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Did England or other Christian powers attempt to Rescue The Romanov Family?

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  • Did England or other Christian powers attempt to Rescue The Romanov Family?

    On July 17th, 1918 Emperor Nicholas II of Russia and his family were executed by the Soviet Revolutionaries after having been imprisoned by the Soviet Revolutionaries in the so called house of special purpose. The execution of the children was denied by the Soviet Gov through the rest of the decade and in the 1920s . One of the executed Children, Princess Anastasia was for years believed to have survived the execution of the Romanov Family...For years Impostors such as Anne Anderson claimed to be Anastasia but no one has ever been able to prove themselves to be Anastasia.

    Netflix has a good docudrama on The Romanov family called the Last Tsars...providing Historians telling what occurred in the times of the Tsar. And while I knew the Romanovs somewhat, the Docudrama reminded me of the highly Christian ways of the Emperor and his wife Empress Alexandra whom was the Granddaughter of Queen Victoria of England. Of Course Emperor Nicholas was the Cousin of King George V of England. The docudrama on netflix was very moving, showing how Empress Alexandra remained committed to her faith even until her day of execution. I have always been sympathetic to the Communists for the involvement in WW2 but something appeared to have gone terribly wrong on July 17th 1918, what exactly happened only God knows but it appears the Communists led by Yakov Yurosky executed the Romanov family in very criminal and brutal fashion.

    Such an execution caused bad taste for folks around the world interested in Communism. Lenin denied responsibility for the execution but there have been allegations Lenin was the top player behind the Romanov execution. As for the fateful day of July 17th 1918, when the Romanov family was executed...The Empress was said to have been praying for a Miracle, for perhaps a Knight to rescue her and her family. Which would lead me to ask, has anyone came across any information showing perhaps Englishmen whom whether they were Gov or Royalty or Common people...worked on a plan to rescue Emperor Nicholas II and his family before they were executed on July 17th 1918? Surely many English Christians, Catholic and Protestant were deeply concerned about the plight of at least the children of Nicholas II. One can perhaps understand the various Communists in Russia that were so poor and impoverished that they went on to oppose the Csar..but as for the execution of the Tsars Children this was an act similar to what we have heard the Barbarians , Vikings and Mongols were capable of. Though the docudrama on Netflix suggests some Communists tried to help The Romanov family when they were imprisoned, one Communist being executed for being close and helpful to one of the Romanov daughters.
    Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 13 Jul 19, 17:05.
    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

    George S Patton

  • #2
    There was a scheme to rescue the Russian Royal Family which would probably been successful: it was approved by Lloyd-George and his cabinet.However, King George V vetoed the plan. It's easy to condemn the King in hindsight but all the crowned heads in Europe were feeling nervous in 1918-with good reason.
    "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
    Samuel Johnson.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
      There was a scheme to rescue the Russian Royal Family which would probably been successful: it was approved by Lloyd-George and his cabinet.However, King George V vetoed the plan. It's easy to condemn the King in hindsight but all the crowned heads in Europe were feeling nervous in 1918-with good reason.
      Is it possible King George V felt the Communists would not execute the Romanov children? I wonder what was going through George Vs mind upon learning of the downfall of the Russian Empire along with the imprisonment of the Romanov family. Why did the King veto a rescue plan by the British PM? Surely Queen Victoria would have approved of a plan to rescue Nicholas II along with Victorias own granddaughter the Empress Alexandra. I know that in 1918 that the Tsar and Russia itself had its controversies. The country was undergoing a revolution at that time. But Even before the overthrow of the Tsar Russia was involved in a war with Japan in 1905 that ended up in a Japanese victory. The Russian Japanese War was said to damage the moral of the Russian people and the huge losses of Russians in WW1 did not help the last Tsar of Russia.

      I know Russia and England had there differences during the life of Nicholas II, but even In WW1 Russia and England were on the same side. Maybe I am missing something, King George was the cousin of Nicholas II, do you think King George may have later regretted his decision to not go forward with the attempt to rescue the Romanov family?

      I also admit that the Russian Imperialist times remind me of the great story The Nutcracker. Emperor Nicholas II and his wife in some way some may say remind me of The Nutcracker in the sense of how they faced there executors bravely. So to see the Romanov family executed as they were is unfortunate, especially the children, One can understand the opposition some Communists had to the Tsar, but the manner of the Execution was unacceptable IMO if it occurred as reported.
      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

      George S Patton

      Comment


      • #4
        There were armies in the field trying to reinstate the Romanoffs. They were sent there to make it difficult to free them. The counter-revolution did not last long after the Czar and family were executed. There is no clue as to why the British King nixed any rescue attempt.

