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  • R&D in Russia

    German magazine "Der Spiegel" had an article about research and development in Russia last week. According to the magazine, Russia invests heavily into modern hight-tech industries, but doesn't come farther than producing prototypes, citing examples of cars, smartphones and a passenger jet. Supposedly, Russia's secret service is smuggling western electronics for army and itself into the country, since there are no good domestic mass-produced equivalents, while the country depends on exported raw material and especially oil for all its needs. The article's quality is dubious though, the author repeats the myth of the Potemkin villages, though I wanted to ask you and especially our Russian members, if there is any truth in it.
    Reaction to the 2016 Munich shootings:
    Europe: "We are shocked and support you in these harsh times, we stand by you."
    USA: "We will check people from Germany extra-hard and it is your own damn fault for being so stupid."

  • #2
    Here is a Russian hi-tech company, which holds a sizable segment of international market in its area:
    http://www.ntmdt.com/
    Characterization of government's effort as Potyomkin villages is to a large degree true though.

    Comment


    • #3
      We may indeed be looking at a trend.
      Moscow-based military analyst Alexander Golts recently complained in the Moscow Times that Russian companies are "in no position to make use of advanced technologies." Engineers working on the planned T-50 fighter jet, a fifth-generation stealth bomber, have been given strict orders only to install Russian high-tech components. But as there are not enough plasma displays made in Russia, a member of the project team admitted that "we just take Japanese monitors and re-label them".

      In the civilian industry, I was glad to see the other night on BBCWorld CNN? some attractive and nicely made commercials of Russian Railways, to me an indicator that Russia has (international) ambitions enough.






      On the other hand Russians registered approximately 1,000 international patents in 2011 -- less than many a multinational.
      As part of a high-tech offensive, the Russian government has been pumping billions into Russian companies to help them get a corner in the market with tablets, cell phones and aircraft made in Russia. But also these efforts seem not to have been a big success so far.
      The Superjet project of the Russian aerospace company Sukhoi has met tragic results. It has only built about two dozen units, one of which crashed during a demonstration flight in Indonesia in May 2012, killing all 45 on board.
      A final instructive anecdote: two years ago, Putin drove a canary-yellow Kalina, a supermini car produced by the Russian carmaker Lada, on a publicity tour in Siberia. Just to be on the safe side, Lada had provided him with two replacement vehicles -- and a tow truck.
      Last edited by Colonel Sennef; 04 Dec 12, 12:25.
      BoRG

      You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

      Comment


      • #4
        R&D in Russia today is dying out pitiful remnants of Soviet ones. Liberal leadership is dysfunctional to produce something useful. BTW cannot see progress in railway transport. Fast train bought from Siemens for own needs by St Petersburg Mafioso who occupy Kremlin hardly can be sign of progress. Price for passenger railway transport on long distance is more than by plane. In recent newspaper Arguments of a week they wrote that owners of railway transport are intending to raise tariffs and are demanding subsidizing from budget. Today suburb trains in our town are making trips several times less than in SU

        Comment


        • #5
          This will always be a challenge as R&D costs for next generation systems are astronomically high. Even the US had to bring in foreign partners to get the F-35 into production.

          Getting foreign sales for any system that does not already have at least one major buyer is also very difficult. Just ask the Swedes.
          Any metaphor will tear if stretched over too much reality.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Major Sennef View Post
            We may indeed be looking at a trend.
            Moscow-based military analyst Alexander Golts recently complained in the Moscow Times that Russian companies are "in no position to make use of advanced technologies." Engineers working on the planned T-50 fighter jet, a fifth-generation stealth bomber, have been given strict orders only to install Russian high-tech components. But as there are not enough plasma displays made in Russia, a member of the project team admitted that "we just take Japanese monitors and re-label them".

            On the other hand Russians registered approximately 1,000 international patents in 2011 -- less than many a multinational.
            As part of a high-tech offensive, the Russian government has been pumping billions into Russian companies to help them get a corner in the market with tablets, cell phones and aircraft made in Russia. But also these efforts seem not to have been a big success so far.
            The Superjet project of the Russian aerospace company Sukhoi has met tragic results. It has only built about two dozen units, one of which crashed during a demonstration flight in Indonesia in May 2012, killing all 45 on board.
            A final instructive anecdote: two years ago, Putin drove a canary-yellow Kalina, a supermini car produced by the Russian carmaker Lada, on a publicity tour in Siberia. Just to be on the safe side, Lada had provided him with two replacement vehicles -- and a tow truck.
            Where did you read all this? This is almost word for word the article in the magazine I read.

