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  • Australia makes arrests over 'imminent threat' of Christmas Day attacks

    Australian police said on Friday they had foiled a plot to attack prominent sites in the city of Melbourne with a series of bombs on Christmas Day that authorities described as "an imminent terrorist event" inspired by Islamic State.
    Police laid terrorism charges against three men, with a fourth in detention who could face charges, after authorities conducted overnight raids on homes in the suburbs of Australia's second-largest city.
    The three have been charged with planning a terrorist attack and have been remanded to appear in court on April 28, the Australian Federal Police said in a statement.
    Six men and a woman, all Australian citizens in their 20s, were arrested during the security operation, code-named Kastelholm, conducted by about 400 police and members of the domestic spy agency.
    "This is a significant disruption of what we would describe as an imminent terrorist event in Melbourne," Federal Police Commissioner Andrew Colin told reporters in Sydney.
    Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull told reporters the planned attack was an "Islamist terrorist plot" and "one of the most substantial terrorist plots that have been disrupted over the last several years".




    Police walk towards a door as they search a house in the Melbourne suburb of Meadow Heights, Australia, December 23, 2016 during an operation regarding a plot to attack prominent sites in central Melbourne with a series of bombs on Christmas Day that authorities described as 'an imminent terrorist event' inspired by Islamic State. AAP/Julian Smith/via REUTERS





    The plot targeted high-profile locations in Melbourne, including Federation Square, Flinders Street Station and St Paul's Cathedral "possibly on Christmas Day", acting Victorian police commissioner Graham Ash ton said.
    It was inspired by the Islamic State militant group and the suspects had been under close surveillance for two weeks, he said. One of the suspected planners in custody was an Egyptian-born Australian and the others were all Australian-born of Lebanese descent, Ashton told reporters.
    He said the threat had been "removed ... in its entirety", however security in Melbourne was boosted on Friday. Extra police would be on patrol on Christmas Day and at an annual Boxing Day cricket test, which attracts tens of thousands of fans every year, in Melbourne.
    Melbourne Archbishop Philip Freer told reporters that services on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day would go ahead "unaffected by these things".
    Two of those arrested, including the woman, were released without charge, police said earlier.
    Police in Australia are able to hold terror suspects without charge for four hours but they can also apply to a court to detain them without charge for as long as two weeks.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/us-au...-idUSKBN14B2K2
    Credo quia absurdum.


    Quantum mechanics describes nature as absurd from the point of view of common sense. And yet it fully agrees with experiment. So I hope you can accept nature as She is - absurd! - Richard Feynman

    Comment


    • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmsAsr6iuHU




      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZgIrVdvp5k

      "Why is the Rum gone?"

      -Captain Jack

      Comment


      • ^ Both are informative and accurate videos that could be shown in a few other threads here ...
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

        Comment


        • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
          The military forces that Jesus Christ commanded were .... ???
          The campaigns and battles he lead those military forces in were ... ???
          The lands his followers militarily conquered and converted in the few decades after Christ's departure/passing were .... ????

          It's a rather unfair comparison
          Jesus movement didnt succeed while Muhammad movement did
          A more fair comparison is Muhammad and Moses

          To many the mainstream Christianity of today had nothing to do with Jesus preached anyway

          My main issue is with Muslims not Islam

          Assuming Islam was a western religion it would have evolved and led to enlightened societies

          If Christianity stayed just in the middle East then it would be just as barbaric close minded and cruel as muslim societies are today.

          Comment


          • I'm commenting on the Crusades point here, not as much to the general message of your thread.

            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
            The military forces that Jesus Christ commanded were .... ???[
            The Crusaders.
            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
            The campaigns and battles he lead those military forces in were ... ???
            The Crusades,



            He might not have been there on the battlefield but in the hearts and Minds of the Christian Crusaders was their Lord and Savior...Jesus.

            And yes, I agree that contrary to what some of the Jews, Muslims , non Christians and even some fellow Christians say of the Crusaders...that the Crusaders were honorable men.


