Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Islam - Jihad - GWOT

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #76
    What will the epitaph of Western Civ be...
    "We Didn't Want To Hurt Anybodies Feelings!"

    Arguing in favour of the genocide of something like a billion people - and your response to someone who disagrees with it is that? If you can seriously make a case for the mass murder of men, women and children in the name of Western civilisation - then you are the one who just put the final nail in the coffin of Western civilisation (whatever the hell that term might be since we are talking about a diverse bunch of societies spread across the globe).

    The sad thing is there are probably a lot of people like you around - and yet all Muslims are meant to be the threat?
    "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
    G.B Shaw

    "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
    Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

    Comment


    • #77
      Originally posted by Sergio View Post
      What will the epitaph of Western Civ be...
      "We Didn't Want To Hurt Anybodies Feelings!"

      Arguing in favour of the genocide of something like a billion people - and your response to someone who disagrees with it is that? If you can seriously make a case for the mass murder of men, women and children in the name of Western civilisation - then you are the one who just put the final nail in the coffin of Western civilisation (whatever the hell that term might be since we are talking about a diverse bunch of societies spread across the globe).
      Self-defense is not murder...

      We probably wouldn't have to kill them all..after several hundred million the rest would likely get the picture.

      I can assure you that if the situation was reversed the, so called, "religion of peace" would have no compunction about pushing the genocide button on us...with a hearty Allah Akbar thrown in to boot.

      The sad thing is there are probably a lot of people like you around -
      I feel the same about you bleeding heart lot myself. Your are going to PC the west right into slavery.

      ...and yet all Muslims are meant to be the threat?
      Islam and it's policy of convert or die is the threat.

      Please, PLEASE keep one thing in mind about all these "peaceful" Muslims you claim to know...their religion says it's OK to lie to non-believers.
      Later - Tater
      "Why I have a greater affinity to Israel than to the Muslim world after 9/11: Watching a death-match fight on Animal Planet once, I found myself instinctively rooting for the mammal over the reptile."

      Comment


      • #78
        It is worth noting that this particular gentleman arguing for mass death has already made his mind up. The conclusions have been made and the answers known. All of the arguments here made by people concerning their experiences and offering of reasons based on good historical knowledge for all this which do no equate to his rational are ignored and discarded because like an unread book his mind is closed to any other possibilities and therefore other courses of action or solutions. If you notice he does not directly respond to these points. He avoids them , responding with rhetoric , repeating the same points over because either a) his mind is made up so he cannot possibly discuss them or b) his knowledge is insufficient to be able to argue them or deliberate or perhap c) both a and b apply to him. This in effect a dogma to this person, a faith if you will. Remind you of any other group of people. An unrelenting conviction that he is right and if he could engineer this in reality, it would be nothing more than a self fulfilled prophecy.
        Now where else would you see and hear such a rationale? Where else would you see such utter faith , conviction and a completely closed mind to any other possibilty of life and relation to others he doesnt understand? Well I think you all know. Men like Osama Bin Laden or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Men who believe with utter conviction that their opposite numbers, the West, want to in their enitirity down to the last child destroy Islam and its culture as this gentleman here believes vice versa. As such all must be destroyed and oppressed.The gentleman here and the fanatic in the back street of Karachi are psychologically the same. They are the same. If this gentleman here was a German perhaps he would be equated with a modern version of a well known political movement of the last century. He however is not German so he does not. This of course is an error. How sad.
        Last edited by copenhagen; 14 Sep 09, 15:28.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
          It is worth noting that this particular gentleman arguing for mass death has already made his mind up. The conclusions have been made and the answers known. All of the arguments here made by people concerning their experiences and offering of reasons based on good historical knowledge for all this which do no equate to his rational are ignored and discarded because like an unread book his mind is closed to any other possibilities and therefore other courses of action or solutions. If you notice he does not directly respond to these points. He avoids them , responding with rhetoric , repeating the same points over because either a) his mind is made up so he cannot possibly discuss them or b) his knowledge is insufficient to be able to argue them or deliberate or perhap c) both a and b apply to him. This in effect a dogma to this person, a faith if you will. Remind you of any other group of people. An unrelenting conviction that he is right and if he could engineer this in reality, it would be nothing more than a self fulfilled prophecy.
          Now where else would you see and hear such a rationale? Where else would you see such utter faith , conviction and a completely closed mind to any other possibilty of life and relation to others he doesnt understand? Well I think you all know. Men like Osama Bin Laden or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Men who believe with utter conviction that their opposite numbers, the West, want to in their enitirity down to the last child destroy Islam and its culture as this gentleman here believes vice versa. As such all must be destroyed and oppressed.The gentleman here and the fanatic in the back street of Karachi are psychologically the same. They are the same. If this gentleman here was a German perhaps he would be equated with a modern version of a well known political movement of the last century. He however is not German so he does not. This of course is an error. How sad.
          Why have you decided to make this personal? Instead of arguing my points you just attack me...you have decided to make it about me rather than the discussion...frankly you strike me as the "closed book".
          Later - Tater
          "Why I have a greater affinity to Israel than to the Muslim world after 9/11: Watching a death-match fight on Animal Planet once, I found myself instinctively rooting for the mammal over the reptile."

