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  • Sergio
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    Its an obvious anti Muslim outlet that let that one out. There is no sex slavery in Islam...that is perhaps from a false hadith. .
    Whom the right hand possesses is taken directly from the Quran. You are either lying or ignorant. Which one is it?

    Pointless replying to you since you have been repeatedly challenged with specific passages in the past which you ignore.

    Leave a comment:


  • sebfrench76
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    Its an obvious anti Muslim outlet that let that one out. There is no sex slavery in Islam....

    Ho noooo....
    Do you read the testimonies of the women liberated from daesh ?
    I believe that it is not written in the Coran , but if you have thousands of muslims using rape and slavery like a weapon , you make a rapid connection between the 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • nastle
    replied
    SJ
    You are the world expert on Taqqiyah hats off
    Atleast ISIS can't do that as its a shia thing

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    The Muslim Brotherhood Lobbies Congress
    EXCERPT:
    ...
    An innocent-sounding New Jersey-based organization called Egyptian Americans For Freedom And Justice (EAFAJ) made the rounds on Capitol Hill May 4 to urge U.S. lawmakers not to support designation of the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization.

    The visit, which came hours after the Muslim Brotherhood-linked Hasm terrorist organization claimed responsibly for a deadly attack on a security convoy in Cairo, wasn't the first time radical Islamists have masqueraded as human rights activists when seeking to sway American minds and won't be the last.

    Although EAFAJ makes an effort to talk the talk of democracy and freedom, its unabashed support for armed jihadis wreaking havoc in Egypt is hard to miss. At a November 2016 EAFAJ event, radical imam Mohamed Elbar declared that Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi "ought to be beheaded."

    The EAFAJ delegation included several known New Jersey-based Islamic extremists. EAFAJ chairman Hani ElKadi, for example, helped promote a February 2015 communiqué by the the Popular Resistance Movement (PRM), which has carried out numerous terrorist attacks and police killings in Egypt.

    EAFAJ board member and spokesman Mahmoud El-Sharkawy, who reportedly serves as the group's liaison with Brotherhood members exiled in Turkey, praised the terrorist Revolutionary Punishment Movement (RPM) for executing a police informant in Egypt. Aber Mostafa once posted personal information about a soccer team owner sympathetic to President Sisi with the word "Attaaack!"

    But the belle of the ball was New York-based activist Ayat Oraby, a favorite of the Brotherhood's broadcast media outlets.

    Oraby commonly refers to President Sisi as a murtad – meaning an apostate from Islam subject to punishment by death according to Sunni Islamic jurisprudence – and frequently calls for the terrorist attacks against the Egyptian army, which she calls the "Mi-Israeli army," a derogatory term (playing off the Arabic term for "Egyptian," misri) popular among Islamists. Last April she said that the execution of Egyptian soldiers in Sinai was "funny, comical, and amusing" and condemned the military for "killing Muslims on behalf of the Zionist enemy." Discussing a video of the execution of Egyptian soldiers, she said laughing, "militants were catching them like flies."

    Oraby also frequently celebrates terrorist attacks against Jews in Israel. On her official Facebook page, she mourned the death of Palestinian terrorist Siham Nimr, who was killed last March while trying to stab Israeli police officers.

    Oraby justifies Islamic State (ISIS) terrorism as well, albeit more indirectly, calling it the result of "democracy killing machines" (presumably Egypt's Sisi and other Arab leaders) in an interview on the Brotherhood's Mekameleen TV channel.
    ....
    http://www.meforum.org/6697/the-musl...8bc8a-33661481

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by nastle View Post
    The same Ali who took a slave girl to bed while his soldiers didn't have a change of clothes this led to much grumbling prompting Mahomet to show publicly support for Ali and this incident is called ghadir and this shia quote as the reason why Ali must be the successor....
    Its an obvious anti Muslim outlet that let that one out. There is no sex slavery in Islam...that is perhaps from a false hadith. Dont you support Muslims who say no ISIL is wrong about Islam and Jihad teaches to fight ISIL.