            As for Jihad, Muslim, Mitzvah, Jew, Zionist, Wahhabi, Rabbis, Synagogues, and Mosques....you know, what about the Christians? What about the sacrifices that so many humble every day Christians made centuries ago to rightfully reclaim Jerusalem. Any human has the ability to say this land is mine and God said so...thats what many Jews and Muslims say about the Holy Land, as they should. But Ill never forget the beautiful European Christians who took up Crusade.
            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

            George S Patton

            Comment


            • Originally posted by nastle View Post
              It's a rather unfair comparison
              Jesus movement didnt succeed while Muhammad movement did
              A more fair comparison is Muhammad and Moses

              To many the mainstream Christianity of today had nothing to do with Jesus preached anyway

              My main issue is with Muslims not Islam

              Assuming Islam was a western religion it would have evolved and led to enlightened societies

              If Christianity stayed just in the middle East then it would be just as barbaric close minded and cruel as muslim societies are today.
              I agree of course the issue is with bad Muslims, not Islam. But G David Bock will tell you Jihad is the problem. No Jihad is a part of Islam like how Mitzvah(can mean Jewish holy war) is a part of Judaism.

              Christianity has never evolved. The NT does not include passages telling us to reform the Christian religion in the future.
              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

              George S Patton

              Comment


              • ^ any religion that grew and matured in the barbaric societies of middle East is "bad"

                It was the progressive thinking and social evolution of Europeans that make them a better society not their religion

                Comment


                • Originally posted by nastle View Post
                  ^ any religion that grew and matured in the barbaric societies of middle East is "bad"

                  It was the progressive thinking and social evolution of Europeans that make them a better society not their religion
                  The ME though includes the Roman Empire.. The Romans were involved in the ME long before Islam even came into inception. Europeans from the Roman Empire in fact worked with Arabs and Africans. Philip the Arab, the 33rd Emperor of Rome, was born in not Europe, but was born in Syria. The Roman Empire was not born in the ME, but it certainly grew in the ME.

                  I dont view the Roman Empire as a barbaric society. And let me also say the Arabs before Islam were geniuses....they improved the advancements in math made by those of Greek and Indian origin. The Muslim Arabs of the time of Muhammad were among the greatest fighters and builders of a civilization of all time. Remember, the early Muslims were low in #s, but somehow grew to the point of being strong enough to knock the Byzantine Empire out of Jerusalem.
                  Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                  Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                  George S Patton

                  Comment


                  • Look at what Julius Caesar did to Frank's And Germanic tribes ...it was genocide
                    How were the Romans not barbaric ?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                      I agree of course the issue is with bad Muslims, not Islam. But G David Bock will tell you Jihad is the problem. No Jihad is a part of Islam like how Mitzvah(can mean Jewish holy war) is a part of Judaism.

                      Christianity has never evolved. The NT does not include passages telling us to reform the Christian religion in the future.
                      QUOTE:
                      There is a Catch 22 here in that what was said to Muhammad by Allah can't be changed and the last of the revelations is very anti non-Muslim. The Koran is not arranged in order of revelation, but roughly longest to shortest of the chapters/Surah. Any later revelation that contradicts an earlier one is the one that was to apply, abrogation. Here's a link to the chronological order of the Koran;
                      http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronologi...f_the_Qur%27an

                      Some of the relating passages of the Koran, addressing the mandate of (physical)Jihad(Holy War) and rewards for engaging in such, etc.;

                      [2.154] And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.
                      [2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
                      [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.
                      [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.
                      [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
                      [5.32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.
                      [5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
                      [8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.
                      [8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
                      [8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.
                      [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
                      [9.36] Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
                      [33.26] And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part.
                      [33.27] And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.
                      [47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
                      [47.5] He will guide them and improve their condition.
                      [47.6] And cause them to enter the garden which He has made known to them.
                      http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

                      The comparable passages within the New Testament (Instructions of Jesus) are ???

                      I suppose you'll next claim it wasn't the ideology of the Nazis that was bad/evil, just some members/followers whom interpreted and applied it wrong.
                      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                        I agree of course the issue is with bad Muslims, not Islam. But G David Bock will tell you Jihad is the problem. No Jihad is a part of Islam like how Mitzvah(can mean Jewish holy war) is a part of Judaism.

