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Did England or other Christian powers attempt to Rescue The Romanov Family?

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  • #31
    For a time, it was believed his name "Rasputin" meant "licentious" in Russian. Historians now believe that "Rasputin" meant "where two rivers meet," a phrase that describes an area near where he was born in Siberia.
    ...
    Although Rasputin was gone, the last of his prophecies was yet to unfold. Shortly before his death, he wrote to Nicholas to predict that if he were killed by government officials, the entire imperial family would be killed by the Russian people. His prophecy came true 15 months later, when the czar, his wife and all of their children were murdered by assassins amidst the Russian Revolution.


    https://www.biography.com/political-figure/rasputin
    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

    George S Patton

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

      The docudrama on Netflix that includes commentary by historian shows that Rasputin entered and learned the Christian religion in various monasteries across Russia. But you know more about history compared to me and I say that truthfully, other then wiki is there another source through the years you have came across that shows Rasputin did not have a religious education? This site suggests Rasputin failed to become a Monk, suggesting he attempted to become a Monk. It appears Rasputin attempted to become a Monk officially and was at the least viewed as a Monk or religious figure by Empress Alexandra.
      Rasputin may or may not have been a member of a cult (khlyst in Russian) that held that only through the commission of sin could one beg divine forgiveness. They were rumored to have gathered in the woods to perform what can only be called orgies. If not an actual member of a khlyst, Rasputin certainly knew of them and their beliefs -- and his personal life certainly seemed congruent with khlyst beliefs. One alleged cultist who really disliked Rasputin was Synod member Bishop Hermogenes, who Rasputin accused of beating the sh*t out of him: Hermogenes was a rather large man known for his physical strength, reputed by some to have resulted from his membership in the Skopsty, who believed that spiritual purity was attainable through castration.

      And to top it off, Rasputin suffered from genital warts, a viral ailment communicated by unprotected sex, akin to herpes. This guy, he wasn't exactly a role model . . . .
      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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      • #33
        Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

        Rasputin may or may not have been a member of a cult (khlyst in Russian) that held that only through the commission of sin could one beg divine forgiveness. They were rumored to have gathered in the woods to perform what can only be called orgies. If not an actual member of a khlyst, Rasputin certainly knew of them and their beliefs -- and his personal life certainly seemed congruent with khlyst beliefs. One alleged cultist who really disliked Rasputin was Synod member Bishop Hermogenes, who Rasputin accused of beating the sh*t out of him: Hermogenes was a rather large man known for his physical strength, reputed by some to have resulted from his membership in the Skopsty, who believed that spiritual purity was attainable through castration.

        And to top it off, Rasputin suffered from genital warts, a viral ailment communicated by unprotected sex, akin to herpes. This guy, he wasn't exactly a role model . . . .
        All that said, Rasputin himself was a believer in the faith that is what matters in the eyes of God. Yes it seems Rasputin had his controversies wrt his sex life but he still remains a Christian. The POTUS has a similar issue. Did Rasputin otoh ever do something truly bad like murder or similar? Regardless of the sins what man is perfect? In any event Rasputin according to this site did enter a monastery.

        Rasputin entered the Verkhoture Monastery in Russia with the intention of becoming a monk, but left shortly thereafter, presumably to get married. At age 19, he wed Proskovia Fyodorovna, and they later had three children (two others died shortly after birth). In his early 20s, however, Rasputin left his family and traveled to Greece and the Middle East, making several pilgrimages to the Holy Land.

        https://www.biography.com/political-figure/rasputin

        Rasputin played a role in the Russian Empire by his role in the lives of the Romanov family. Whats interesting about all of this is that Rasputin may have played a role in saving Prince Alexei in the summer of 1912.
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

          Interesting points on the Last Mughal, thanks.

          You talk about miracles, I believe in them as well. And to that point Empress Alexandra believed in Rasputin, the very monk that was said to be able to heal Prince Alexei whom suffered as a hemophiliac. Some to this day believe Rasputin was an actual healer...of course Rasputins enemies would disagree and would label the Monk with all sorts of names. As for what type of man Rasputin really was, perhaps only God knows. W/e the case in the summer of 1912, Prince Alexei was suffereing from a wound and at risk of death, nothing was working until the Monk Rasputin was called in, somehow someway after Rasputins visit Alexei recovered. Was it Luck? a Miracle of God? How can one know but either way its a very interesting case.

