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  • How about some visuals for context, Maps showing Muslim presense and numbers, how much of the world they cover;

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

    http://btw.imb.org/news_map.asp

    http://www.nature.com/news/specials/...islam-map.html

    http://www.gmi.org/products/islamoht.htm

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    • Afghanistan ~ Then and Now

      The link follows, and implications that it leads to, could be placed in many threads here, but this one is the best, IMO.

      To understand our situation in Afghanistan, one needs to read the book, "Charlie Wilson's War" by George Crile. The movie is so-so as it dosen't quite cover many of the nuances of the situation as well as the book lays-out, nor do summaries or reviews also do full justice to the topic. That in mind, my brief summary here also is lacking, due to brievity, but hopefully provides some scope of what needs to be understood, principially that the key to Afghanistan lies in Pakistan.

      In the early 1980's, Charlie Wilson, Democrat Congressman from Eastern Texas, embraced the cause of Afganis against Russia (USSR) as a cause for "Freedom" and a way to stick Russia with it's own "Vietnam" quagmire in payback. This was a time when one could still be a Democrat and also be patriotic to USA, anti-communist, and pro 'Natural Rights/Liberties'.

      Wilson's committee placements in DC allowed him to find excess funds to direct towards the War in Afghanistan, initially via twisting the CIA effort of providing Afghanis with WWII surplus British Enfield .303s by getting Egypt and China(People's Republic and Woker's Paradise) into a bidding war to supply lower cost ammo than currently available on the international arms marketplace. Eventually Wilson would also embroil Israel in the effort as that nation had most recent experience in dealing with and countering Soviety weapons and tactics.

      Wilson also undertook his own 'foreign policy' in establishing close relations with Prince Bandar of Saudi Arabia, arranging matching funds from SA for any dollars Wilson could find in USA programs to redirect towards the Afghanis. Part of this 'independent' foreign policy also involved President Musharraf of Pakistan whom Wilson also had a very personal relationship with such that since all aid (weapons, equipment, funds) would flow thru Pakistan, the Pakis would distribute such as they saw fit to respective Afgani tribes/factions and the USA would "look the other way" regarding Pakistan's Nuclear Weapons Programs (obstensively to conter-balance India's Nuke Weapons Programs).

      Wilson also, thru CIA agent Gust Avrakotos, set-up a 'Rogue', 'out-of-the box' CIA operation to try and direct/funnel this Afghani=anti Soviet program. This actualy proved a successful example of how to achieve a mission-focused objective while circumventing DC bureauracacy.

      Downside, Grand Strategy wise, is that while in near terms the Soviets 'lost' in Afgahnistan, the West/USA 'lost' with regard to the mujahideen/ Islamic Jihad such as they thought the aid/weapons came from Ahllah, not the 'West', and would later think that since they beat the Soviets, they could also beat the West/USA.

      Since all the "Aid" from USA/'West' came thru Pakistan's ISI and they could choose their favorites for the most reception, the Islamic-Jihad faction within the Paki ISI was situated to pick their favorites for rule in Afghanistan after the Soviets withdrew; hence the Taliban are a group 'created' and supported by a faction with the Paki government/ISI to run the post-Soviet Afghanistan.

      When in the mid 1990's Sudan expelled Al Queada in order to move up in status as a 'non-terrorist supporting nation', AQ shopped around for where to re-settle and the Taliban Fundimentalist in Afghanistan looked the best place to re-locate. Hence by 9/11/2001, Afghanistan wound-up on the USA target-list as best suspect to strike back against for the "9/11" attack.

      Problem is that the Al Qeada/Taliban relationship traces back to the Fundementalist-Islamic/Jihad elements within Pakistan such that in order to "solve" the "Problem" in Afghanistan, we (West/USA) need to solve the 'problem' in Pakistan as well.