                        Christianity has never evolved. The NT does not include passages telling us to reform the Christian religion in the future.
                        And of course you can show where in the New Testament we will find an instruction like this from Jesus;

                        The Muslims performing the so-called "terrorist" actions refer to what they do as Jihad, and anyone being honest about Islam would acknowledge that there are different forms of Jihad. These Islamists/Jihadists view themselves as fundamentalists of Islam and true followers Muhammad's example and command;

                        "I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah."

                        From;
                        Book 001, Number 0033:
                        It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.
                        http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religiou...t.php#001.0033

                        One may find Numbers 0030, 0031, 0032 of related interest as well.
                        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                        Comment


                        • Not all german soldiers who fought in 39 to 45 were hardcore Nazis or can be considered war criminals it's just an oversimplification
                          If you were a 20 yr old in 1939 and seeing your country defeated and humiliated after WW1 and threat of communism it's easy to see how so many were seduced by Nazis
                          Middle eastern militancy whether in the mould of islam or old testemant is far worse it's an institution of constant apartheid , and perpetual warfare against people who are not like you.The complete opposite of pluralism that liberals defend.
                          Last edited by nastle; 26 Jan 17, 11:47.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by nastle View Post
                            Look at what Julius Caesar did to Frank's And Germanic tribes ...it was genocide
                            How were the Romans not barbaric ?
                            Because the Romans have contributed tremendously to the world we live in today. You can find Roman statues in Europe, Africa and the ME.

                            Wait a second...The Roman Empire was known for conscripting some of its former enemies. 2nd, warfare of the Roman times, and life in general during the Roman times were different, much different then today.

                            Caesar was tolerant of the Jews btw.
                            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                            George S Patton

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                              QUOTE:
                              There is a Catch 22 here in that what was said to Muhammad by Allah can't be changed and the last of the revelations is very anti non-Muslim. The Koran is not arranged in order of revelation, but roughly longest to shortest of the chapters/Surah. Any later revelation that contradicts an earlier one is the one that was to apply, abrogation. Here's a link to the chronological order of the Koran;
                              http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Chronologi...f_the_Qur%27an

                              Some of the relating passages of the Koran, addressing the mandate of (physical)Jihad(Holy War) and rewards for engaging in such, etc.;

                              [2.154] And do not speak of those who are slain in Allah's way as dead; nay, (they are) alive, but you do not perceive.
                              [2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and h is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.
                              [4.74] Therefore let those fight in the way of Allah, who sell this world's life for the hereafter; and whoever fights in the way of Allah, then be he slain or be he victorious, We shall grant him a mighty reward.
                              [4.76] Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.
                              [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
                              [5.32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.
                              [5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
                              [8.38] Say to those who disbelieve, if they desist, that which is past shall be forgiven to them; and if they return, then what happened to the ancients has already passed.
                              [8.39] And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
                              [8.60] And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.
                              [9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
                              [9.36] Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).
                              [33.26] And He drove down those of the followers of the Book who backed them from their fortresses and He cast awe into their hearts; some you killed and you took captive another part.
                              [33.27] And He made you heirs to their land and their dwellings and their property, and (to) a land which you have not yet trodden, and Allah has power over all things.
                              [47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.
                              [47.5] He will guide them and improve their condition.
                              [47.6] And cause them to enter the garden which He has made known to them.
                              http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

                              The comparable passages within the New Testament (Instructions of Jesus) are ???

                              I suppose you'll next claim it wasn't the ideology of the Nazis that was bad/evil, just some members/followers whom interpreted and applied it wrong.
                              Dont use the rolleyes against me, Im not using rude language or rude emoticons toward you.

                              Jesus was the leader of the Crusades....just look at what Priests and Bishops had to say about the Crusades and their relation to Christ.

                              And yes, Jews can and have declared Jewish Holy war...see the Zealots, See the Himyarite Kingdom of Yemen and see Israel. Israel praised btw Soviet Jews as they should.

                              Islamic, Jewish and Christian Holy war are a part of history. There is no need to denigrate Jihad, Mitzvah or Crusade.
                              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                              George S Patton

                              Comment

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