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The Collapse of the Soviet Union 1985-2018

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
    Ehm:
    https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...-DE&start=1998
    I'm not an economist, but I doubt that "lower is better" is an accepted wisdom. In any case the general trend was a decrease in the export/gdp ratio, as you can see from the graph.
    As for "oil is bad" I've already posted my skeptical view:
    https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...36#post4604136
    Some hipster thing IMO.
    Lower is better because it means your internal market is very strong and it is the main engine behind your GDP. US: 11%, Japan: 16%, China: 19%.
    I didn't say oil is bad.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post
      I've watched an intriguing video that claims the collapse of the Soviet Union 1985-2018 is not over, but an ongoing process that continues to the present day. Because the collapse of the Soviet Union is not over, the relationship with Moscow is as turbulent as it is, because that country is still convulsing and suffering. Maybe we are in Act II or Act III, but not in the epilogue, because it's not over yet.

      The same country that used to be called the Soviet Union is still alive, enjoying similar strengths, and suffering from similar problems (wars, ethnic unrest, strife, economic problems). This country is now masquerading under a new name but quite remarkably, the same people of the communist system are still alive and many of them are in charge, except now they call themselves "businessmen".

      The woes of the "Russian Federation", its decline, the expansionist totalitarian regime of Putin, they all add credence to the hypothesis of continuing decline of the same system that will not change but will attempt to resist change, by force if necessary.

      Putin has managed to slow down this decline by stopping the most dangerous ethnic wars of the 1990s, and introducing a more efficient government, but we don't know if the work of Putin will survive after his death. Clearly there is nobody in Russia of similar stature who could replace him.

      Your thoughts?
      Any way you look at it its a conspriacy view that the Soviet Union still exists, much like the view Israel or Iran created ISIL.

      Otoh what is true is that the USSR has its critiques and lovers. You probably know well that many ex Soviets stand by the Soviet times. That is the issue, why do good family oriented people in Russia and worldwide stand by Stalin, Lenin and the USSR? We all have a ton more reading to do when it comes to Soviet history. This takes nothing away from the critiques of the USSR, but no one can deny those that praise the USSR for this would be an attack on freedom. .

      Will the name Stalingrad or Leningrad be brought back to Russia, that could be an interesting development. While Communism may not come back to Russia, we could see new statues of Lenin and Stalin raised across Russia.

      The fact the USSR could take on the Reich during WW2 some of the time all by itself shows us the incredible strength of the soviets, and no critic can ever take away the strength of the USSR..After all the first nation to send a human into space was the USSR.

      The anti Communist never had a good argument to make in the 1940s and 1960s these guys were ranting against Jews and blacks. Never will the anti Communist have a thoughtful contribution to this world. To be anti Communist is the same as being anti Jewish or anti Muslim.
      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM

      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

      George S Patton

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

        Any way you look at it its a conspriacy view that the Soviet Union still exists, much like the view Israel or Iran created ISIL.

        Otoh what is true is that the USSR has its critiques and lovers. You probably know well that many ex Soviets stand by the Soviet times. That is the issue, why do good family oriented people in Russia and worldwide stand by Stalin, Lenin and the USSR? We all have a ton more reading to do when it comes to Soviet history. This takes nothing away from the critiques of the USSR, but no one can deny those that praise the USSR for this would be an attack on freedom. .

        Will the name Stalingrad or Leningrad be brought back to Russia, that could be an interesting development. While Communism may not come back to Russia, we could see new statues of Lenin and Stalin raised across Russia.

        The fact the USSR could take on the Reich during WW2 some of the time all by itself shows us the incredible strength of the soviets, and no critic can ever take away the strength of the USSR..After all the first nation to send a human into space was the USSR.