          Comment


          • #80
            You advocate genocide and have only responded to thought out posts with rhetoric. I have little time for genocidal advocates no matter what their creed. If thats what you advocate, expect to be taken on.

            P.S. I never mentioned your name in my post so I guess you must think the cap fits.
            Last edited by copenhagen; 15 Sep 09, 05:02.

            Comment


            • #81
              Good God, this thread when wrong.

              Imperial, even if you had the timescale to assimilate Muslims (you don't) I advise you come to America and see 'how well' blacks fare here. In America, the racial dividing line has never been who is white, but who is black. You DON'T want a multiracial society, certainly not one with the dynamics of black/non-black relations. The best thing that can be said of it is White people won't detest a black person if they act orderly and civilized, something not expected, and non-Whites who aren't black may or may not be so generous. Outside of ethnic appeasers in liberal circles who blame Whitey for all the problems black folk have, everyone hates blacks, it's just a question of how much. Why then Obama? Obama came off too white to be from the Hood. Incidently black immigrants make better impressions, they are productive and inquisitive and are not enscounched in a culture of welfare and prideful ignorance.

              I guess they are kinda like Gypsies, and in safe environments, people wishly talk about sending blacks to Africa, which will probably happen if there's any serious disruption in American society or politics. No one will miss them and I'll stake a steak dinner on it. Repeat: YOU DO NOT WANT A MULTIRACIAL SOCIETY. It doesn't work well in the best of times, but at least in America we have Christian Latino and even some Asian immigrats. They come to be part of something great, to assimilate. Muslims come for money and stay to implement Sharia. If you need imigrants who might assimilate, take Latinos and middle class Hindus from India.
              Last edited by Wolery; 14 Sep 09, 18:33.
              How many Allied tanks it would take to destroy a Maus?
              275. Because that's how many shells there are in the Maus. Then it could probably crush some more until it ran out of gas. - Surfinbird

              Comment


              • #82
                In the Options for the West (non-Islamic World) on how to deal with IslamoFacism/Jihad, number three;

                3. Eliminate Jihadis and Jihad Idealogy.

                Note that "Eliminate" does not necessarily equate with "Exterminate".

                Reformation of Islamic Theology and Liturgy striking out the Call to Jihad and provisions for 'Greater Reward in Heaven/"Paradise" to Mujahdin/Jihadis would be the Ideal Solution. However this is not a Solution that can occur 'over night' or likely even within a couple decades/generations (unless some Major Event occurred that cast Islamic Theology into disrepute and invalidation).

                Mohammad claimed he was the Last Prophet of Gawd/Allah and that His Word/Koran was the Last and could not be changed one iota. Not a letter or word can be altered and the "True Believers" in Islam take this to the point that even translation out of Arabic is blasphamy. Hence we have a scriptural/liturgical/theological Catch 22 in that so-called moderates in Islam who might try to rewrite or reinterpret the Koran are considered Heretics/Apostates, and as such are even more reviled than we non-believing Infidels. Remember that under Shiria Law, literal and strict Koranic application, renouncing Islam; leaving the Faith, Converting to another Faith, changing the Koran, are punishible by Death!

                Reformation in Islam is the most extreme case of "pushing chains uphill". It will not be a quick or easy solution, but is likely the best Long-Term Solution if we wish to avoid the other Two.

