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  • Originally posted by Sergio View Post
    I have - Islam, Jihad and the so called Global War on Terror. Muslims - terrorism. As for the other post it is nonsense. However, his point would have been served had he chosen a picture of a group of Catholics, Christian homophobes, Jewish settlers, Sinhalese/Tamil extremists, etc.

    As for the Haj - you could have highlighted the barbarity and cruelty involved in the sacrifices. As well as the nonsense involved in the whole set-up, the financial value of this process to the Saudis, the fact that it continues to reinforce Saudi importance and power and the fact that we are so strongly tied to a system that supports extremism around the globe as well as discriminating against an entire gender at home. But no instead it's Haj, Muslims - Global War on Terror (except for those terrorists we support). Nuance and context is more valuable than lumping everything Muslim into a single block.
    Catholics are Christians also, and not all Christians are "homophobes". There are more "nuances" and variety of religious expression within the "Christian" religion than within the Islamic religion. BTW, Islam in general, per dogma, is more "homophobic" than Christianity.

    As I pointed out, six years ago in theopening pages of posts on this thread, the Hajj is one of the five pillars of Islam. Back there/then I presented extensive discussion on the "nuances" of Islam along with several sources/links, many are still functional. You might wish to read and reveal the material at the start of this thread. Your whole juvenile "rant" is about a link to a handful of photos that are supplement and illustrative to material I presented here long ago.

    Contemporary language has anyone whom believes in and practices Islamic religion being known as a Muslim, so one could say Muslim = Islam in many contexts.

    As for Saudi aspects, again, go back to the first few pages several dozen posts of this thread. The material in justification for physical Jihad (Holy War upon Infidels) is from an article by a chief justice of the Saudi Supreme Court. Saudi issues have been covered by myself and others already in this thread, you could review that material and add to it what you think (in your opinion) has been left out.

    I included the use of "GWOT" Global War On Terror because that was/is the term often bandied about. However if you review what I've already written here, a major part of my purpose was to illustrate that the more correct term would be "Global War On Islamic Jihad" since that is what we are fighting. I point out that "Terror" was used for political correctness, to defuse the chance that many might misconstrue there was a War upon all of Islam/Muslims, which is not the case.

    Terror is a tactic/method, not an idealogy. We are fighting an idealogy, with deity attached, and the purpose of this thread was to show what parts of that dogma support the idealogy of Jihad. As well as the backdrop of Islam itself.

    Maybe it's something lost in translation from English to American, but you appear to be the one deluded and misinformed, and likely more clueless than you realize. Or just too lazy to go thru all the material here.
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Sergio View Post
      The fact that you cannot understand that lumping all things Muslim into a category of Islam-Jihad-'GWOT' misses out context, nuance, differences and so on sums it up.
      See my above post, preceding this and note that as we "Yanks" put it, you are so clueless and miss informed that you are what we call "way out in left field"!

      Originally posted by Sergio View Post
      And yet pointing that out alongside making reference to the tired call to hit the Kaaba is trolling?
      Some would say this has come up as an idea for out of the box solutions. Scripture of Islam leaves no room for 'Reformation', such as occurred with Christianity. That leaves the avenue of invalidation of the scripture as one possible solution.

      One could hope that the were the Kaaba to be strike by something falling out of the sky, that the Will of Allah will be more merciful of innocents than it was on Sept. 11,2001.

      Originally posted by Sergio View Post
      Anyways will let you get back to everything Islamic/Muslim is the same. Enjoy.
      All available material and evidence would show that Muslims are Islamic, believers and practicioners of Islam. You have not presented any material or evidence to the contrary.
      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Paddybhoy View Post
        Ignore him, he is a chickenhawk.
        And like "Sergio" you have displayed great courage, integrity, and honor by providing us with insight into the real person you are via the extensive material in your profile here.

        Makes you what sort of foul?
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

        Comment


        • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
          See my above post, preceding this and note that as we "Yanks" put it, you are so clueless and miss informed that you are what we call "way out in left field"!



          Some would say this has come up as an idea for out of the box solutions. Scripture of Islam leaves no room for 'Reformation', such as occurred with Christianity. That leaves the avenue of invalidation of the scripture as one possible solution.

          One could hope that the were the Kaaba to be strike by something falling out of the sky, that the Will of Allah will be more merciful of innocents than it was on Sept. 11,2001.