        The anti Communist never had a good argument to make in the 1940s and 1960s these guys were ranting against Jews and blacks. Never will the anti Communist have a thoughtful contribution to this world. To be anti Communist is the same as being anti Jewish or anti Muslim.
        Interesting points.
        As I understand it, what inspired the peoples of the Soviet Union during the Great Patriotic War was not devotion to the communist cause but rather the defence of Rodina,родина, the Russian homeland. Therefore I can't see the name of St.Petersburg reverting to Leningrad ,unless there'sa total re-think of history.
        "I dogmatise and am contradicted, and in this conflict of opinions and sentiments I find delight".
        Samuel Johnson.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Imperial View Post
          Lower is better because it means your internal market is very strong and it is the main engine behind your GDP. US: 11%, Japan: 16%, China: 19%.
          I would say it's an indicator of how much an economy is included in the globalized market. If it's bad or good depends on your point of view (we've seen an entire generation of economists who maintained that it's good). Anyway, my personal belief is that development though own intern market is a right idea.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
            First, most Americans who use the word "totalitarian" don't understand what it means. The only regime on Earth now which can be described as totalitarian is North Korean.
            Second, Russia is not a declining power. Politically, military or economically it is a way stronger than it was 20 years ago. To give a simple illustration 20 years ago Russian GDP was 1/10 of the US, now it is 1/5:
            https://data.worldbank.org/indicator...017&start=1997
            By a contrast US was losing its influence both a result of their huge foreign mishaps like the Iraq War and a political turmoil at home. Actually you are better view Russian-American tensions as a conflict between declining power (USA) and a rising one (Russia). After all, in the last two years Americans were in the state of never-ending hysteria about alleged Russian influence on them, not the other way around. That's an unmistakable indicator.
            As for former Communist people in the Russian leadership - that's simply ridiculous. Yetlsin (the best American buddy back in 90s) was from a Communist party top bras, if you didn't now that. His acting prime-minister appointed after the collapse of the SU was formerly an editor in chief of the "Communist" journal (an official media outlet of the CPSU). Etc, etc. Situation in other former Soviet republics was not different. People in the present Russian government were either junior clerks in the USSR or simply nobody.
            As far as other European countries are concerned, it is worth to remind that German government is headed by by a former Communist Youth functionary and Communist propagandist and the President of Lithuania is simply a former KGB informer.
            Finally, the present Russia is simply a very different country from the Soviet Union whatever American rednecks think about. It has a different situation and a different set of problems. Some former Soviet plagues (e.g. tails in shops and a deficit of consumer goods) are simply irrelevant in Russia, some Russian problems (like Islam terrorism or traffic jams) were not seen in the Soviet Union.
            Some good points there. The Americans have gotten used to the helpless Russia of the 1990s when Moscow was knocked out and unable to stand up. As soon as Moscow jumped back on her feet, there were signs of great anxiety in Washington, because it was no longer possible to continue the old balance of power as it existed in the 1990s.
            Last edited by MonsterZero; 15 Sep 18, 14:14.

            "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
            --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Artyom_A View Post
              I would say it's an indicator of how much an economy is included in the globalized market. If it's bad or good depends on your point of view (we've seen an entire generation of economists who maintained that it's good). Anyway, my personal belief is that development though own intern market is a right idea.
              I believe it depends on the country's size and ambitions. For small or medium countries it's good because it increases economic activity and prosperity. And that's good enough for them, they can't have more. But for a large country with great power potential and ambitions then the goal is to make its internal economy stronger. It may rely on a high trade-to-GDP ratio at first to get a boost, but the goal is to build a strong internal market. At least that's how I see it.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Emtos View Post

                How can we debate if it starts with false ideas ?
                You are a known historiographer and supporter of Stalinist genocide. You need to work on improving your reputation. I hope and pray a day will come (I know it will) when deniers of Stalinist genocide will face criminal charges, just like deniers of the Holocaut in the European Union.

                "Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a ugly brawl."
                --Frederick II, King of Prussia

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by MonsterZero View Post

                  You are a known historiographer and supporter of Stalinist genocide. You need to work on improving your reputation. I hope and pray a day will come (I know it will) when deniers of Stalinist genocide will face criminal charges, just like deniers of the Holocaut in the European Union.
                  There was no genocide. Getting rid of enemies of people is a necessary task. At the end Communism will win and Stalin will be hailed as on of Earth's greatest heroes.
                  There are no Nazis in Ukraine. © Idiots

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                  • #24
                    He-he, "genocide" is another word people like to use without understanding its meaning. Also add "geopolitics" to the list, many believe it's a synonym for "foreign politics" or "international politics" instead of being a trashy pseudo-science.

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