    A post of mine from another board I posted on,

    The fourth Rashidun Caliph Ali is sited by modern day Shia Muslims fighting ISIL as a Muslim leader who viewed non Muslims as equals...t goes even further they say that Christians fought under Ali contrary to the view that non Muslims have always been second class citizens in all Muslim majority lands.. Ali literally said that non Muslims are equals in creation... And its that type of unity that earns Shia Muslims the utter hatred of ISIL..ISIL members can not stand it when Muslims whom fight ISIL cite Quranic evidence as to why non Muslims are equal to Muslims..

    Therefore I have made this Covenant with them on my behalf, as well as on behalf of all tribes of Islam shall prevail, and the doctrine of Christianity shall continue.

    ....

    And the scale of taxation fixed by me for those nobles should be strictly adhered to. No demand should be made from the beyond what was already written down and sanctioned. They should not be molested or oppressed. Their country should not be taken from them. They should not be alienated from their country. The priests should not be converted from Christianity. The monks and hermits should not be disturbed in their solitudes, nor removed from their monasteries. Their preachers should not be prohibited to preach. Their habitations and their hereditary lands should not be devastated. Nobody should remove or to pull down the bells from the steeples of their Churches. This is the law which I have made for them. But, those who shall infringe my Covenant, by disobeying my behests, shall be transgressors of the ordinance of God, and shall suffer severe punishments and eternal penalties.


    Let no crowned head or man of authority of the Muslims or believers compel the Christians to profess the religion of Muslims.

    https://ballandalus.wordpress.com/20...ns-of-armenia/

    Persian Muslim history may interest you. Iranian/Persian Muslims do not have a ban on depictions of Muhammad...in many a way Iranian/Persian Muslims are similar to European Catholics.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by nastle View Post
    ^shia and sunni dont even treat each other as equal let alone non muslims

    What you are quoting are isolated instances , why dont you tell us about thr barbary slave trade of whites or the islamic slave markets of khiva which traded white slaves ?
    Or the ottoman ruthless suppression of white revolts in balkans ?
    I showed a video on this board of an Iraqi Shia commander training Iraqi Christians to fight ISIL...the same video saw another Iraqi commander praise Jews Muslims(Shia and Sunni) and Christians and he urged all three to unite as one hand to fight ISIL. The big time travesty here is not celebrating or acknowledging the Muslims that fight ISIL..and its the anti Muslim outlets that only talk about ISIL type Muslims that want to get good people like you to abhore Muslims...

    Why dont you tell us about white people enslaving blacks in the USA? See what I did there.....its an obvious misrepresentation of whites...sure some white folks practiced slavery but then again slavery was once a world wide issue. Do you view the past as a time when everyone was violent and there were no scientific advancements?

    Any comment on the fact that the much praised and loved Napoleon Bonaparte and Thomas Jefferson were interested in and in awe of the great Muslim empires of history?

    Leave a comment:


  • nastle
    replied
    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
    Ali, the first man to take up Muhammads message of Islam...said that all men are created equally...he literally said that non Muslims are "your equals in creation".

    It was Ali that was cited by a modern day Iraqi Shia Muslim commander as means of why Muslim Christian and Jew must continue to unite as one hand to fight ISIL.

    For the source of the quote see Page 19 of the following book

    https://www.amazon.com/Crescent-Comp...sap_bc?ie=UTF8
    The same Ali who took a slave girl to bed while his soldiers didn't have a change of clothes this led to much grumbling prompting Mahomet to show publicly support for Ali and this incident is called ghadir and this shia quote as the reason why Ali must be the successor....
    Last edited by nastle; 16 May 17, 07:06.

    Leave a comment:


  • nastle
    replied
    ^shia and sunni dont even treat each other as equal let alone non muslims

    What you are quoting are isolated instances , why dont you tell us about thr barbary slave trade of whites or the islamic slave markets of khiva which traded white slaves ?
    Or the ottoman ruthless suppression of white revolts in balkans ?