          All available material and evidence would show that Muslims are Islamic, believers and practicioners of Islam. You have not presented any material or evidence to the contrary.
          And were I to use an English euphemism I would suggest that you are talking out of something else rather than just being way out in left field.

          Muslims who follow Islam are Islamic and therefore practitioners of Islam - well all I can say is thank you for the insight. I, for one, would like to thank you for your tireless efforts to reach that conclusion. I believe with that level of subject knowledge, context and scholarship we may just have turned the corner in the battle against Islamism. Do you want to let the administration know or should I?

          Just to save you time Christians who follow Christianity are Christians and practitioners of Christianity , Hindus who follow Hinduism are Hindus and practitioners of Hinduism, Jewish who follow Judaism are Jews and practitioners of Judaism and so on.

          Invalidate the scripture - you want to invalidate the fictional ramblings of an invisible pixie in the sky who apparently sent someone to the heavens on a horse with wings and allows slavery, rape, child marriage and mass murder? Seems pretty invalidated to me already. What is needed are secular societies in which religion has no power in the social sphere.

          But you head back to your wet dreams about striking the Kaaba.

          One could hope that the were the Kaaba to be strike by something falling out of the sky, that the Will of Allah will be more merciful of innocents than it was on Sept. 11,2001.
          As for that - I would have hoped that the Will of Allah would have been more merciful to all the victims of terrorism. Be it Islamist or American led/inspired/funded. Then again it never is - so much for the will of god.
          Last edited by GCoyote; 17 Sep 13, 07:56. Reason: fixed [/QUOTE]
          "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
          G.B Shaw

          "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
          Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

          Comment


          • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
            And like "Sergio" you have displayed great courage, integrity, and honor by providing us with insight into the real person you are via the extensive material in your profile here.

            Makes you what sort of foul?

            Thats a picture of me in my avatar so yer talkin pish again.

            Anyway I will let you get back to your little war fantasy.
            Last edited by Paddybhoy; 17 Sep 13, 06:30.

            Comment


            • Israeli raid in West Bank kills palestinian

              Israeli troops have shot and fatally wounded a suspected Palestinian fighter during a raid on his home in a refugee camp in the occupied West Bank, the Israeli army and Palestinian security officials said.

              Palestinian security sources named the dead man as Islam al-Tubasi, 21, and said he was shot as troops stormed his home in the Jenin refugee camp in the northern West Bank.

              "The wanted suspect was injured, evacuated by military forces for further treatment and later died of his wounds in an Israeli hospital," an Israel military statement said on Tuesday.

              The sources had no information on whether he was engaged in armed activity but said that his brother, who had been active in Islamic Jihad, was shot dead by troops in 2006.

              The Israeli army statement said that as soldiers attempted to arrest Tubasi, a crowd gathered and began attacking them with gunfire, petrol bombs and improvised explosives.

              "Amidst the turmoil, the target of the activity was identified attempting to flee the area. The security forces managed to detain the suspect using live fire," the statement said.

              It said that troops also had shot and wounded one of the rioters, who was taken to an Israeli hospital.

              The Israeli military spokesman, Peter Lerner, said there would be a review of the incident.

              "The ongoing terrorist threat from the Jenin area requires that the IDF (Israeli army) maintains operational access to the area," Lerner was quoted as saying on a blog by the Israeli army.

              Last month, two Palestinians were killed in clashes during an arrest raid in Jenin.

              Gaza incursion

              In a separate development, Israeli forces made a limited incursion east of Khan Younis in the southern Gaza Strip.

              Local residents said that several military vehicles, including bulldozers, penetrated 200 metres east of Khuza'a village and bulldozed lands along the security fence and moved north towards the neighbourhood of Abasan.

              They also said that Palestinian fighters deployed in the area fired at the Israeli forces who were said to be firing randomly towards agricultural fields.

              Israel decided to close the Karam Abu Salem crossing into the Gaza Strip on Wednesday (to be re-opened on Sunday) before of the Jewish holiday of Sukkot, Raed Fattouh, the head of the Coordination Committee for entry of goods in the Gaza Strip, said.

              Karam Abu Salem, the only commercial crossing operating in Gaza for the entry of goods, aids and fuel is closed every Friday and Saturday.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                See my above post, preceding this and note that as we "Yanks" put it, you are so clueless and miss informed that you are what we call "way out in left field"!



                Some would say this has come up as an idea for out of the box solutions. Scripture of Islam leaves no room for 'Reformation', such as occurred with Christianity. That leaves the avenue of invalidation of the scripture as one possible solution.