            Originally posted by Fareasterner View Post
            R&D in Russia today is dying out pitiful remnants of Soviet ones. Liberal leadership is dysfunctional to produce something useful.
            Yes, which is why the Chinese under their ***** liberal government have to work so hard in their sweatshop, to get all the expensive tech toys from the autocratic west, be it the monolithic and uniform United States, the warlike and expansionist Swiss or the ruthlessly efficient Italians.
            Reaction to the 2016 Munich shootings:
            Europe: "We are shocked and support you in these harsh times, we stand by you."
            USA: "We will check people from Germany extra-hard and it is your own damn fault for being so stupid."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Major Sennef View Post
              Moscow-based military analyst Alexander Golts recently complained in the Moscow Times
              Originally posted by Acheron View Post
              Where did you read all this? This is almost word for word the article in the magazine I read.
              Moscow Times 9 October 2012.
              BoRG

              You may not be interested in War, but War is interested in You - Leon Trotski, June 1919.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Acheron View Post
                the myth of the Potemkin villages
                that is indeed a myth, concocted by European press of the time, for of course the villages in question had in fact been built. Catherine The Great was neither blind nor stupid.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by stalin View Post
                  that is indeed a myth, concocted by European press of the time, for of course the villages in question had in fact been built. Catherine The Great was neither blind nor stupid.
                  Just this one time I will pretend to consider you a serious board member instead of a troll. While I agree on the second half, Europe didn't care enough about Russia back then, not enough that anything that counted as a "press" back then would bother inventing propaganda about it. To my knowledge,l the Potemkin myth originates within Russia, from Russian nobles and aristocrats who were jealous of Potemkin and the his close relationship to the Czarina. Classical slander by upper-class snobs.
                  Reaction to the 2016 Munich shootings:
                  Europe: "We are shocked and support you in these harsh times, we stand by you."
                  USA: "We will check people from Germany extra-hard and it is your own damn fault for being so stupid."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Acheron View Post
                    Just this one time I will pretend to consider you a serious board member instead of a troll. While I agree on the second half, Europe didn't care enough about Russia back then, not enough that anything that counted as a "press" back then would bother inventing propaganda about it.
                    At any moment since Peter the Great's victory at Poltava, Europe, and namely its monarchs and its elites, did care about Russia, and especially so in the times of Catherine the Great. Several European philosophers, including Voltaire, were in correspondence with Catherine II and naturally their words did matter a lot for the educated classes.

                    To my knowledge,l the Potemkin myth originates within Russia, from Russian nobles and aristocrats who were jealous of Potemkin and the his close relationship to the Czarina. Classical slander by upper-class snobs.
                    Well, at least partly. Another great push for that myth was made by Napoleon's propaganda machine. This is when the "horse sex" story was actively spread by papers under his control, and the "Testament of Peter the Great" was published.

                    Just to conclude the whole argument, here's a quote from Massie's "Catherine II", Chapter 67

                    Over time, the story of Catherine the Great’s journey down the Dnieper River to the Crimea in the spring of 1787 has passed from history into legend. It has been described as the most remarkable journey ever made by a reigning monarch and as Gregory Potemkin’s greatest public triumph. It has also been disparaged as a gigantic hoax: the prosperous villages shown to the empress were said to have been made of painted cardboard; the happy villagers were declared to be costumed serfs, marched from place to place, appearing and reappearing, waving and cheering as Catherine passed by. These accusations became the basis of the myth of “Potemkin villages,” the settlements Potemkin supposedly fabricated along the Dnieper in order to deceive Catherine and her guests about the actual state of her southern territories. In time, the expression “Potemkin village” came to mean a sham, or something fraudulent, erected or spoken to conceal an unpleasant truth. As such, it became a cliché; now, it is part of the language. In evaluating the allegation, two facts should be considered. The first is that those who mocked and condemned were not present on the journey. The other is that the results of Potemkin’s work were personally observed by many eyewitnesses, including three sharp-eyed and sophisticated foreigners: the Austrian emperor, Joseph II; the French ambassador, the Comte de Ségur; and the Austrian field marshal Prince Charles de Ligne. Over two centuries, no one has produced any evidence that what these three said and wrote about their journey was untrue.
                    www.histours.ru

                    Siege of Leningrad battlefield tour

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Acheron View Post
                      Europe didn't care enough about Russia back then
                      they did care a lot because Turkey was the key word to that. Europe felt enraged by Russia's victories over there and her growing influence worldwide, hence the slander campaign.

                      Originally posted by Acheron View Post
                      the Potemkin myth originates within Russia
                      it was impossible because, if so, this would be an insult to Catharine II herself and her ability as a tsarina.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by stalin View Post
                        they did care a lot because Turkey was the key word to that. Europe felt enraged by Russia's victories over there and her growing influence worldwide, hence the slander campaign.
                        Europe lacks a central nervous system of any kind, and thus wouldn't think anything at all about any of this.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Johan Banér View Post
                          Europe lacks a central nervous system of any kind
                          they have self-interests instead, and when these got pinched, they overreact like crazy.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Acheron View Post
                            To my knowledge,l the Potemkin myth originates within Russia, from Russian nobles and aristocrats who were jealous of Potemkin and the his close relationship to the Czarina.
                            Regardless of whether it was myth or not, colonization of the New Russia was undoubtedly a real and material thing. Which cannot be said about "innovations" and "modernization".
                            Last edited by Artyom_A; 06 Dec 12, 14:33.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Major Sennef View Post
                              The Superjet project of the Russian aerospace company Sukhoi has met tragic results. It has only built about two dozen units, one of which crashed during a demonstration flight in Indonesia in May 2012, killing all 45 on board.
                              The catastrophe was a result of human factor, not an airplane failure. Yet it was a bad publicity, sure.
                              A final instructive anecdote: two years ago, Putin drove a canary-yellow Kalina, a supermini car produced by the Russian carmaker Lada, on a publicity tour in Siberia. Just to be on the safe side, Lada had provided him with two replacement vehicles -- and a tow truck.
                              Still it's the most sold car in Russia and that means a lot.

                              Comment

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