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Ali, the first man to take up Muhammads message of Islam...said that all men are created equally...he literally said that non Muslims are "your equals in creation".

    It was Ali that was cited by a modern day Iraqi Shia Muslim commander as means of why Muslim Christian and Jew must continue to unite as one hand to fight ISIL.

    For the source of the quote see Page 19 of the following book

    https://www.amazon.com/Crescent-Comp...sap_bc?ie=UTF8

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by nastle View Post
    The Muslim hoardes who devastated Europe for centuries enslaving men and women , castarating little boys were far more evil than most of the poor deluded souls who joined SS mostly to fight communism.

    But again Muhammad has little to do with the barbarity of Persian Turks and Arabs, you think if they were not Muslim they would be any less barbaric ? Think of Mongols and Huns , how were they different from ottoman and timur? ...not at all
    The point of dispute is mostly racial ethnic and not merely religious.Even if Turks Persians And Arabs adopted Buddhism Europe still would be under threat for centuries.
    To each their, in a world with 7.5+ billion people we have diversity,

    That said glory to Saladin, Muhammad, as well as the greatest glory to the Richard I, Bohemond of Taranto , and Godfrey of Bouillon. These men were among the greatest men of all time. Contrary to the ugliness preached from some religious and non religious people, respected men of history such as Napoleon Bonaparte and Thomas Jefferson respected Islam and were in awe of the empire building abilities of the Arabs. The Arabs once stood atop a mountain....if we go back to the 8th-11th century we will see the most glorious of Arab Empires.

    Not to mention the Turks. Turks brought the world the Ottoman Empire of which was responsible for some of the great military feats of history....competing like the Arabs did with European powers. And the fact is that scholars throughout the middle ages Muslim and Christian...respected each other even when they were opponents of each other. Just look at what scholars such as Jean Bodin and Baha AL Din had to say about each other.

    Abraham Lincoln..perhaps the greatest American to have ever graced this fine country of ours....provided an honorable gift to an Arab Muslim gentlemen Abdelkader, who followed in Muhammad's footsteps by protecting Christians.

    Here is Lincolns gift to Abdelkadir,


    A portrait of Abdelkadir protecting Christians,


    On July the ninth, 1860, his life of prayer, study and teaching was shattered. Angered by rebellious Christian minorities who refused to pay their taxes, Turkish authorities instigated reprisals that became a virtual pogrom. The emir used his palatial residence as a sanctuary for the European diplomatic community whose embassies were the first targets of the violence. Then, he and his Algerians plunged into the nearby Christian neighborhood and brought thousands to the safety of his home. Soon, an angry mob at his door demanded he turn over the Christians. Abdelkader refused, saying it was against the teachings of Islam to kill innocents. The crowd melted away in the face of his determination to defend those under his protection.

    After the riots, Abdelkader was credited with saving 10,000 lives, including those of the American, British, French and Russian consuls. Hailed throughout Europe, Russia and America as a great humanitarian, he received the French Legion of Honor, gifts from Pope Leo IX, President Lincoln, Queen Victoria, and other heads of state. His most valued accolade, however, was a letter from Chechen Emir Shamil, who praised him for his courage to do what his faith required–to protect the innocent.

    During the last twenty years of his life, the emir became a spiritual bridge between the European and Muslim worlds, epitomized by the role he played garnering Arab support for the Suez Canal project. Defying the skeptics, Abdelkader remained true to his word and never returned to Algeria. Upon his death in 1883, the New York Times hailed him as “ one of the few great men of the century.”

    History, according to the truism, is written by the victors. Yet, it was the French victors who paid homage to the moral, intellectual and spiritual qualities that made Abdelkader a widely recognized “ great man” of the mid 19th century. Emir Abdelkader inspired respect from Missouri to Moscow. His story is about many things, though ultimately it is about struggle: struggle against French invaders, struggle with Arabs who rejected his leadership, struggle with depression and despair in French prisons, struggle to live as a good Muslim.

    http://www.abdelkaderproject.org/about-emir-abdelkader/

    Just a minor note ^ The above link probably meant to say Pope Leo XIII..