                One could hope that the were the Kaaba to be strike by something falling out of the sky, that the Will of Allah will be more merciful of innocents than it was on Sept. 11,2001.



                All available material and evidence would show that Muslims are Islamic, believers and practicioners of Islam. You have not presented any material or evidence to the contrary.
                Oh oh repeat yourself like Scratched cd. 11'9 11'9 .. So what ? Only 2000 died, what about whole globe in this moment, how much people died ? Maybe every week 2000 New deaths in Syria but noone cares, but when it comes to americans you want that whole world to cry. Who Cares about 2000 americans, your government killed them anyway ? Go and sue Bush for that.

                Second, dont speak about things you know nothing ! Church already lost its power that was "Reformation" and Free thinking came. We muslims are chained with evil leaders and Armies supprted by your terrorist country. Our reformation is revolution ! Your troops are Allrounders in middle east, our "leaders" allowed them to settle.
                Whish that Kaaba get hit as much as you want, aint gonna happen.

                Remember, you gonna loose this war against ISLAM, and your little horn israel, your troops gonna Return home in horisontal position or in pieces. Muslims already awakening and bleeding to bring their real constitution back, united and they will not stop ! Black Flags from the direction of Khorosan comming. From Mali to Philipines, people fighting for changes.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Omar View Post
                  Oh oh repeat yourself like Scratched cd. 11'9 11'9 .. So what ? Only 2000 died, what about whole globe in this moment, how much people died ? Maybe every week 2000 New deaths in Syria but noone cares, but when it comes to americans you want that whole world to cry. Who Cares about 2000 americans, your government killed them anyway ? Go and sue Bush for that.

                  Second, dont speak about things you know nothing ! Church already lost its power that was "Reformation" and Free thinking came. We muslims are chained with evil leaders and Armies supprted by your terrorist country. Our reformation is revolution ! Your troops are Allrounders in middle east, our "leaders" allowed them to settle.
                  Whish that Kaaba get hit as much as you want, aint gonna happen.

                  Remember, you gonna loose this war against ISLAM, and your little horn israel, your troops gonna Return home in horisontal position or in pieces. Muslims already awakening and bleeding to bring their real constitution back, united and they will not stop ! Black Flags from the direction of Khorosan comming. From Mali to Philipines, people fighting for changes.

                  2,977 actually. Whilst I take your point about some Americans who raise such a massive outcry over American dead but are indifferent (or worse) to foreign dead - you are little better.

                  As for the black flags nonsense what you fail to realise is that you are doing exactly the same as our neo-conservative, right wing members who make all Muslims out to be of the same ilk. Not all Muslims, by a long shot, agree with Islamism or want to see it in power. Many Muslims are little more than Muslims in name only, many believe strongly, many go to the mosque at Eid and that is it, many fast and do not eat pork and there are those who would abandon it if they could.

                  If you look at the history of Islamist parties and movements most of them have had to struggle or fight against non-religious groups. This will be a generational thing but most religions lose their power and importance in society at some point - and many of these groups have some success and resonance because of additional factors.

                  Ultimately education is one of the keys - provide children with a fact based, intellectually challenging and honest curriculum and you will begin to see changes. It really will be a generations long effort but in the majority of places you will lose. After all at some point the logic of invisible fairies in the air telling us what to do and how to do it does become ridiculous.

                  And whilst you are bleating about America this, Israel that please remember that plenty of Muslims are responsible for the state of things too. And plenty of Muslim states and societies have oppressed Muslims and non-Muslims alike in pursuit of their own national interests.

                  What exactly is the problem with free thinking - makes it too easy to challenge the load of nonsense the religious spew perhaps?
                  "Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it"
                  G.B Shaw

                  "They promised us homes fit for heroes, they give us heroes fit for homes."
                  Grandad, Only Fools and Horses

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Sergio View Post
                    2,977 actually. Whilst I take your point about some Americans who raise such a massive outcry over American dead but are indifferent (or worse) to foreign dead - you are little better.

                    As for the black flags nonsense what you fail to realise is that you are doing exactly the same as our neo-conservative, right wing members who make all Muslims out to be of the same ilk. Not all Muslims, by a long shot, agree with Islamism or want to see it in power. Many Muslims are little more than Muslims in name only, many believe strongly, many go to the mosque at Eid and that is it, many fast and do not eat pork and there are those who would abandon it if they could.