        Pruitt
        Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

        Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

        by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

        Comment


        • #5
          The overriding reason why George V was,frankly,self-preservation,as I suggested. With crowned-heads about to topple all over Europe, he envisaged a similar fate for the House of Windsor,which might have been aggravated with the arrival of “ “Bloody Nicholas “”In hind-sight ,of course,it seems far-fetched and a total betrayal of family: -those pretty princesses and their tragic brother.
          "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
          Samuel Johnson.

          Comment


          • #6
            Russian Aristocracy was lagging behind as new ultra Rich Businessman were making mark on Society.

            Businessman and middle class favoured Democratic Republic.

            Those Russian who badly wanted Republic were used by Bolsheviks successfully.

            White Russians proved useless.

            The cold Iron discipline of Reds and their dedicated cader ultimately won the game .

            Many nations sent it's forces to Russia ,

            The Romanov's will be used as bargaining chips was the general impression,

            one should read diplomatic correspondence of that era.

            British had many clandestine ops going on in Russia between 1917 - 22.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by vikram72 View Post
              Russian Aristocracy was lagging behind as new ultra Rich Businessman were making mark on Society.

              Businessman and middle class favoured Democratic Republic.

              Those Russian who badly wanted Republic were used by Bolsheviks successfully.

              White Russians proved useless.

              The cold Iron discipline of Reds and their dedicated cader ultimately won the game .

              Many nations sent it's forces to Russia ,

              The Romanov's will be used as bargaining chips was the general impression,

              one should read diplomatic correspondence of that era.

              British had many clandestine ops going on in Russia between 1917 - 22.
              Most accounts show the Reds about as ill disciplined as any one else - certainly very factional
              Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe (H G Wells)
              Mit der Dummheit kaempfen Goetter selbst vergebens (Friedrich von Schiller)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                On July 17th, 1918 Emperor Nicholas II of Russia and his family were executed by the Soviet Revolutionaries after having been imprisoned by the Soviet Revolutionaries in the so called house of special purpose. The execution of the children was denied by the Soviet Gov through the rest of the decade and in the 1920s . One of the executed Children, Princess Anastasia was for years believed to have survived the execution of the Romanov Family...For years Impostors such as Anne Anderson claimed to be Anastasia but no one has ever been able to prove themselves to be Anastasia.

                Netflix has a good docudrama on The Romanov family called the Last Tsars...providing Historians telling what occurred in the times of the Tsar. And while I knew the Romanovs somewhat, the Docudrama reminded me of the highly Christian ways of the Emperor and his wife Empress Alexandra whom was the Granddaughter of Queen Victoria of England. Of Course Emperor Nicholas was the Cousin of King George V of England. The docudrama on netflix was very moving, showing how Empress Alexandra remained committed to her faith even until her day of execution. I have always been sympathetic to the Communists for the involvement in WW2 but something appeared to have gone terribly wrong on July 17th 1918, what exactly happened only God knows but it appears the Communists led by Yakov Yurosky executed the Romanov family in very criminal and brutal fashion.