    Yes, Muhammad had Christians fight in the Muslim armies contrary to what the anti religious dividers have to say. Just go and ask Iraqi Muslim commanders who fight ISIL...I showed a video with a Iraqi Shia Commander saying the Jews, Muslims and Christians under Muhammad fought as one untied hand. Its nice when history is on the side of great men and women of today like that Iraqi Shia commander...and there is nothing at all the ISIL type people of the world can do to change the love and unity that respected Muslims, Jews and Christians have had for each other.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by lynelhutz View Post
    Ideas matter. Ideas organize people and justify actions. The idea that motivate and organize ISIS is an interpretation of Islam. Islam is not merely an added on justification to support a specific nationalist or economic goal but it is seen as the primary source for their legitimacy.

    To determine if this is true, all you need to do is listen to them.


    Yes, Islam can be interpreted in a different way just like Christianity and Judaism. Modern mainstream Christianity and Judaism have all taken substantial steps away for a literal interpretation of their sacred texts and a long period of reformation and now decline.

    I would take some issue with many of the claims of "tolerance" shown by Muslim conquerors in lands in which that new Muslims were dramatically out numbered by the nearly acquired population. But either way it doesn't matter. The Amish and Catholics live their lives in very different ways and have very different ways of practicing their faith, but they are nonetheless both Christian.

    Similarly that there are lots of Muslim, even a majority of Muslims, who are quite happy to practice their version of Islam without seeing themselves as called to any violent action with non-believers. But for other Muslims violence is seen an inevitable and for others a duty. They are nonetheless all Muslims.

    I fully accept that in the "war of ideas" politicians should be careful in their public pronouncements and positioning in attacking the terrorists. But on some level this simply intellectually dishonest and or political spin.
    Exactly!

    As pointed out often on this thread, the Scriptures and Dogma of Islam, as well as the example set by Muhammad in the last years of his life, mandate engaging in Physical Jihad/Holy War as the only way to obtain the higher levels and greater rewards of Islamic Paradise/Heaven. We (the infidels and non-believers of the West/non-Islamic World ~Dar el-Islam) are fortunate that the vast majority of Muslims choose not to follow the violent agenda of full practice proscribed by Islamic Scripture/Dogma. I suspect this results from two factors;

    1) The Basic non-violent inclination of most Humans. The majority of humankind has a live-and-let-live approach to life whenever such is possible and allows for their survivual.

    2) The fact that many "Muslims" are such by force/compulsion, rather than choice.

    They have the misfortune of having been born into Nations/Cultures where Islam is predominate if not the only religious choice and hence they have been compelled to be Muslim from birth rather than by choice. I'd wager many current "Muslims" whould opt out of Islam if they thought they could do so without drastic repercussions - such as the Scripture/Dogma injunction to apply the penalty of death to those whom are apostates~leave the belief in Islam.

    As for the "minority" of "Muslims" whom engage in violent fulfillment of the Mandate of Islam, there may be a couple/few factors involved;

    1) Islamic version of Paradise/Heaven is multi-level/Multi-layered and the only way to attain anything other then the lowest level is to be a Holy Warrior/Mujahdeen/Jihadi engaged in Holy War/Physical Jihad against the Infidels/Apostates/non-believers of Islam. The greater the death and destruction one performs, the great the rewards and level attained. Hence Islamic Scripture/Dogma provides Encouragement/Justification/Rewards to the violence we see done by the Jihadis.

    2) Those, especially young males, whom due to environment, biology/genetics, Soul/Kharma have become pre-disposed to violence can find Religious/Scriptural-Dogma Justification to engage such anytime means and opportunity present themselves to do such. Hence the Scripture/Dogma of Islam is a ready-made formula for violence, masked as "Good" in a Holy Cause, that leads many a Mujahdeen/Jihadi to view themselves as a sort of "Jedi Knight" fighting the "Evil" of the non-believers of the World. A near perfect formula for a "Forever Warfare" of nearly 1400 years duration(so far) to keep Humanity in constant conflict and division.