      Challenge is that the previous Admin, "GWB" lacked insight and/or Balls to do so and current Admin "Obama-nation" is evern more-so lacking in Intel or balls to the neccessary. That means any more troops (USA/NATO) set into Afghan are chasing their tails to produce an effective solution, since the 'mess' continues to spill over the border into Pakistan. Islamic Jihad is an issue that is Trans-national and NGO (Non-Government Organization) based as the following article shows with it's mentions of Uzbeckis, Chechens, Yemanis, Saudis, 'Arabs', and other non-Afganis who've choosen to show-up in Afghanistan/Pakistan for "Jihad".

      http://www.newsweek.com/id/216235/ouput/

      Comment


      • Releasing Gitmo Jihadi/Detainees

        I recall presenting this matter a couple of years back in another thread on this Board, but don't recall what thread it was. So I'll represent it here for posterity's sake;

        I've long advocated that Jihadis/detainees who no longer retain any intelligence value should be released from captivity by the USA Government. Why should USA Taxpayers provide three hots and a cot to these scum who desire to be martyrs to Islam when they no longer have any value in the GWOT? Don't we have a moral obligation to help them fulfill their Religious duty?

        The USA would first have to negotiate with Canada, or Russia, or Denmark/Greenland for access to a remote and uninhabitited island above the Artic Circle.

        Then in the middle of the Northern Hemisphere Winter, the Gitmo Detainees would be released upon said island.

        Of course we (USA) would provide each of them with basic essentials for survivual.

        Each Jihadi/Detainee from Gitmo would receive the following, before being given freedom/turned loose on this remote northern isle;

        One Koran and Prayer mat/blanket
        One mylar 'space' blanket
        One box of wooden 'strike anywhere' matches
        One "P-38" can-opener
        One case (24 cans, 15+ Oz.) 'pork-n-beans'

        Anything else such Jihadi/Detainees might need would of course be provided by Allah!

        Thus will the USA spare the wrath of our "European Allies" regarding our "in-human detention" of these combatants who are out of uniform and un-registered, who lucked out in being taken 'Prisioner of War' when they could have been executed on the battlefield. (And USA taxpayers won't have to feed and shelter them for the rest of their lives at an exorbiant expense.)

        Comment


        • Pork n beans? Ha.

          Comment


          • My above post, #123, wasn't "tongue in cheek" as some might think. Though it was a reflection of my humanitarian side on this issue.

            ACTUALLY, since most of these Gitmo Detainees are long past any usefulness, and since most wished to be martyrs to Jihad, I think we should oblige them ASAP (and spare the expense of keeping their useless sacks of skin alive at our expense any longer). Using bullets dipped in pork blood, each should be lined up against the wall and executed by (small)firing squad. Then, their remains smeared in pork blood, wrapped in body bags, and dumped in the waters of the Carib to be feed upon by the sharks and crabs. Each execution to be videoed and shown on you-tube, etc. and provided to all-jazz-eria.

            We're fighting people who don't abide by or believe in the conventions of war as practiced in the civilized part of the world. Consequently, we should deal with them in a manner and language they understand. Were I POTUS, immediately all munitions used by our military in theatre would be dipped in pork blood. Bodies/remains of jihadis/mujahdeen killed by our forces would be feed upon by herds of pigs turned loose to dine upon same. Pustan, border regions between Pakistan and Afghanistan, Iran and Iraq, would be carpet-bombed with pork rinds.

            Our military objective is to assist as many "holy warriors of Islam" as possible to die for their cause, but to F__K their efforts for the greater rewards in AllahLand. And to get that word our as far and wide as possible. Anything and everything that discredits that false idealogy/theology of Islam is to be used and applied. In the long run, the way to win this War is to kill the motivation of our enemy.

            Anything less than that is a waste of our treasury and more importantly of the lives of those who've chosen to be the combatants on our behalf in this Conflict.

            In the long run, it is literally; Life or Death, wake up people!