                Such an execution caused bad taste for folks around the world interested in Communism. Lenin denied responsibility for the execution but there have been allegations Lenin was the top player behind the Romanov execution. As for the fateful day of July 17th 1918, when the Romanov family was executed...The Empress was said to have been praying for a Miracle, for perhaps a Knight to rescue her and her family. Which would lead me to ask, has anyone came across any information showing perhaps Englishmen whom whether they were Gov or Royalty or Common people...worked on a plan to rescue Emperor Nicholas II and his family before they were executed on July 17th 1918? Surely many English Christians, Catholic and Protestant were deeply concerned about the plight of at least the children of Nicholas II. One can perhaps understand the various Communists in Russia that were so poor and impoverished that they went on to oppose the Csar..but as for the execution of the Tsars Children this was an act similar to what we have heard the Barbarians , Vikings and Mongols were capable of. Though the docudrama on Netflix suggests some Communists tried to help The Romanov family when they were imprisoned, one Communist being executed for being close and helpful to one of the Romanov daughters.
                England was not a Christian power, because it did not fight for Christian principles , no one fought for Christian principles in WWI, or in WWII.
                And I like to see a proof that many English Christians,Catholic and Protestant were deeply concerned about the plight of at least the Children of the Tsar. Britain was at war , 670000 British soldiers died in this war .Passendaele ( Ypres 3 ) was going to start . Why should the British people be interested in the fate of Russian children , even if it had informations about what was happening in Russia, something I doubt .?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by BELGRAVE View Post
                  The overriding reason why George V was,frankly,self-preservation,as I suggested. With crowned-heads about to topple all over Europe, he envisaged a similar fate for the House of Windsor,which might have been aggravated with the arrival of “ “Bloody Nicholas “”In hind-sight ,of course,it seems far-fetched and a total betrayal of family: -those pretty princesses and their tragic brother.
                  Power in Britain did belong to government, not to the King, and the King was not responsible for his cousin and the wife and children of his cousin .
                  For a big part of the British population, the Tar was the same as the German Kaiser.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                    England was not a Christian power, because it did not fight for Christian principles , no one fought for Christian principles in WWI, or in WWII.
                    And I like to see a proof that many English Christians,Catholic and Protestant were deeply concerned about the plight of at least the Children of the Tsar. Britain was at war , 670000 British soldiers died in this war .Passendaele ( Ypres 3 ) was going to start . Why should the British people be interested in the fate of Russian children , even if it had informations about what was happening in Russia, something I doubt .?
                    You dont have to take interest into the plight of others, others do. And you have misinterpreted some of my points. I will say In England even to this day Royalty is celebrated in immense fashion. Whenever a new prince is born or similar huge crowds come out to the streets. I dont know where you live, but England has a history of Kings and Queens as does Russia. This topic is not about only Christianity, perhaps you are erroneously thinking it is, but there is no denying how Christianity plays a role in this topic not only on the Russian side but also the English.

                    England was a Christian country

                    https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/...rian/religion/

                    The fact is that historically Kings , Emperors, Queens and other heads of state have had to flee countries and find refuge elsewhere. It was viewed as Christian hospitality for countries to take on those fleeing. Its a core part of what makes Christians different from barbarians, Mongols or Vikings, or these Communists that executed the Romanov children which is viewed as Satantic or bloodthirsty. The right of passage if you will goes back to before Christianity, but Christianity also approves of giving safe passage or refuge to those fleeing injustice or violence.

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_asylum

                    To not care about the plight of children is something that goes against Christianity, its something some sort of vulgar and improper society would support. That is really the core part of this issue. Of course in a civilized European Christian country such an act of executing an entire family is barbaric, now one could also be non Christian and vehemently against the Execution of the Tsar and his family...

                    King George V had the power to allow the Romanov family refuge in England, but George V choose in the end to not allow the Romanovs into England.

                    His cousin King George V offered Nicholas II refuge, but then unexpectedly withdrew the offer

                    https://www.rbth.com/history/329281-...etray-nicholas
                    Last edited by Stonewall_Jack; 14 Jul 19, 11:24.
                    Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                    Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                    George S Patton

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have come across this. To the point about King George V afterthoughts on the execution of his cousin Emperor Nicholas II we have

                      IN LATE July 1918, as British forces slogged through the last months of a terrible war, King George V decreed that his court should wear mourning clothes for a month—not for his own country’s dead, but for a foreign sovereign whose demise in a remote place had just been confirmed. As Helen Rappaport vividly describes in “The Race to Save the Romanovs”, King George and Queen Mary then attended a memorial service at London’s only Russian Orthodox chapel. Amid the swirling incense and Slavonic chants, the royal couple visibly shared the mostly Russian congregation’s grief, not just for one slain monarch but for a dynasty and an era.

                      https://www.economist.com/books-and-...d-the-romanovs


                      In public King George V attended a Russian Church service dedicated to The Romanov family. And Iljadw this serves as a counter to your points. Its simply common sense that 1918 England and Europe as a whole was more Christian then it is today. In 19th century England there was many additional Churches built, Churches that would be packed for many decades to come. And while its true that so called secularism grew in the 19th and 20th century, the Churches remained and to this day Christians make up the largest religious population in the world.

                      http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/article...ntury-england/

                      The Newspapers worldwide covered the execution of the Romanov family, the brutal reported execution of the Romanov family sent shock waves around the world and provided a very very bad light on Communists. One should also give Russia of the modern times credit for what they have done to try and preserve the memory of the Romanov children, a Church has now been built at the very so called house of special purpose where the Romanovs were executed. .


