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  • http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/new...-1227233702395
    Wisdom is personal

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    • Cassad has posted a very detailed analysis of what may have downed MH17. Yes yes, I know it all needs translating, but it is worth reading as this information simply does not get published in western media. Rozhin has made his analysis on the basis of photos taken by Dutch journalist and of the known characteristics of what a strike by a BUK would look like and what a strike by a combination of air to air missile R-60M and 23-mm cannon fire would look like. Rozhin concludes that MH17 was taken down by air to air missile and cannon fire. Yes, I know all this has been debated to death and that positions on this forum will not be changed, but this analysis is more detailed than before as it uses more source material. In the comments under the article it is pointed out that it is technically possible for an SU-25 to reach the hight and necessary speed to have attacked MH-17. This is compelling analysis, for instance the evidence to show that the holes we see in the crucial pieces of aircraft skin wreckage from around the cockpit, and the injuries to the body of the pilot, indicate cannon fire, not BUK fragments as is always mentioned, and some may be the result of rivets being "popped" at some force due to explosive decompression. However, on my personal opinion, I prefer to wait for more data, the "black box" information for instance, and 100% true radar and air control data from Kiev, Rostov and I think also Volgograd, also data from any AWACS that may have been in range and satellite data, but around such data the arguments will hang, and likely for many years.... http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2077046.html
      Last edited by Khepesh; 05 Mar 15, 06:53.

      Comment


      • This is more likely the reason Dutch authorities may be hesitant for full disclosure,

        http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archive...to-mh17-crash/

        much more interesting than "Who shot it down ?" is of course the "Why was it even there ?"
        Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

        Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
          Cassad has posted a very detailed analysis of what may have downed MH17. Yes yes, I know it all needs translating, but it is worth reading as this information simply does not get published in western media. Rozhin has made his analysis on the basis of photos taken by Dutch journalist and of the known characteristics of what a strike by a BUK would look like and what a strike by a combination of air to air missile R-60M and 23-mm cannon fire would look like. Rozhin concludes that MH17 was taken down by air to air missile and cannon fire. Yes, I know all this has been debated to death and that positions on this forum will not be changed, but this analysis is more detailed than before as it uses more source material. In the comments under the article it is pointed out that it is technically possible for an SU-25 to reach the hight and necessary speed to have attacked MH-17. This is compelling analysis, for instance the evidence to show that the holes we see in the crucial pieces of aircraft skin wreckage from around the cockpit, and the injuries to the body of the pilot, indicate cannon fire, not BUK fragments as is always mentioned, and some may be the result of rivets being "popped" at some force due to explosive decompression. However, on my personal opinion, I prefer to wait for more data, the "black box" information for instance, and 100% true radar and air control data from Kiev, Rostov and I think also Volgograd, also data from any AWACS that may have been in range and satellite data, but around such data the arguments will hang, and likely for many years.... http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2077046.html
          You can believe what you want but the real investigation is continuing:

          Dutch investigation into #MH17 points to direction with "Buk" missile taking down the jet, says NOS channel
          http://nos.nl/artikel/2022540-aivd-h...team-mh17.html

          Some interesting sidelights on the problems of mixing criminal investigations and intelligence work; plus suggestions that Russian security services are trying to hack and disrupt the investigation.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
            Cassad has posted a very detailed analysis of what may have downed MH17....
            And nicely glosses over the few things the investigation has already revealed such as that the high energy particles came from outside of the aircraft from a point in front of the aircraft. Not from behind. In addition the cockpit floor was punctured from above, not from below... If this so called 'Cassad' ignores those then there is really nothing to discuss about this conspiracy theory of his.
            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Aber View Post
              You can believe what you want but the real investigation is continuing:



              http://nos.nl/artikel/2022540-aivd-h...team-mh17.html

              Some interesting sidelights on the problems of mixing criminal investigations and intelligence work; plus suggestions that Russian security services are trying to hack and disrupt the investigation.
              Yeah, whatever.....

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
                Cassad has posted a very detailed analysis of what may have downed MH17. Yes yes, I know it all needs translating, but it is worth reading as this information simply does not get published in western media. Rozhin has made his analysis on the basis of photos taken by Dutch journalist and of the known characteristics of what a strike by a BUK would look like and what a strike by a combination of air to air missile R-60M and 23-mm cannon fire would look like. Rozhin concludes that MH17 was taken down by air to air missile and cannon fire. Yes, I know all this has been debated to death and that positions on this forum will not be changed, but this analysis is more detailed than before as it uses more source material. In the comments under the article it is pointed out that it is technically possible for an SU-25 to reach the hight and necessary speed to have attacked MH-17. This is compelling analysis, for instance the evidence to show that the holes we see in the crucial pieces of aircraft skin wreckage from around the cockpit, and the injuries to the body of the pilot, indicate cannon fire, not BUK fragments as is always mentioned, and some may be the result of rivets being "popped" at some force due to explosive decompression. However, on my personal opinion, I prefer to wait for more data, the "black box" information for instance, and 100% true radar and air control data from Kiev, Rostov and I think also Volgograd, also data from any AWACS that may have been in range and satellite data, but around such data the arguments will hang, and likely for many years.... http://colonelcassad.livejournal.com/2077046.html
                The some old tired debunked theory. There are several posts in this section that show clearly and lift any doubt about SU-25 as cause : this is simply against known aerodynamic.

                But once again do the math yourself. SU-25 cannon fire a round about every 0.2 s, in which time MH-17 flew 5 meters. No way to have concentrated shots on the cockpit alone. No gun.