            Comment


            • Or we could inject them with RFID tags, GPS transponders, and audio pick-ups and turn them loose in their natural environment to live out the remainder of their lives while we study their "migration patterns". It works for tracking caribou, it should work on these bozos.
              Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

              Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

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              • Originally posted by GCoyote View Post
                Or we could inject them with RFID tags, GPS transponders, and audio pick-ups and turn them loose in their natural environment to live out the remainder of their lives while we study their "migration patterns". It works for tracking caribou, it should work on these bozos.
                Haven't I read on the ACG on some thread by some dude wearing tinfoil that this is what UFO aliens are doing to us already?

                The only recommendation I have to improve on Coyote's is that when 2 or more GPS transponders get within 5 meters of each other that a self destruct bomb in the cerebellum be activated. Don't want these guys collaborating on a book you know.
                Last edited by Trailboss49; 21 Oct 09, 01:03.
                "If you are right, then you are right even if everyone says you are wrong. If you are wrong then you are wrong even if everyone says you are right." William Penn.

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                • Originally posted by trailboss49 View Post
                  Haven't I read on the ACG on some thread by some dude wearing tinfoil that this is what UFO aliens are doing to us already?

                  The only recommendation I have to improve on Coyote's is that when 2 or more GPS transponders get within 5 meters of each other that a self destruct bomb in the cerebellum be activated. Don't want these guys collaborating on a book you know.
                  I would add that the bomb only goes of if GPS shows that they are not in the US. There might be innocent american bystanders. On the other hand... if you put the bomb into the torso you'd get a bigger explosion and then could blame the deaths on a "suicide bombing", thus getting more funding for the program. Ingenius!
                  Ha, wie so stolz und hehr
                  Wirft über Land und Meer
                  Weithin der deutsche Aar
                  Flammenden Blick.

                  Comment


                  • In Beirut I would squart near a curb where a old man would make coffee. Coffee is a misnomer, more like liquid speed. I would give him some Lebanese libre (money) and thank him and he would say succran and smile a big smile. One day before we left he leaned towards me and said "We are all the sons of Abraham" and some other tidbits, but that statement hit me hard. "Do not kill your brother or you die in sin" he also said. We need to find a way to silence the haters form THEIR side and ours from OUR side and try to live together. Then all religions will win, and with it everyone else.
                    In Vino Veritas

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Imperial View Post
                      Mohammed is most popular name for baby boys in London
                      Yes, I know a lot of people called Mohammed, and other Islamic names, not one of them has tried to blow me up.
                      My board games blog: The Brass Castle

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by dongar1 View Post
                        In Beirut I would squart near a curb where a old man would make coffee. Coffee is a misnomer, more like liquid speed. I would give him some Lebanese libre (money) and thank him and he would say succran and smile a big smile. One day before we left he leaned towards me and said "We are all the sons of Abraham" and some other tidbits, but that statement hit me hard. "Do not kill your brother or you die in sin" he also said. We need to find a way to silence the haters form THEIR side and ours from OUR side and try to live together. Then all religions will win, and with it everyone else.
                        I had similar experience in my two years in Bahrain, in fact, I would go back in a second given the opportunity.
                        Give me a fast ship and the wind at my back for I intend to sail in harms way! (John Paul Jones)

                        Initiated Chief Petty Officer
                        Hard core! Old School! Deal with it!

                        Comment


                        • One of the items I pointed out in the posts and links on the first couple of pages in this thread is that Jihad, being a jihadist, is not a "card-carrying" proof of membership sort of activity. It's transnational structure and assymetrical methods lend itself to a path an indivdual chooses out of conscience based upon their interpretation of Koran and perception of duties to Islam (not to mention those parts about it being the only gateway to higher rewards in Allah-Heaven).

                          Also as I pointed out, any non-believer and/or apostate is a valid target, armed or not, man-woman-child. In the murders he performed at Fort Hood last week, the nature of his actions that day and in the years prior, his writtings, contacts, and statements, Hasan showed himself to be a jihadist. A jihadist operating on his own initiative and funding most likely, from what we know so far. Therein lies the immediate lesson, he isn't the first, nor far from the last we'll likely see in this country.