                Note that in my other posts in this thread and in my "Dave's dozen reason's for war in Iraq" thread, that I've advocated for starting this process and regime/government change in Iraq is one of the foundation stones to start the process.

                Since there can not be, within Islamic culture/theology, another prophet, ala' Messiah for the Jews cum Jesus Christ, as we saw with the earlier Messages/Messangers from Yahwah, "Books"; it is slim odds for any notible progress within our lifetimes on this approach to defusing the "Forever War" situation that Islam has presented to the World for the last 1400 years.

                Comment


                • #83
                  Islam is one of the most "fundimentalist" of religions to ever come down the pike. Any one who has read my earlier posts in this thread on it's substance and history will realize that the application of principles as laid out in the Koran and Haddith, manifested as Shiria Law, is a literal Black and White, Do and Do Not formula for living that rules all aspects;
                  what to wear,
                  how to eat,
                  how to 'entertain',
                  even how to have sex with your spouse

                  As such it is antithema to Free Will, and Free Choice, to Liberty and Individual Expression, to Diversity itself.

                  Whereas Christianity seeks to counsel how to live in a world of temptation and deal with such;

                  Islam seeks to make a world free of temptation!

                  Islams translation; Submit/Surrender, says it all. Islam is an Ideology, wrapped in Deity/Theology, suited for those of humanity who wish not to be Free, not to think for themselves, not to live as they choose, not to have freedom of choice and consequence, rather to go through a rote of mindless steps that will give them 'salvation' after this life.

                  Islam is not tolerant of diversity or difference or Individuality.

                  Islam is about conformity.

                  Islam is like being in the 'Borg'.

                  In a Star Wars Term, Islam is the Dark Side of The Force, Islam is the Sith!

                  Anyone who believes in and aspires to live under concepts and principles espoused in the USA Declaration of Independence and the Preamble to USA Constitution would find Islam abhorable and an assualt to Human dignity, Freedom, and Liberty.

                  Anyone who defends or apologizes for Islam ought to go and live under Shiria for awhile, and if they survive, then come back and praise it.

                  I feel most sorrow for those poor souls who've been born into Islamic cultures, forced to live under Koranic/Shiria Law and have no option in their society to exercise the Rights guaranteed under the UN chart to Basic Human Rights and Liberties. That the UN allows nations applying Shiria Law and constrictions upon their citizens to remain members of the United Nations is an insult to the principles the UN was founded under, the supposed purpose for which it exists.

                  If an individual, adult and of legal age, wishes to live an Islamic Life, more power to such. But when Islamist/Muslims, seek to impose such upon others against their Right to Free Choice and Free Will, then they have violated the Laws of Nature and Freedom and must be constrained, if not eliminated.

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Economic Carrots ~ Throw more money at the 'Problem'.

                    Gotta love those Progressives~Liberals~Socialists ...

                    They have Great Intentions ...

                    So long as it's someone else's Money, Sweat, Tears, and Blood applied to what they perceive as "the World's Problems"!

                    Start to Google on charitible contributions and you'll find that it's Conservatives who out give, by a landside, to charities compared to "The Liberals~Progressives"

                    [Anyone confused by this term Progressives, start listening to Glenn Beck, read his website, those of Mark Levine, etc. and realize that "Progressive" is the catchphrase for Liberals and Socialists who wish not to be called such.]

                    After over sixty years of Petro-Dollar$, how much has been spent on "the people" of the receptiant nations and how much has gone into the coffers of the Kings and Potentates, for Palaces, hareems, yachts, 'executive jets, and Rivearia lifestyles/cassinos?! Not to mention national militaries and jihadist movements! Very little left over for "the people", for irrigation, capital investment in industry, and infrastructure.

                    Yet the "Progressives~Liberals~Socialists" (here and on other boards) would pander the mis-information that it is all "The West's Fault" that much of the Islamic world is in poverty and because of such they attack us.

                    After half a century on this planet I've noticed that "poor people" if aquiring a few sheckles more, would rahter spend it on their family for food, clothing and shelter than 'donate' to some Rebel's cause for heirarchial restructuring.