                R-60 is a IR missile (that a SU-25 cannot carry above 7.000 m according to Shukoi, its manufacturer) which head towards engines. Photos of both engines are available and none show puncture damage. No IR missile.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Metryll View Post
                  The some old tired debunked theory. There are several posts in this section that show clearly and lift any doubt about SU-25 as cause : this is simply against known aerodynamic.

                  But once again do the math yourself. SU-25 cannon fire a round about every 0.2 s, in which time MH-17 flew 5 meters. No way to have concentrated shots on the cockpit alone. No gun.

                  R-60 is a IR missile (that a SU-25 cannot carry above 7.000 m according to Shukoi, its manufacturer) which head towards engines. Photos of both engines are available and none show puncture damage. No IR missile.
                  Well, I did write that I prefer to wait for more data...

                  However, you need to read Rozhin's article as it contains photos of one of the engines casing with holes in it that are not from BUK, but he says are from R-60M, and SU-25 can be equiped with four GS-23 cannon which gives nearly twenty rounds per second, and damage to the cockpit seats and pilots bodies is from the rear, as the photos clearly show. You may not like analysis such as this, but I don't hear any fat lady singing yet, so let's wait for the report to see who is true.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
                    However, you need to read Rozhin's article as it contains photos of one of the engines casing with holes in it that are not from BUK, but he says are from R-60M, and SU-25 can be equiped with four GS-23 cannon which gives nearly twenty rounds per second
                    SU-25 in clean (without any external ordnance) configuration can barely reach 10 km - with the load you are describing it would not. Not by a long shot. And while '20 rounds per second' might sound impressive to you it wouldn't hurt for you to remember that the aircraft was traveling at 250 meters per second. Which shows that between individual shells from the cannon you describe the aircraft would move forward more than 10 meters - so the 'concentrated burst to cockpit' is nothing but a delusion.
                    ...damage to the cockpit seats and pilots bodies is from the rear, as the photos clearly show.
                    No it doesn't. It only shows that there is damage in the rear of the seats not that it would have come from the rear.
                    You may not like analysis such as this, but I don't hear any fat lady singing yet, so let's wait for the report to see who is true.
                    And while you may not like it there is nothing to indicate that the post linked to is nothing but hogwash.
                    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                    Comment


                    • PLEASE DON'T RESORT TO PERSONAL ATTACKS

                      Duncan (ACG Admin)
                      Last edited by Duncan; 10 Mar 15, 15:33.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
                        Stop trolling with your worthless hogwash....
                        Khepesh, you're the one posting old bs conspiracy theories that have been debunked with this same evidence many times already. Instead of calling him a troll why don't you disprove him? If you can that is.

                        Also please show some proof that the damage to the pilots/their seats came from rear. Don't read russian so your link is useless to me.
                        Wisdom is personal

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Karri View Post
                          Khepesh, you're the one posting old bs conspiracy theories that have been debunked with this same evidence many times already. Instead of calling him a troll why don't you disprove him? If you can that is.

                          Also please show some proof that the damage to the pilots/their seats came from rear. Don't read russian so your link is useless to me.
                          Don't like what I post, then don't read, besides, I made it clear it is Rozhin's work, not mine, post complaints about his theory on Cassad, please....
                          I have no intention of translating his long article into English, the link is for those interested and who are prepared to use translator. How can there be complaints simply for linking to an article and providing a brief synopsis of the major points? and this part of my original post is ignored my all those who have attacked it, I wonder why.....
                          I prefer to wait for more data,

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
                            Well, I did write that I prefer to wait for more data...
                            Wait for what ? Data on SU-25 are quite well know, the bird fly since the 70's.

                            However, you need to read Rozhin's article, but he says are from R-60M, and SU-25 can be equiped with four GS-23 cannon which gives nearly twenty rounds per second, and damage to the cockpit seats and pilots bodies is from the rear, as the photos clearly show. ...
                            Why not from a BUK ? How Rozhin reach such a conclusion ? The aft part of aircraft was cut off. A R-60 warhead is about 3.5 kg, BUK is about 70 kg. How the smaller charge could deal more damage than the bigger ?

                            Four GS-23 aboard a SU-25 ?

                            "Service ceiling (without external ordnance and stores), km 7"

                            http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su25k/lth/

                            Either Shukhoi is wrong or Rozhin's is wrong.

                            You may not like analysis such as this, but I don't hear any fat lady singing yet, so let's wait for the report to see who is true.
                            In other words we should read the article but not discuss it's validity.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Khepesh View Post
                              Don't like what I post, then don't read, besides, I made it clear it is Rozhin's work, not mine, post complaints about his theory on Cassad, please....
                              I have no intention of translating his long article into English, the link is for those interested and who are prepared to use translator. How can there be complaints simply for linking to an article and providing a brief synopsis of the major points? and this part of my original post is ignored my all those who have attacked it, I wonder why.....
                              When you post something you decide it's worth posting, if you refuse to defend your point of view after posting this then don't post it. Especially since it's been refuted several times already...and I don't see why I need to go discuss it to Cassad when it's not Cassad posting it here.
                              Wisdom is personal

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Karri View Post
                                When you post something you decide it's worth posting, if you refuse to defend your point of view after posting this then don't post it. Especially since it's been refuted several times already...and I don't see why I need to go discuss it to Cassad when it's not Cassad posting it here.
                                Refuted only by Kiev "supporters" desperate to drown out any opinions not their own. The experts on capabilities on SU-25 are the pilots who have flown them, and I do not see any on this forum.
                                Last edited by Khepesh; 11 Mar 15, 03:10.

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