Satanic Verses", remains a bane and scourge upon the globe and humanity. Islam, especially through the nations whose "secular" governments and institutions have embraced the Koran and Sharia as guiding principles, has become both the largest and main cause of conflict in today's world and the major reason that the Dar-al-Islam is moving backwards towards an outdated and outmoded past rather than forward into a more enlightened, tolerant, and egalitarian Future.

    So long as Islam and the nations that strongly follow Islam's ideology continue upon the path they are on, there is no reasonable way the rest of the world can accept them. They may not need to be "secular liberals", but remaining 1400 years out of step as oppressive agents of tyranny provides no benefit to their people or the rest of humanity. Just the opposite in fact since Islam and Islamic applied nations remain the enemy of the rest of humanity.
    Few decades ago homosexuality was a disease in "modern west" too, you re in a test phase now. You dont know how your society will work. Will it remain even 1 century with all those deviations.

    And who knows what will you change in 5 or 10 years since you have no base. Maybe you ll ask saudis to modernise even further and forbid homosexuality again if you find it destructive

    I believe that you re in the downfall direction right now, and you want to pull others down.


    Muslim problem isnt sharia at any means, its corruption and ignorance. Even shia iran became nuclear power in 40 years or so with problems it had/has, so can every muslim society. They just need to get rid of certain things.

    Last edited by Daud; 02 May 19, 02:03.

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