                      Just to clarify this Iljadw so there is no misunderstanding. It is simply common sense that upon learning of the fate of the Romanov children, that Europe and America which in 1918 was overwhemingly Christian...would be against such mindless executions. Iljadw you said,

                      Why should the British people be interested in the fate of Russian children

                      In 1918, what do you imagine England to be? A country filled with those like the Communist non Christians that brutally executed the Romanov children, or perhaps England of that time was some rough society ran by criminals that brush off the execution of a family that ruled Russia for 300 years? The end of a Christian Era in Russia, taken over by Communists deeply worried many Christians across the world feeling that the Christian religion but also European society in general was under attack by Barbarian anarchists and Communists. Have you heard of the red scare? Do you know that Communists were opposed by Clergy in WW1 and WW2? This is basic knowledge buddy. Btw to me the Communists that executed the Romanov family were bad eggs one can say, even Christianity has followers whom are violent such as the clan but not all Christians or Communists were bad people. We can see though the execution of the Romanov by Communists turned many more Christians against Communism. But dont turn it into something else its not a discussion on Christianity but the point is that the execution of the Romanov family turned off many Christians around the world due to its barbaric nature. The fact that Organized Churches have honored the memory of the Romanov family, some have made the Romanovs saints is cement proof that worldwide Christians were talking about and were against the barbaric execution of the Romanovs in 1918 and to this day.
                      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                      George S Patton

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                        You dont have to take interest into the plight of others, others do. And you have misinterpreted some of my points. I will say In England even to this day Royalty is celebrated in immense fashion. Whenever a new prince is born or similar huge crowds come out to the streets. I dont know where you live, but England has a history of Kings and Queens as does Russia. This topic is not about only Christianity, perhaps you are erroneously thinking it is, but there is no denying how Christianity plays a role in this topic not only on the Russian side but also the English.

                        England was a Christian country

                        https://www.english-heritage.org.uk/...rian/religion/

                        The fact is that historically Kings , Emperors, Queens and other heads of state have had to flee countries and find refuge elsewhere. It was viewed as Christian hospitality for countries to take on those fleeing. Its a core part of what makes Christians different from barbarians, Mongols or Vikings, or these Communists that executed the Romanov children which is viewed as Satantic or bloodthirsty. The right of passage if you will goes back to before Christianity, but Christianity also approves of giving safe passage or refuge to those fleeing injustice or violence.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_asylum

                        To not care about the plight of children is something that goes against Christianity, its something some sort of vulgar and improper society would support. That is really the core part of this issue. Of course in a civilized European Christian country such an act of executing an entire family is barbaric, now one could also be non Christian and vehemently against the Execution of the Tsar and his family...

                        King George V had the power to allow the Romanov family refuge in England, but George V choose in the end to not allow the Romanovs into England.

                        His cousin King George V offered Nicholas II refuge, but then unexpectedly withdrew the offer

                        https://www.rbth.com/history/329281-...etray-nicholas
                        George V had NOT the power to give the Romanovs refuge in Britain, only the government had this power : the government being Lloyd Goerge . A British King has no power. He has only the right to be informed, to say (privately : you are doing good ) ,to say (in private pay attention .
                        Besides : there was no information that the Tsar and his family would be captured/shot .Your source : rbth is nonsense, as George V did not betray the tsar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                          George V had NOT the power to give the Romanovs refuge in Britain, only the government had this power : the government being Lloyd Goerge . A British King has no power. He has only the right to be informed, to say (privately : you are doing good ) ,to say (in private pay attention .
                          Besides : there was no information that the Tsar and his family would be captured/shot .Your source : rbth is nonsense, as George V did not betray the tsar.
                          Kings or Queens in England of the 20th century may not have had the power they had in the middle ages but to this day The Queen of England is an important symbol and her opinion matters.

                          Technically in England the Queen or King could exert power to block a bill from being passed. It has not occurred in over 300 years but still that power is there.

                          https://www.theweek.co.uk/royal-fami...al-family-have

                          In any event in 1918 George V did have the Power to influence the decision wrt the rescue of the Romanov family. One can guess what George V reasons were for not accepting The Romanovs as refugees but the point is George V reportedly used his position as King to decline accepting The Romanov family. I feel you are underestimating King George 5 importance in this manner,

                          It had previously been believed Lloyd George had decided to withdraw the offer of asylum to the House of Romanov following an initial request from the Russian government, but Lord Stamfordham’s letter indicates that King George himself was pivotal in the decision.

                          Historian Dr Piers Brendon notes in the documentary, The Royal House of Windsor, that King George was a constitutional monarch, who was supposed to heed the advice of his ministers.

                          Yet, he adds the King in effect “attempted to instruct” the government on its policy, with words such as “must” and “ought” in his letter.

