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  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by nastle View Post
    ^ any religion that grew and matured in the barbaric societies of middle East is "bad"

    It was the progressive thinking and social evolution of Europeans that make them a better society not their religion
    The ME though includes the Roman Empire.. The Romans were involved in the ME long before Islam even came into inception. Europeans from the Roman Empire in fact worked with Arabs and Africans. Philip the Arab, the 33rd Emperor of Rome, was born in not Europe, but was born in Syria. The Roman Empire was not born in the ME, but it certainly grew in the ME.

    I dont view the Roman Empire as a barbaric society. And let me also say the Arabs before Islam were geniuses....they improved the advancements in math made by those of Greek and Indian origin. The Muslim Arabs of the time of Muhammad were among the greatest fighters and builders of a civilization of all time. Remember, the early Muslims were low in #s, but somehow grew to the point of being strong enough to knock the Byzantine Empire out of Jerusalem.

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  • nastle
    replied
    ^ any religion that grew and matured in the barbaric societies of middle East is "bad"

    It was the progressive thinking and social evolution of Europeans that make them a better society not their religion

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by nastle View Post
    It's a rather unfair comparison
    Jesus movement didnt succeed while Muhammad movement did
    A more fair comparison is Muhammad and Moses

    To many the mainstream Christianity of today had nothing to do with Jesus preached anyway

    My main issue is with Muslims not Islam

    Assuming Islam was a western religion it would have evolved and led to enlightened societies

    If Christianity stayed just in the middle East then it would be just as barbaric close minded and cruel as muslim societies are today.
    I agree of course the issue is with bad Muslims, not Islam. But G David Bock will tell you Jihad is the problem. No Jihad is a part of Islam like how Mitzvah(can mean Jewish holy war) is a part of Judaism.

    Christianity has never evolved. The NT does not include passages telling us to reform the Christian religion in the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • Stonewall_Jack
    replied
    I'm commenting on the Crusades point here, not as much to the general message of your thread.

    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    The military forces that Jesus Christ commanded were .... ???[
    The Crusaders.
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    The campaigns and battles he lead those military forces in were ... ???
    The Crusades,



    He might not have been there on the battlefield but in the hearts and Minds of the Christian Crusaders was their Lord and Savior...Jesus.

    And yes, I agree that contrary to what some of the Jews, Muslims , non Christians and even some fellow Christians say of the Crusaders...that the Crusaders were honorable men.


    As for Jihad, Muslim, Mitzvah, Jew, Zionist, Wahhabi, Rabbis, Synagogues, and Mosques....you know, what about the Christians? What about the sacrifices that so many humble every day Christians made centuries ago to rightfully reclaim Jerusalem. Any human has the ability to say this land is mine and God said so...thats what many Jews and Muslims say about the Holy Land, as they should. But Ill never forget the beautiful European Christians who took up Crusade.

    Leave a comment:


  • nastle
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    The military forces that Jesus Christ commanded were .... ???
    The campaigns and battles he lead those military forces in were ... ???
    The lands his followers militarily conquered and converted in the few decades after Christ's departure/passing were .... ????

    It's a rather unfair comparison
    Jesus movement didnt succeed while Muhammad movement did
    A more fair comparison is Muhammad and Moses

    To many the mainstream Christianity of today had nothing to do with Jesus preached anyway

    My main issue is with Muslims not Islam

    Assuming Islam was a western religion it would have evolved and led to enlightened societies

    If Christianity stayed just in the middle East then it would be just as barbaric close minded and cruel as muslim societies are today.

    Leave a comment:

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