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  • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
    Thanks for proving my point

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    • Interestingly, I don't find Babak orignial interview on TASS site. Just reprints in other places.
      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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      • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
        "http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/" This is the official Shukoi site, not wiki. I provide it once again, this time try to read it...

        http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/
        It provides the service ceiling. It says nothing regarding the use of weapons above this altitude.
        There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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        • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
          Thanks for proving my point
          You have shown nothing, proved nothing, simply engaged in cheap forum "debating", your posts have all been reactionary and vapour, you have not even knocked any of the technical data which demolishes what your "argument" hangs on.

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          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
            Interestingly, I don't find Babak orignial interview on TASS site. Just reprints in other places.
            Interview was first published by a German media if I'm not mistaken.

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            • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
              Interview was first published by a German media if I'm not mistaken.
              It would be good to find the original source and look at the whole interview.
              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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              • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
                You have shown nothing, proved nothing, simply engaged in cheap forum "debating", your posts have all been reactionary and vapour.
                Of course.

                #1 Have you adressed the problem rose by your assertion leading to Shukoi mishandling service ceiling by 30 % ? No.

                #2 Have you recognized that Babak, a source called by you, state clearly altitudes incompatible with your initial claim ? No

                #3 Have you recognized that the same Babak, once again cited by you, state clearly that for him, in no way a SU-25 could be the cause of the shoot down ? No.

                Proved and ignored....

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                • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                  It would be good to find the original source and look at the whole interview.
                  May be but that would change nothing, Babak state what everyone with a minimal interest for avionics knew since the beginning : wing lift could not permit a SU-25 to conduct a combat action at MH 17 altitude. No need for a political explanation, only standard physics.

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                  • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
                    Of course.

                    #1 Have you adressed the problem rose by your assertion leading to Shukoi mishandling service ceiling by 30 % ? No.

                    #2 Have you recognized that Babak, a source called by you, state clearly altitudes incompatible with your initial claim ? No

                    #3 Have you recognized that the same Babak, once again cited by you, state clearly that for him, in no way a SU-25 could be the cause of the shoot down ? No.

                    Proved and ignored....
                    What incomprehensible nonsense!
                    Babak has admitted that SU-25 is capable of taking down MH17 with a capable pilot, it is for you to knock him down, not me, as I only transmit what he says. Knock down the technical information that shows SU-25 capable of taking down MH17, and that is what this is about....

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                    • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
                      May be but that would change nothing, Babak state what everyone with a minimal interest for avionics knew since the beginning : wing lift could not permit a SU-25 to conduct a combat action at MH 17 altitude. No need for a political explanation, only standard physics.
                      He stated that is unlikely, not impossible.
                      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                      • Couple of things you seem to be missing.

                        (i) Performance specs for the aircraft state it clearly that with external armaments it ain't going to be reaching 10 km.

                        (ii) Su-25 does have internal cannon (which unlike externally carried junk doesn't cause drag or reduce lift)

                        (iii) Since the service ceiling of the aircraft without carrying external weapons was just 7 000 m the climb rate above 7 000 meters would be atrocious. With externally carried weapons it would be even worse if it even could reach such an altitude before hitting the absolute ceiling.

                        Which combines into (a) Su-25 can technically shoot down an airliner flying at 10 km, (b) it can't do so while packing missiles, (c) it can't do it by swiftly climbing to meet the airliner since the climb rate beyond the service ceiling is so bad.

                        The basic math part:
                        10 000 meters - 7 000 meters = 3 000 meters... 500 ft per minute is roughly 150 meters per minute meaning that at 7 000 Su-25 without externally carried weapons can climb at that rate. Assuming - falsely - that same rate would hold higher up (it actually gets progressively worse) we get that even without externally carried weapons it would take 3 000 <meters> / 150 <meters/min> = 20 minutes to make that 'hike'. Which returns us to the earlier ghost plane stuff since that would require Su-25 making a steady climb openly for well over 20 minutes (in addition to the time it took for it to reach 7 000 meters in the first place) right in front of the Russian radar - that had no difficulty of seeing the MH-17 - while managing to stay undetected in an aircraft that has no stealth what-so-ever.
                        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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                        • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
                          What incomprehensible nonsense!
                          Babak has admitted that SU-25 is capable of taking down MH17 with a capable pilot, it is for you to knock him down, not me, as I only transmit what he says. Knock down the technical information that shows SU-25 capable of taking down MH17, and that is what this is about....
                          ""I believe that all allegations of the Su-25 involvement in the tragedy are an attempt to cover tracks. I can't explain it in any other way. We do not understand how a Su-25 could shoot down a Boeing""

                          If Babak admit, as you claim, that the SU-25 could shoot down MH-17, what mean the bold red sentence ?

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                          • Originally posted by Emtos View Post
                            He stated that is unlikely, not impossible.
                            """I believe that all allegations of the Su-25 involvement in the tragedy are an attempt to cover tracks. I can't explain it in any other way. We do not understand how a Su-25 could shoot down a Boeing"""

                            If as you claim, Babak stated only as 'unlikely, not impossible' what mean the red bold sentence ?

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                            • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
                              """I believe that all allegations of the Su-25 involvement in the tragedy are an attempt to cover tracks. I can't explain it in any other way. We do not understand how a Su-25 could shoot down a Boeing"""

                              If as you claim, Babak stated only as 'unlikely, not impossible' what mean the red bold sentence ?
                              He says that is difficult, not impossible.

                              http://www.gazeta.ru/social/news/201..._6347093.shtml
                              There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                              • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
                                ""I believe that all allegations of the Su-25 involvement in the tragedy are an attempt to cover tracks. I can't explain it in any other way. We do not understand how a Su-25 could shoot down a Boeing""

                                If Babak admit, as you claim, that the SU-25 could shoot down MH-17, what mean the bold red sentence ?
                                Babak is misquoted as he talks about not seing how Ukranian pilot could have acheived this, and he tacitly admits it is technically possible for an SU-25 with a good pilot to have taken down MH17. This has been pointed out to you several times and you refuse to acknowledge what he actually said. But hey, you made a bold red post, so case close, eh, pffft

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