                    But then, most Progressives~Liberals~Socialist I've know have seldom gotten callouses or dirtied their hands or done an honest days labor in their life! They are deluded in thinking they have something in common with the rest of use working people, when in reality they are wannabes who retain elitists attitudes.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Rods from Gawd

                      Okay, enough soapboxing for now.

                      I love Ralph Peters! In fact, he's the main reason I subscribe to "Armchair General" as I look forward to his article every couple of months. Mr. Peters is one of the few writers/thinkers who does think "out of the box" and I admire his articles for such. So many here. and at other forums, think that when one applies Force (military or other) it must be "boots on the ground" or nuclear bombs, no other options. But ...

                      So, start by Googling "Rods from God".

                      One of the five 'pillars of Islam' is that a believer must pilgrimage to Mecca within their lifetime and circuit about the Holy Shrine. This is a 'Black rock', believed by many to be a fallen meteorite/asteriod, that has some connection with the founding of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic religious chain, and was "Holy" to Arabs before Mohammad's Inspiration.

                      One event that might shake-up Islamic Theology in the infallibility of Allah would be if something were to happen to this "religious object" that displayed Allah's wrath with his followers.

                      A few years ago I was working at an aerospace firm and we employed a few dozen former refugees from SE Asia: Cambodians, Laotians, and Vietnamese. I was surprised to discover that a couple of my co-workers, Vietnamese, were actually Muslim, derived from an ethnic group who'd converted thru Muslim conquest that pre-dated the Chinese inquersion to that region.

                      When I asked one of my co-workers what the Muslim reaction might be if the US (or others) dropped a nuclear device on the Mecca Shrine, his comment was that Allah would never allow such to occur. The plane/missile would never make it there or the device would not detonate, what-ever ...

                      Got me thinking. If they (Muslims) are so assured of Allah's intervention, what if Allah didn't/couldn't intervene? What if "non-Muslim" technology could prevail?!

                      What if an NEO - Near Earth Object (asteroid) were to impact the Shrine/Rock of Mecca?!

                      Might this not be interpreted as a "Sign from Allah" of his displeasure and open the door to a "new message" from Allah???

                      A chance to re-interpret Mohammad's Message towards something more "ecumenical"?

                      Maybe a precursor to a 'New Prophet' and "New Message"?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                        It is worth noting that this particular gentleman arguing for mass death has already made his mind up. The conclusions have been made and the answers known. All of the arguments here made by people concerning their experiences and offering of reasons based on good historical knowledge for all this which do no equate to his rational are ignored and discarded because like an unread book his mind is closed to any other possibilities and therefore other courses of action or solutions. If you notice he does not directly respond to these points. He avoids them , responding with rhetoric , repeating the same points over because either a) his mind is made up so he cannot possibly discuss them or b) his knowledge is insufficient to be able to argue them or deliberate or perhap c) both a and b apply to him. This in effect a dogma to this person, a faith if you will. Remind you of any other group of people. An unrelenting conviction that he is right and if he could engineer this in reality, it would be nothing more than a self fulfilled prophecy.
                        Now where else would you see and hear such a rationale? Where else would you see such utter faith , conviction and a completely closed mind to any other possibilty of life and relation to others he doesnt understand? Well I think you all know. Men like Osama Bin Laden or Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. Men who believe with utter conviction that their opposite numbers, the West, want to in their enitirity down to the last child destroy Islam and its culture as this gentleman here believes vice versa. As such all must be destroyed and oppressed.The gentleman here and the fanatic in the back street of Karachi are psychologically the same. They are the same. If this gentleman here was a German perhaps he would be equated with a modern version of a well known political movement of the last century. He however is not German so he does not. This of course is an error. How sad.
                        Exactly - mirror images of eachother. The only difference is the ideology they claim to adhere to. The demonisation of entire populations, cultures and diverse communities around the world - reducing them to cliches and stereotypes based on their own beliefs. Beliefs which are as unchallengeable as those of the most close-minded Islamist. The parallels with fanatics elsewhere utterly escapes them. Good luck getting these people here to understand that.