                          Arthur Balfour consequently capitulated and wrote to Lloyd George, advising the Prime Minister to withdraw the offer of asylum, and in turn sealing the fate of the Russian royal family.

                          Tsar Nicholas and his family were subsequently overthrown in March 1917, and were later executed by the Bolsheviks on July 16 1918 after being moved to Ekaterinburg.

                          In a damning reflection on the King’s actions, Dr Brendon said: “George consigned the House of Romanov to history and his cousin Nicholas to the firing squad in order that the House of Windsor should survive.”


                          https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal...-assassination
                          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                          George S Patton

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Dr Brendon is wrong , or the interpretation of the journalist is wrong . :NO ONE could know what would happen to the tsar .King George V did not consign the House of Romanov to history, because the role of the Romanovs was already out .
                            And Brendon is again wrong when he said that George V gave orders to the government : the King warned the government for the negative effects if the tsar came to Britain ,and the government was convinced by the arguments of the king : for the majority of the British people the tsar was only a bloody tyran .And the interests of Britain were more important than the fate of a abdicated tyran .
                            The tsar was Russian, not British ,and George V was king of Britain and had no responsibility for what happened in Russia .
                            Besides, why would it be needed that the tsar would go to Britain ?There were other countries where he could go ,why not Germany ?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                              I have come across this. To the point about King George V afterthoughts on the execution of his cousin Emperor Nicholas II we have

                              IN LATE July 1918, as British forces slogged through the last months of a terrible war, King George V decreed that his court should wear mourning clothes for a month—not for his own country’s dead, but for a foreign sovereign whose demise in a remote place had just been confirmed. As Helen Rappaport vividly describes in “The Race to Save the Romanovs”, King George and Queen Mary then attended a memorial service at London’s only Russian Orthodox chapel. Amid the swirling incense and Slavonic chants, the royal couple visibly shared the mostly Russian congregation’s grief, not just for one slain monarch but for a dynasty and an era.

                              https://www.economist.com/books-and-...d-the-romanovs


                              In public King George V attended a Russian Church service dedicated to The Romanov family. And Iljadw this serves as a counter to your points. Its simply common sense that 1918 England and Europe as a whole was more Christian then it is today. In 19th century England there was many additional Churches built, Churches that would be packed for many decades to come. And while its true that so called secularism grew in the 19th and 20th century, the Churches remained and to this day Christians make up the largest religious population in the world.

                              http://www.vam.ac.uk/content/article...ntury-england/

                              The Newspapers worldwide covered the execution of the Romanov family, the brutal reported execution of the Romanov family sent shock waves around the world and provided a very very bad light on Communists. One should also give Russia of the modern times credit for what they have done to try and preserve the memory of the Romanov children, a Church has now been built at the very so called house of special purpose where the Romanovs were executed. .


                              Just to clarify this Iljadw so there is no misunderstanding. It is simply common sense that upon learning of the fate of the Romanov children, that Europe and America which in 1918 was overwhemingly Christian...would be against such mindless executions. Iljadw you said,

                              Why should the British people be interested in the fate of Russian children

                              In 1918, what do you imagine England to be? A country filled with those like the Communist non Christians that brutally executed the Romanov children, or perhaps England of that time was some rough society ran by criminals that brush off the execution of a family that ruled Russia for 300 years? The end of a Christian Era in Russia, taken over by Communists deeply worried many Christians across the world feeling that the Christian religion but also European society in general was under attack by Barbarian anarchists and Communists. Have you heard of the red scare? Do you know that Communists were opposed by Clergy in WW1 and WW2? This is basic knowledge buddy. Btw to me the Communists that executed the Romanov family were bad eggs one can say, even Christianity has followers whom are violent such as the clan but not all Christians or Communists were bad people. We can see though the execution of the Romanov by Communists turned many more Christians against Communism. But dont turn it into something else its not a discussion on Christianity but the point is that the execution of the Romanov family turned off many Christians around the world due to its barbaric nature. The fact that Organized Churches have honored the memory of the Romanov family, some have made the Romanovs saints is cement proof that worldwide Christians were talking about and were against the barbaric execution of the Romanovs in 1918 and to this day.
                              Britain was not interested in the fate of Chinese children, thus why should it be interested in the fate of the children of the Tsar?
                              And to prove that Christians around the world turned of because of the killing of the Romanovs, you must prove that they knew about it . As it is improbable that the Communists were telling the world about the killings, it is improbable that the world knew about the killings .

                              Comment

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