    3) The centuries(millenia/ages) old cultural custom of pervasive perversion of pederasty common to Arabic and other South Asian Cultures provides another "politically incorrect" aspect of the issue which we in the West/non-Islamic World must deal with. It is not only FEMALE virgins that are promised as part of the rewards of higher Paradise/Heaven awaitng the Jihadi/Mujahdeen. Islam began as a "Religion" tailored to the Arabic Culture and has spread through-out a part of the World that has similar culture, hence we have generation upon generation of young males whom were abussed in their youth, filled with anger and hate, wanting to be vented somewhere, against someone, and Islam provides the perfect vehicle in targeting the non-Islamic part of the world, hence we of the non-Islamic world are referred to as the World of War, the Dar el-Haram.

    Bottom-line is we have a strongly embedded condition of Spiritual Evil, cloaking as "good", that was designed/tailored to provide the Polarity Opposite of Spiritual Good within the Cosmos and here on Earth. In "Star Wars" terms we could say that Islam is the Sith/Dark Side of the (Spiritual) Force within the Universe, as manifested upon Earth. This "implantation" appears to be by design, and likely by Entities/Agencies whom "planted" Islam as a mechanism to keep Humanity in constant Conflict(Forever Warfare) upon Earth and reduce the need for "a garrision" upon "Their Property" and prevent Human Unification that would make us better able to advance "to the stars", out into the Greater Galactic Community. I often think that "Star Wars" wasn't "so long ago" nor in a "galaxy far away".

    Leave a comment:


  • nastle
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    Mudlim terrorists (= ISIS, AQ,FSA,....) are committing crimes in the name of the Islam . Muslims who fight against Muslim terrorists don't do this in the name of the Islam .

    example : the Kurds (who are mostly Sunni Muslims ) fight against ISIS (mostly Sunni Muslims ) but do not do this in the name of the Islam .
    Because ISIS is the same Arab threat to them as Saddam was
    Kurds are not always the good guys
    Salahuddin the murderer of knights leader of jihad was a kurd, in the killing of Christian Armenians, muslim Kurds played an active role
    Don't think its just Islam that motivates them that's just an added bonus to make their propaganda appeal to a universal crowd, like Muhammad was an Arab nationalist later groups all adopted a version of Islam to suit their nationalistic agenda

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    Mudlim terrorists (= ISIS, AQ,FSA,....) are committing crimes in the name of the Islam . Muslims who fight against Muslim terrorists don't do this in the name of the Islam .

    example : the Kurds (who are mostly Sunni Muslims ) fight against ISIS (mostly Sunni Muslims ) but do not do this in the name of the Islam .

    It is the same for the army of Assad .

    Leave a comment:


  • nastle
    replied
    Originally posted by ljadw View Post
    We could talk about an other goodMuslim = a good friend of Adolf : the Mufti of Jeruzalem: there is a photo of him inspecting the SS division Handschar ,which consisted of experts in murdering non Muslim women and children . I am sure they learned a lot of Mohammed .
    The Muslim hoardes who devastated Europe for centuries enslaving men and women , castarating little boys were far more evil than most of the poor deluded souls who joined SS mostly to fight communism.

    But again Muhammad has little to do with the barbarity of Persian Turks and Arabs, you think if they were not Muslim they would be any less barbaric ? Think of Mongols and Huns , how were they different from ottoman and timur? ...not at all
    The point of dispute is mostly racial ethnic and not merely religious.Even if Turks Persians And Arabs adopted Buddhism Europe still would be under threat for centuries.
    Last edited by nastle; 06 May 17, 05:56.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Muslim majority Bangladesh banned the provocateur Zakir Naik....you wont hear that from the anti Muslim outlets.

    Leave a comment:

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