                    If you look at the history of Islamist parties and movements most of them have had to struggle or fight against non-religious groups. This will be a generational thing but most religions lose their power and importance in society at some point - and many of these groups have some success and resonance because of additional factors.

                    Ultimately education is one of the keys - provide children with a fact based, intellectually challenging and honest curriculum and you will begin to see changes. It really will be a generations long effort but in the majority of places you will lose. After all at some point the logic of invisible fairies in the air telling us what to do and how to do it does become ridiculous.

                    And whilst you are bleating about America this, Israel that please remember that plenty of Muslims are responsible for the state of things too. And plenty of Muslim states and societies have oppressed Muslims and non-Muslims alike in pursuit of their own national interests.

                    What exactly is the problem with free thinking - makes it too easy to challenge the load of nonsense the religious spew perhaps?
                    I Agree almost everything you said. Only free thinking and science can get the best from faith, Interpret it on real way and stop bad people using it for Self-political purpouses. Now, islam is used to Control some people though their emotions.


                    You must understand that we comming on this forum in different "condition". If i opet this thread and read the post Full of hatred, written by a guy who wish meteor over Mekka and same time makin pressure that all of us cry for american people who are more precious then people of Myanmar for example . That is why i reacted like that

                    , every normal human on this planet will distance himself from terror, but why the hell whole world must know what happened on 11.09 but at the same time 0 europeans knows what happened in Europe on 11.07 when more then 8000 died ?


                    No american has more value then other man so they re Boring with 11'09, like, its only happened to them.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Omar View Post
                      Oh oh repeat yourself like Scratched cd. 11'9 11'9 .. So what ? Only 2000 died, what about whole globe in this moment, how much people died ? Maybe every week 2000 New deaths in Syria but noone cares, but when it comes to americans you want that whole world to cry. Who Cares about 2000 americans, your government killed them anyway ? Go and sue Bush for that.

                      Second, dont speak about things you know nothing ! Church already lost its power that was "Reformation" and Free thinking came. We muslims are chained with evil leaders and Armies supprted by your terrorist country. Our reformation is revolution ! Your troops are Allrounders in middle east, our "leaders" allowed them to settle.
                      Whish that Kaaba get hit as much as you want, aint gonna happen.

                      Remember, you gonna loose this war against ISLAM, and your little horn israel, your troops gonna Return home in horisontal position or in pieces. Muslims already awakening and bleeding to bring their real constitution back, united and they will not stop ! Black Flags from the direction of Khorosan comming. From Mali to Philipines, people fighting for changes.
                      Well, okay then.

                      Comment


                      • Well it is interesting. Is Omar what we would consider a moderate moslem?
                        Wisdom is personal

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Omar View Post
                          Remember, you gonna loose this war against ISLAM, and your little horn israel, your troops gonna Return home in horisontal position or in pieces. Muslims already awakening and bleeding to bring their real constitution back, united and they will not stop ! Black Flags from the direction of Khorosan comming. From Mali to Philipines, people fighting for changes.
                          War to the Knife huh?

                          Sounds good to me.

                          Lets do it.
                          "The blade itself incites to deeds of violence".

                          Homer


                          BoRG

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Karri View Post
                            Well it is interesting. Is Omar what we would consider a moderate moslem?
                            Im not trying to satisfy you or someone else. For you, moderate muslim would be the one who would be like Hippie after seeing all that hell in which are muslims today, someone who would just move his Head and tell yes Sir yes Sir. Guy wrote it on public about meteor on Mekka, its normal that i react.
                            Funny thing that noone mentioning that as "moderate"

                            Im gonna say what i mean and really dont care what someone think about me.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Captain General View Post
                              War to the Knife huh?

                              Sounds good to me.

                              Lets do it.
                              Not here.
                              Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

                              Questions about our site? See the FAQ.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by GCoyote View Post
                                Not here.
                                I agree.

                                I'm talking real world, not ACG.

                                Also, not sure why I'm being warned for responding to a threat made against my country and our soldiers by someone my country and I would consider an enemy who would be killed on the battlefield by the very soldiers he threatens by saying they'll come back dead or disabled in a war of "black flags" carried forward against us by Islam.

                                Just my two cents.
                                Last edited by Captain General; 21 Sep 13, 02:40.
                                "The blade itself incites to deeds of violence".

                                Homer


                                BoRG

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