          As for the point about George V, history.com makes it appear very clear that George V played a main role in preventing his cousin Nicholas II from gaining refuge in England. And perhaps George V overlooked the situation not realizing that some Communists at least the ones that executed the Romanovs...were capable of very barbaric acts. Thats the issue for me here, history.com is a pro historian site, its not like Wikipedia. One should also keep in mind that at first in 1917 Nicholas and his family were under house arrest by the so called Provisional Gov led by Kerensky...Kerensky was said to be sympathetic to the Romanov family...the docudrama on Netlfix called The Last Csars shows this relationship. But once the Kerensky led Gov in Russia was overthrown by the Bolsheviks led by Lenin, things got much worse for the Romanov family, and the world knew of the Lenin led take over of Russia. So at that time Christians and the small minority of non Christians in Europe and the USA were learning of these issues, how do you think they would have reacted? Its safe that we can agree that Europe and the world as a whole was more religious then it is today. Churches were built and repaired in higher and higher numbers in England in the years 1880-1920 at least wrt the Catholics and the Church of England. So yes I agree with you that Christianity is not the main issue here. But the issue is that there is doubt that Christians all over the world thought of The faith and how to react in the Christian manner upon learning of the fate of the Romanov children and how the Empress tried to bless herself before execution

          http://www.brin.ac.uk/figures/church...ain-1801-1971/



          British plans to save the family fall through.

          Britain regretted the offer almost immediately. The government was nervous having the Romanovs on British shores, while George V’s private secretary, Lord Stamfordham, feared an uprising against the monarchy.

          The king soon urged the government to rescind the offer, leaving him open to claims that he abandoned his family for politics. “I think he’s been scapegoated for too long,” says Helen Rappaport, author of The Race to Save the Romanovs: The Truth Behind the Secret Plans to Rescue the Russian Imperial Family, adding, “[Not to] exonerate King George, not at all. He had a role he could have played more effectively…But the chips were down and they had to choose.”

          Other crowned heads of Europe—mainly Spain, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway—considered ways to rescue the family, but they all feared antagonizing the new government in Russia.


          https://www.history.com/news/romanov...tives-george-v



          As you point out Stalin allowed religion to sort of re surge in the USSR during the struggles of WW2. And as you point out life under the Tsar was difficult for some Russians. The very people whom would go on to revolt against the Tsar complained of poverty, lack of food and a general lack of dignity. So there were righteous complaints against the Tsar. But the way the Soviet Revolutionaries handled the Romanov family was very wrong imo. I know of the complaints against Nicholas II and fwiw one wont read of me praising Nicholas II but at the same time I feel for the demise of Nicholas II and his family. To this day Russian people pay homage to the executed Tsar, tens of thousands of Russians annually pay homage to the Romanovs, you can get the Christian feel of these ceremonies.




          People march as part of the Tsar’s Days celebrations – which commemorate Nicholas II, the last emperor of Russia, and his family – near Ekaterinburg in July 2017. (Photo by Donat SorokinTASS via Getty Images)

          The number of people commemorating the Tsar’s Days has rapidly grown every year. The early pilgrimages comprised of just a few thousand people; in 2017 they estimated crowds of as many as 60,000. On the tail end of the 2018 football World Cup, it is believed that as many as 200,000 people may flock to the city to commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Romanovs’ execution. This anniversary will undoubtedly be the largest public demonstration yet of the growing and irresistible significance of the Romanovs in the cultural, spiritual and emotional life of modern-day Russia


          https://www.historyextra.com/period/...-ekaterinburg/
          The Russians wanted reforms and they needed them fast.

          Things were not moving in proper speed.

          Since early 1820's Russians wanted reforms.

          read this :

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decembrist_revolt

          Decembrist Revolt / Short lived Revolution .

          In works of Communist Historians they call it First Breath of Freedom.

          Now Kerensky did set free the women who carried out first assassination attemp on Rasputin.

          Some also blame British Secret Service for Murder of Rasputin.

          As he was against War and proposing Peace with Germany . If true he was a threat to Both British and Bolsheviks.

          Bolsheviks wanted peace with Germany on their own term .

          The German role in October Revolution is not properly probed. Thats my belief.

          For the British Royalty proving that they are pure British was more important.

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          • #35
            On this day in July 1918 The Tsar and his family were executed by Soviet revolutionaries. What would follow in Russia would be the Soviet union. One may ask if imperial Russia survived the February revolution In 1917 would there have been a WW2 or at the least would Germany have gone after Russia.