                          In that context, the following article provides some more insight into factors that made this assault possible and why we'll likely see more;

                          Northern Va. Mosque of Alleged Fort Hood Shooter Connected to Jihadists and Islamic Terrorist Groups
                          http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/57087

                          Comment


                          • Rods from the Gawds!

                            It was over twenty years ago in a fictional novel dealing with the dwindling Cold War that I recall coming across the concept known as "Rods from God", mass plus kenetic energy, applied towards hordes of suppossed Soviet Armor columns advancing into Western Europe in a WWIII scenario. In this case, heavy metal (tungsten?, etc.) was used and combined with solid state electronic circuitry for guidance and composite component steerage, long metal rods were guided towards Soviet armored vehicles from MIRV warheads of ICBMs used in a non-nuclear mode to thwart the Soviet Armored incursions into Europe.

                            The book was "David's Sling" authored by Marc Stiegler (SP?), http://www.amazon.com/Davids-Sling-M.../dp/0671653695

                            Since then, this basic 'weapons' concept has been tweeked towards various other applications ...

                            One such might be in how to deal with the 'Guvmint' of Iran ...

                            Comment


                            • I discussed something with a muslim friends a couple of days ago; how America would be able to conquer the muslim world, not by force but through cultural imperialism.

                              The root of religious fanatism is poverty and shitty living conditions, general frustration fueled by smart people who know how to use it (read; Usama and gang). I'm no marxist - just keep on reading.

                              If America get rid of those problems, by investing in muslim countries, introducing them to the iPod-lifestyle and so forth, people would loose interest in dying the martyr death for the Prophet. Why do that when you can live a nice and comfortable coca cola-life instead?

                              It has worked before, after all. With Europe. You've all read European history - know what kind of place Europe was before capitalism arrived. Militaristic, fascist, fanatic - not much unlike the Muslim world of today.

                              America's strenght is not her military, but her capitalist culture. It's built on human egoism, which is way stronger than any of thar stupid soldarity, family values or religious respect that the muslims are so obsessed with. Capitalism consumerism is strong - it can conquer any country, something I doubt tha even the American military can handle. You have to realize that and make good use of it. People won't listen to you if you occupy their countries, even if you have the best intentions in the world. But if you "give" them MTV, iPods, etc. they will listen.

                              The question is if it's to late now, though...

                              Comment


                              • On the contrary

                                Originally posted by Subutai View Post
                                I discussed something with a muslim friends a couple of days ago; how America would be able to conquer the muslim world, not by force but through cultural imperialism.

                                The root of religious fanatism is poverty and shitty living conditions, general frustration fueled by smart people who know how to use it (read; Usama and gang). I'm no marxist - just keep on reading.

                                If America get rid of those problems, by investing in muslim countries, introducing them to the iPod-lifestyle and so forth, people would loose interest in dying the martyr death for the Prophet. Why do that when you can live a nice and comfortable coca cola-life instead?

                                It has worked before, after all. With Europe. You've all read European history - know what kind of place Europe was before capitalism arrived. Militaristic, fascist, fanatic - not much unlike the Muslim world of today.

                                America's strenght is not her military, but her capitalist culture. It's built on human egoism, which is way stronger than any of thar stupid soldarity, family values or religious respect that the muslims are so obsessed with. Capitalism consumerism is strong - it can conquer any country, something I doubt tha even the American military can handle. You have to realize that and make good use of it. People won't listen to you if you occupy their countries, even if you have the best intentions in the world. But if you "give" them MTV, iPods, etc. they will listen.

                                The question is if it's to late now, though...
                                The Taliban and the Wahhabi sect fear exactly that and are doing everything they can to keep western culture out of all areas they control or can get into. When they were in power, the Taliban banned music, movies, western clothes, and pretty much all other cultural activities not of local origin.
                                Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

                                Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

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