                        And the irony is that they can blather on about the tolerance of "Western Civilisation", its cultural heritage, the importance of freedom of thought, expression, life and so on and in the next breath call for genocide.
                        Last edited by Sergio; 15 Sep 09, 02:51.
                        "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                        G.B Shaw

                        "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                        Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
                          There is no cowardice or appeasement in these forums which is why people keep on coming back. I won't retract a single word I wrote about Islam, regardless of how unpopular that makes me. Also, please remember that the most hateful anti-Western and anti-American rhetoric and some of the worst, most persistent acts of terrorism occurred over a period of 3 decades: 1970s, 1980s and 1990s. Back then we were too preoccupied with bigger issues such as the threat of a nuclear war to hate Islam or reject Islam or even worry about Islam. By ignoring Islam and leaving it unmolested we opened the doors to such a pandemonium it may take 2 decades of warfare to undo the damage. What happened in the last 40 years only shows that being nice to Islam as an ideology is pointless because there is no benefit in it.
                          Since you obviously have no idea of the level of engagement with Muslim nations and even Muslim insurgents during the Cold War why should anything else you have to say on this subject be taken seriously?

                          As for "no cowardice or appeasement on these forums" get a grip. You are writing a few lines on an internet forum on which you have others agreeing with your point of view.
                          "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                          G.B Shaw

                          "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                          Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by copenhagen View Post
                            You advocate genocide and have only responded to thought out posts with rhetoric. I have little time for genocidal advocates no matter what their creed. If thats what you advocate, expect to be taken on.
                            I find your apologist position relative to Islam unconvincing. I advocate defending ourselves against a known scourage (i.e., Islam). You tipping a few brews with some MINO's does not an argument make...nor does it make you all knowing about Islam.

                            If there were truly moderate factions within Islam we would see some movement towards moderation, but there isn't and there hasn't been.

                            P.S. I never mentioned your name in my post so I guess you must think the cap fits.
                            What a childish point to try and make...
                            Later - Tater
                            "Why I have a greater affinity to Israel than to the Muslim world after 9/11: Watching a death-match fight on Animal Planet once, I found myself instinctively rooting for the mammal over the reptile."

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                              Exactly - mirror images of eachother. The only difference is the ideology they claim to adhere to. The demonisation of entire populations, cultures and diverse communities around the world - reducing them to cliches and stereotypes based on their own beliefs. Beliefs which are as unchallengeable as those of the most close-minded Islamist. The parallels with fanatics elsewhere utterly escapes them. Good luck getting these people here to understand that.

                              And the irony is that they can blather on about the tolerance of "Western Civilisation", its cultural heritage, the importance of freedom of thought, expression, life and so on and in the next breath call for genocide.
                              Defending ones nation, culture and society from those that would destroy requires tough choices. I will NOT apologize for chosing my nation, culture and society over Islam.

                              What I always find most interesting...it is people like Sergio & Copenhagen that Islam would be first to put on the chopping block.
                              Later - Tater
                              "Why I have a greater affinity to Israel than to the Muslim world after 9/11: Watching a death-match fight on Animal Planet once, I found myself instinctively rooting for the mammal over the reptile."

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Tater View Post
                                I find your apologist position relative to Islam unconvincing. I advocate defending ourselves against a known scourage (i.e., Islam). You tipping a few brews with some MINO's does not an argument make...nor does it make you all knowing about Islam.

                                If there were truly moderate factions within Islam we would see some movement towards moderation, but there isn't and there hasn't been.



                                What a childish point to try and make...
                                In no place have I have been an apologist for terrorism and murder by Islamist militants. Prove otherwise strawman.
                                Lets unspin your other comments, my spending time in Islamic countries is more of a practical experience than your convictions based on what exactly, internet sourced rhetoric? If you'd spent anytime there you'd have said so. Anyhow the fact remains you havent advocated defending anyone, you've advocated turning your society into the biggest perpetrators of genocidal war in history. If you have no comprehension of the consequences of that then your inadequacies in understanding the issues at hand are terrifying. Your beliefs if transfered to a public policy would make the liklehood of a an attempt of a nuclear attack on America or the west infinitely higher and they're probable as it is. Just more bumper sticker strategy from the narrow minded who cant understand or dont want to understand the depths and variety of strategy we must employ. Anyway you advocate the murder of millions. If this was being said by a german poster as part of some nostaligic rant he'd be sanctioned or kicked out. Its just the same drivel though.
                                Last edited by copenhagen; 15 Sep 09, 14:54.

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X