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  • #16
    Originally posted by MarkV View Post
    Pish - Fukushima isn't in the USA but Chernobyl was in the USSR at the time and the nuclear plant was under the control of a Moscow based nuclear authority - nothing like
    Well, the head of the Moscow based nuclear authority was a Jew born in Ukraine. The man who designed RBMK-type nuclear reactor was a Czech born in Ukraine. The head of the Chernobyl station was a Russian born in Uzbekistan. The head of the Soviet Communist Party in 1986 was a half-Ukrainian who couldn't speak Russian without a heavy accent. Etc, etc. Soviet Union was a multi-national and multi-cultural country. Deal with it.


    • #17
      Tchernenko died in 1985.
      There are no Nazis in Ukraine. Idiots


      • #18
        Originally posted by Emtos View Post

        Chernobyl was in Ukraine. 50% of Soviet population wasn' Russian. Disaster happened because of a combination of different circumstances. Blame USSR or Russia is like blaming USA for Fukushima.
        Anatoly Stepanovich Dyatlov, a Russian engineer was in charge of the testing at Chernobyl that led to the disaster. His insistence on performing a test designed for civil defense in which the reactor is run after shutdown due to loss of control power as might happen in a war or natural disaster caused the problem. Rather than run the test as usual, he had the operators hold the reactor at about 2% power. That led to a spontaneous combustion of the graphite moderator due to lack of cooling water. The water passing through the reactor couldn't remove the heat as all of it was concentrated in the very bottom of the pile rather than through out it as normal.
        That led to the explosion that destroyed the reactor when gasses built up and couldn't escape.

        The reactor was a Russian design. Nowhere else in the world were graphite moderated fast fission reactors being used for commercial purposes. The reason for this is that they create plutonium, lots of plutonium, as a byproduct of operation. That means that this sort of reactor can make nuclear weapons material. It also presents a massive horrible clean up mess when taken out of service as you now have tons upon tons of highly radioactive graphite to deal with.
        But, this type of reactor works with unenriched uranium fuel and is cheap to produce and cheap to run. The Soviets also saw the plutonium production as a bonus feature.
        But, these reactors are dangerous to run at low power or shifting power loading. Worse, they have a positive
        ∆T that makes the reactor dangerous because as it gets hotter it runs better so it doesn't self-shut down like boiling water and pressurized water reactors do.

        So, Russia (aka the Soviet Union) did cause the disaster. Russia designed the reactor. Russia put their man in charge of it.

        There was no "combination of different circumstances," just one reason. One man, a Russian selected by Moscow, was in charge at Chernobyl on that shift and he and he alone decided to do testing in a manner that deviated from the manual. In fact, several of the operators made suggestions and statements that what he was doing was ill-advised-- at least to the extent they could. But Dyatlov ignored them and the reactor blew up.


        • #19
          Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
          The reactor was a Russian design.
          The reactor was a Soviet design, the chief designer and the head of the Institute that designed it was N.A. Dolezhal - by his origin a Czech born in Ukraine.
          So, Russia (aka the Soviet Union)
          Russia was not Soviet Union, and Soviet Union was not Russia. Russian Republic was one of the parts of Soviet Union, albeit the largest one. Basically the relation was just like between England and UK. Soviet Union's government and other leadership were not "Russian" but all-Union and were of mixed ethnicity and origin. The same applies to nuclear industry and research - they were Soviet not "Russian", and as already explained people of Ukrainian origin were very prominent there.
          Last edited by Artyom_A; 04 Sep 19, 06:20.


          • #20
            Originally posted by Emtos View Post
            Tchernenko died in 1985.
            I was talking about Gorbachev, actually. But thanks for bringing this up, Gorbachev's predecessor (Chernenko) was a Ukrainian born in Siberia, his predecessor (Andropov) was a half-Jewish, born in Russia. His predecessor (Brezhnev) was a Ukrainian born in Ukraine. Again, Soviet leadership was not a "Russian" leadership. it consisted of people drawn from the entire Union and having varying ethnicity and origin.


            • #21
              Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
              The same applies to nuclear industry and research - they were Soviet not "Russian", and as already explained people of Ukrainian origin were very prominent there.
              Worth to add about Soviet energy industry:
              - until 22.03.85 its minister in the Soviet government was Pyotr Neporozhniy born in Ukraine in 1910 who until moving to the Ministry was a member of the Ukrainian government for several years.
              - his successor appointed on 22.3.85 was Anatoly Mayrorets, again a Ukrainian, who worked on the electric station in Zaporozhye, Ukraine for many years, until being promoted to the level of the Union government
              - the USSR's Ministry of Energy Industry was supervised by the deputy head of the Soviet government Boris Shcherbina. Who was (what a surprise) a Ukrainian born in Ukraine, worked in Ukraine for many years, then moved to Siberia, then moved to the Union government in Moscow.
              Those were "Russian" authorities in Moscow who controlled the Chernobyl station. How that makes clear why people calling the Soviet government "Russian" are idiots.


              • #22
                Well I guess that means that russia cant claim victory over Nazi Germany since that was directed by a bunch of Georgian thugs.I guess russia can't claim to have the first man in space,

                This line of reasoning in plain bull hockey.
                russia inherited the UN seat and the international assets (ie embassies) of the former Soviet Union.
                russia has apologized for Soviet war crimes such as the Katyn massacre and both Korean airline massacres.
                One cant cherry pick accomplishments (the good) without accepting responsibility for the mistakes.

                In soviet times, yes there were constituent republics, but no they did not deviate from what Moscow commanded. Yes, the soviets promoted people of different backgrounds to positions of authority, but these people did not assume authority for the glory of the basis of the Central Committee of Kazakhstan, they did so in spite of their being Beylorussian, or Armenian or such. In fact, they often had to fight the stereotypes of their heritage.


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Krasny Strela View Post
                  Well I guess that means that russia cant claim victory over Nazi Germany since that was directed by a bunch of Georgian thugs.I guess russia can't claim to have the first man in space,
                  Soviet Union can claim, of which Russia was a part. So, no problem here.
                  russia inherited the UN seat and the international assets (ie embassies) of the former Soviet Union
                  Should I repeat this 100 times? Russia is a legal heir of the Soviet Union only in matters relating to international treaties, membership in international organizations etc. In internal matters of the Soviet Union Russia is not different from other post-Soviet states. Like you it or not, that's a legal reality. For example, compensations and welfare to people who suffered as a result of Chernobyl is provided by Russia if they are Russian citizens, by Ukraine of they are Ukrainian citizens etc.


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Tuebor View Post

                    Do we even know the state of THRESHER and SCORPION's reactors?
                    They are still within expected limits, apparently. International guidelines for a decommissioned vessel specify that they should be below 3,000 metres under the sea... unlike K-27, that was dumped in less than 75 metres of water. Don't forget about the 17,000 containers of radioactive waste, 19 ships contaminated ships, and 14 nuclear reactors in the Kara Sea, made by the Soviets.
                    "In modern war... you will die like a dog for no good reason."
                    Ernest Hemingway.


                    • #25
                      Well, it is good news that so long as the radioactive material stays put, the radiation from any of that will extend just a few meters beyond the material itself. Water is a great absorber of radiation. Since none of that is an active fission / fusion source, the water doesn't become radioactive, it simply absorbs the energy from the radiation.

                      The danger is that the radioactive material begins to leak out and spread. That is a seriously dangerous problem.


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