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What are your views on the number of prisoners in the US (all levels)?

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  • What are your views on the number of prisoners in the US (all levels)?

    What are your views on the number of prisoners in the US at all levels - federal, state, and local?
    11
    Too many prisoners
    100.00%
    11
    About the right number of prisoners
    0%
    0
    Too few prisoners
    0%
    0
    Indifferent to number of prisoners
    0%
    0
    Other
    0%
    0

  • #2
    Wikipedia - Incarceration rate in US vs. other countries


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...ther_countries

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    • #3
      If you do the crime, you do the time.
      Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

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      • #4
        The cost of being the only truly multicultural country in the world? Crime in the Irish and Italian communities are just two examples of how relaxed assimilation plays out.
        We hunt the hunters

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        • #5
          Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
          What are your views on the number of prisoners in the US at all levels - federal, state, and local?
          What is your view?

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          • #6
            I think if you give an industry a financial incentive to have prisoners, you're going to get prisoners.

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            • #7
              Hi Mountain Main, in response to your question:

              I think it is too way high. I was waiting until someone else responded with a some thoughts, or some people voted, but my view is that it is too high. Way too high. I have long felt this way, but what prompts the thread now is the "Getting off" of the Marathon Bomber - what a clearly broken justice system when he is till alive 7 years later and it sure seems like he will never be executed. There is a tremendous inconsistency in that people are looked up for years for minor drug offenses, and murderers and terrorists get off.

              The Wikipedia article I have attached is interesting I think - compared to other countries, including our "peers" like the other 5 eyes countries, our rates our way higher. One thing of interest in the article is that the length of time in prison in the US tends to be much longer.

              Anyway, I have other sources I am looking at, but that is my basic view. I was eventually going to mention my view that prisoners should be allowed to vote - Bernie Sanders said this before and was pilloried - my basic point is that if a society is afraid people in prison might decide an election, well, by definition there are too many people in prison.

              Anyway, I certainly am interested in any opinion you have, as I know you have significant experience working as a medical professional in prisons.

              =====================================

              excerpt from above Wikipedia article

              Total US incarceration (prisons and jails) peaked in 2008. On January 1, 2008 more than 1 in 100 adults in the United States were in prison or jail.[25][26] Total correctional population (prison, jail, probation, parole) peaked in 2007.[24] If all prisoners are counted (including juvenile, territorial, ICE, Indian country, and military), then in 2008 the USA had around 24.7% of the world's 9.8 million prisoners.[27][28][23]

              A 2008 New York Times article[29] said that "it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the incarceration lists. If lists were compiled based on annual admissions to prison per capita, several European countries would outpace the United States. But American prison stays are much longer, so the total incarceration rate is higher."
              Last edited by lakechampainer; 03 Aug 20, 20:47.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DingBat View Post
                I think if you give an industry a financial incentive to have prisoners, you're going to get prisoners.
                Totally agree Dingbat - another topic I was going to address - I think private prisons, and shipping prisoners to other states, is immoral.

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                • #9
                  I wonder what the statistics are now that Trump signed the prison reform bill. The three strikes from the 90's grew prison population sizes. Between Trump and the COVID releases we are probably at the lowest point since the 90's bill.
                  "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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                  • #10
                    Just found this article:

                    https://www.sentencingproject.org/pu...irst-step-act/
                    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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                    • #11
                      Too high. We have a lot of laws that shouldn't exist, criminalizing good natured people.
                      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                      - Benjamin Franklin

                      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                        Wikipedia - Incarceration rate in US vs. other countries


                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compar...ther_countries
                        Note the incarceration rate of Americans per 100,000 throughout our history. While we are at today over 600 per 100,000 Americans in jail...an embarrassment... It wasn’t always like this. In our golden era the 1940s to 1960s....We had five times as less prisoners compared to our modern era.

                        The following is from the US department of justice statistics,


                        ——The number of persons sentenced to State and Federal correctional institutions has been recorded annually since 1925. It is therefore possible to view the rapid growth of prison population over the past 9 years against the background provided by nearly 50 years of earlier data. In general, the trend in prison population over the entire period has been one of upward growth, about half of which reflects the growth in the general population during that time (table 1 and figure 1).


                        The average annual growth rate for the prison population during 1925-81 was 2.4 percent; for the residential population of the United States it was 1.2 percent. The more rapid growth of the prison population is also reflected in the incarceration rate (the number of sentenced prisoners for each 100,000 residents in the United States), which rose from 79 per 100,000

                        .....

                        Between 1925 and 1939 the number of sentenced prisoners grew by 88,000, an average annual rate of 5 percent, sUbstan- tially higher than for the entire 1925-81 period even though there was virtually no growth during the depth of the depression, 1932-34. By 1939 the incarceration rate had reached 137 per 100,000, a level it was not to reach again for 41 years———

                        https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/p2581.pdf


                        Throughout the golden era our country was led by mostly strong willed Democratic leader ship from the likes of the initialed presidents, FDR, JFK, LBJ but also the Republican Dwight Eisenhower. During this time we had millions of more middle-class Union jobs for Americans of all colors right out of high school. But By the 1980s And 90s the crack epidemic , the loss of Steel and auto jobs, as well as a 25% drop in union jobs led to the middle class becoming weaker. Inner cities became more violent and impoverished leading to a spike in our prison rates.

                        In the American past Hundreds of thousands of blacks were able to get factory jobs that paid a good middle class wage along with having a union. My grandpa and dad worked alongside Arab, blacks, Jews and Other minorities at the factory jobs such as Bethlehem Steel and Ford motor company. My family came from Ireland and Italy. For a large part those jobs of the past Have disappeared and need to be replaced.
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                        • #13
                          I guess overall its a cultural/religious thing. The american society grows up in violence of all sorts, your rolemodels are dominance based, aggression is a solution. All the useless wars, the huge military and all the fear based decision making are symptoms of this culture. Status is so overly important, people are taught to fight all their life. Thats how america rolls, thats whats filling the prisons.

                          Just stop putting people behind bars for drug related stuff and petty crimes. Stop stigmatizing prisoners and work on not just locking people away and let them rot, but educate them, so they get a perspective and things will improve tremendously. Its easy and done in most developed countries.

                          The way prison is handled right now is destructive and a huge waste of taxpayers money. If you have more prisoners than China, at a far smaller population, you know you are doing something wrong.

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                          • #14
                            How many of you have family members who went to jail? I have had several. My sister was violent and very into drugs. Her son has been but now seems to have straightened himself out. He ran into lots of friends of his father in jail. I used to refer to him and his cousin as "Beavis and Butthead". Now both are married and have families to support.

                            My little sister was only about 5'2" and about 100 pounds, but she could work herself into a rage where she would go after really large people with a knife. When she went to jail, I used to say she would either die or run the place after a few days. She sent a letter to us from St Gabriel's Women's Prison saying everyone there (but her!) was gay (?) She was there when Jane Pauley visited. She did not make the TV cut. She died a paraplegic and never reached 50. I had a talk with her son while he was growing up. I said, sure your life has been screwed up, but remember you have a choice in how you behave.

                            I really feel that if you do the crime, you should do the time. As Ron White says, "If you kill someone in Texas, they kill you back!" The problem is they let them sit around for ten or twenty years before they execute them. Too many live long enough to get released.

                            Pruitt
                            Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

                            Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                              What are your views on the number of prisoners in the US at all levels - federal, state, and local?
                              Rate of incarceration is not the relevant matter. The only issue of importance is whether or not they actually committed the crime. If the crime is committed, a 98% rate of incarceration is not too high.
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