            Either way today is a remarkable day. One can imagine at that precise moment when the gunman had drawn their guns and killed the czar what were the Romanov children thinking , it must have been a state of fear. But perhaps the Romanov family reunited in heaven after there killings
            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

            George S Patton

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by vikram72 View Post

              The Russians wanted reforms and they needed them fast.

              Things were not moving in proper speed.

              Since early 1820's Russians wanted reforms.

              read this :

              https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decembrist_revolt

              Decembrist Revolt / Short lived Revolution .

              In works of Communist Historians they call it First Breath of Freedom.

              Now Kerensky did set free the women who carried out first assassination attemp on Rasputin.

              Some also blame British Secret Service for Murder of Rasputin.

              As he was against War and proposing Peace with Germany . If true he was a threat to Both British and Bolsheviks.

              Bolsheviks wanted peace with Germany on their own term .

              The German role in October Revolution is not properly probed. Thats my belief.

              For the British Royalty proving that they are pure British was more important.
              Some have suggested Lenin was in the pay of the Germans.

              The German government was at war with Russia, but it nonetheless agreed to help Lenin return home. Germany saw “in this obscure fanatic one more bacillus to let loose in tottering and exhausted Russia to spread infection,” Crankshaw writes.

              On April 9, Lenin and his 31 comrades gathered at Zurich station. A group of about 100 Russians, enraged that the revolutionaries had arranged passage by negotiating with the German enemy, jeered at the departing company. “Provocateurs! Spies! Pigs! Traitors!” the demonstrators shouted, in a scene documented by historian Michael Pearson. “The Kaiser is paying for the journey....They’re going to hang you...like German spies.” (Evidence suggests that German financiers did, in fact, secretly fund Lenin and his circle.) As the train left the station, Lenin reached out the window to bid farewell to a friend. “Either we’ll be swinging from the gallows in three months or we shall be in power,” he predicted.


              https://www.smithsonianmag.com/trave...ver-180962127/

              Btw it seems clear Nicholas II would not have been able to find safe refuge in Kaiser Wilhelm II...even though Wilhelm was a grandchild of Queen Victoria as was the Tsars wife. While Germany and Russia were rivals and opponents in WW1, Kaiser Wilhelm II could have made a name for himself in some fashion if he would have done something to help the Romanov once Imperial Russia fell apart in February 1917.

              Wilhelm II and Germany were of course involved in a World War, WW1 that is against Russia, France and England. And Russia remained in WW1 for some time even after the Tsarist Gov fell in Feb of 1917, the Kerensky led gov was still involved in WW1. Russia pulled out of WW1 in March of 1918 though under Lenin and the Bolsheviks to the delight of Germany. Russia lost about 30% of its territory when it signed the peace treaty with Germany. Whats interesting in all of this is that the allies of WW1, the US and UK supported so called white movements that after the Soviet revolution tried to bring back the Russian Monarchy but that of course did not work out for the whites.

              https://www.sparknotes.com/biography/lenin/timeline/

              https://www.facinghistory.org/holoca...ssia-quits-war
              Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 17 Jul 19, 11:35.
              Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
              Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

              George S Patton

              Comment


              • #37
                With "Christians" like the Romanovs...
                Maybe if they had treated their people a little better and been more in touch with reality, there wouldn't have been a revolution...

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                  On this day in July 1918 The Tsar and his family were executed by Soviet revolutionaries. . . . . Either way today is a remarkable day. One can imagine at that precise moment when the gunman had drawn their guns and killed the czar what were the Romanov children thinking , it must have been a state of fear. But perhaps the Romanov family reunited in heaven after there killings
                  According to this guy, it was Luke 23:34: "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." The author ascribed that reproduction of their last quote to Yakov Mikhailovich Yurovsky, the officer in command of the Cheka detachment that executed the Imperial family in Yetkaterinburg.
                  I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                    "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." The author ascribed that reproduction of their last quote to Yakov Mikhailovich Yurovsky, the officer in command of the Cheka detachment that executed the Imperial family in Yetkaterinburg.
                    Delusional to the end... I'm far from a fan of the Reds, but the Czars were just as bad. Maybe worse, since they hid behind the cloak of doing God's work.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by johns624 View Post
                      Delusional to the end... I'm far from a fan of the Reds, but the Czars were just as bad. Maybe worse, since they hid behind the cloak of doing God's work.
                      Perhaps -- or they were simply following in a venerated tradition.


                      Be it not for me to raise my hand against my elder brother. Now that my father has passed away, let him take the place of my father in my heart - Proto-Martyr and Passion-Bearer St Boris
                      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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