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  • #16
    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

    Any day now, a dinosaur-annihilating meteor is going to strike the earth. The last one hit us 64 million years ago, so statistically speaking, I guess we're due. Now what would you suggest that I do in the meantime, stand on the corner, wave my Bible, and shout to passers-by, "repent -- the End is nigh!"?

    In order for a president to remain in office after the expiration of his term, he would need rock-solid support from all the leading officials and officers from all of the law enforcement, intelligence, and military agencies; not just politically appointed directors, but rank-and-file career personnel, as well. We're talking hundreds of thousands of men and women, of all races, nationalities, religions, and political sentiments. Now honestly, can you see a Trump -- or an Obama or a Bush or a Clinton -- securing that kind of support? All of a sudden that extinction meteor seems far more likely, doesn't it?

    Why not just ask the current and retired US military personnel that participate regularly on the forum, if they'd be willing to compromise their oath to keep their preferred political figure in office beyond his lawful term, or in defiance of election results. Even the diehards, upon genuine reflection, aren't willing to do that. It would be sheer madness, and we all know it.

    So do you still hold my confidence against me? After all, I know -- in my marrow -- that USA men's ice hockey will vanquish their Canuckian nemesis and hoist Olympic gold, and it will happen in my lifetime.
    For you to present the idea that the USA could ever beat Team Canada for Olympic gold in hockey tells me just how delusional you are. :> Just kidding.

    Don't get me wrong, if Trump loses he will be ultimately forced out somehow I have no doubt. The United States people will see to that. But this situation is not analogous to any other election. I start with the premise, and my strong belief, that Trump now fears getting caught and the consequences for all his wrong doing, which is great. If that is true then that makes him desperate and willing to do anything to stay in power where he can manage against this personal peril. If this premise is untrue then I would concur that my alarmist view of this election is unwarranted. But if this premise is true then this situation is sure to get very messy. So I'm wondering if you agree with my premise?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

      You're the one constantly bashing Trump.

      If you win,how will prove it wasn't a rigged election? How will account for illegals and the dead who vote for Democrats at every election?

      We haven't got a problem- you do.
      The burden to prove the claim of a rigged election is on those who make it. But thanks for proving my point that at least some Trump veterans avoid taking a clear stance regarding how they would react if Trump loses and does not concede that he lost.
      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post

        For you to present the idea that the USA could ever beat Team Canada for Olympic gold in hockey tells me just how delusional you are. :> Just kidding.

        Don't get me wrong, if Trump loses he will be ultimately forced out somehow I have no doubt. The United States people will see to that. But this situation is not analogous to any other election. I start with the premise, and my strong belief, that Trump now fears getting caught and the consequences for all his wrong doing, which is great. If that is true then that makes him desperate and willing to do anything to stay in power where he can manage against this personal peril. If this premise is untrue then I would concur that my alarmist view of this election is unwarranted. But if this premise is true then this situation is sure to get very messy. So I'm wondering if you agree with my premise?
        Again with Trump as The Most Evil Villain of All Time? It's all right with you if your party rigs the election? You support having illegals and dead people voting for your candidates, but have no problem disenfranchising millions of those who don't vote your way? It won;t bother you if BLM and Antifa goons are part of the voting process the way the Black Panthers were not very long ago?

        Ever occur to you that many of us would vote for someone other than Trump, had the failed Republicans offered up even a semblance of a candidate? Or that we might even have voted for a Democrat, if the Democratic Party were not so totally corrupt, anti-Constitutional and socialist, and had not chosen a drooling, brain damaged pervert as their candidate? If Biden makes it, which of the Shadow Socialist Democrats will really be running the nation,? Because there is no way Feeble-Minded Joe is going to be able to do it. He belongs in an Alzheimers Unit, not groping the female ambassador of a foreign nation.

        Trump did the honorable and correct thing by suggesting that the election be postponed in order secure the rights of every voter to vote in person. No matter how this turns out, no one is going to believe it wasn't rigged and no one is going to believe the results. It hasn't bothered the Democrats to postpone the entire American nation, destroying jobs, pensions and businesses in the process, in order to fit their agenda, but it's a mortal sin for Trump to attempt, one last time, to try and provide a fairer election? Doesn't speak well of the Pelosi private anti-American army.

        If you think we've got rioting, looting, burning and killing now, "you ain't seen nothin' yet", to quote Jolson.

        I personally do not want to live in the Pelosi-Soros New Socialist America, no matter who wins this election. I'd rather give it all back to Mexico and the Amerinds.
        Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

          Again with Trump as The Most Evil Villain of All Time? It's all right with you if your party rigs the election? You support having illegals and dead people voting for your candidates, but have no problem disenfranchising millions of those who don't vote your way? It won;t bother you if BLM and Antifa goons are part of the voting process the way the Black Panthers were not very long ago?

          Ever occur to you that many of us would vote for someone other than Trump, had the failed Republicans offered up even a semblance of a candidate? Or that we might even have voted for a Democrat, if the Democratic Party were not so totally corrupt, anti-Constitutional and socialist, and had not chosen a drooling, brain damaged pervert as their candidate? If Biden makes it, which of the Shadow Socialist Democrats will really be running the nation,? Because there is no way Feeble-Minded Joe is going to be able to do it. He belongs in an Alzheimers Unit, not groping the female ambassador of a foreign nation.

          Trump did the honorable and correct thing by suggesting that the election be postponed in order secure the rights of every voter to vote in person. No matter how this turns out, no one is going to believe it wasn't rigged and no one is going to believe the results. It hasn't bothered the Democrats to postpone the entire American nation, destroying jobs, pensions and businesses in the process, in order to fit their agenda, but it's a mortal sin for Trump to attempt, one last time, to try and provide a fairer election? Doesn't speak well of the Pelosi private anti-American army.

          If you think we've got rioting, looting, burning and killing now, "you ain't seen nothin' yet", to quote Jolson.

          I personally do not want to live in the Pelosi-Soros New Socialist America, no matter who wins this election. I'd rather give it all back to Mexico and the Amerinds.
          My, my. The title of the thread is "a most dangerous election shaping up". This post and in particular your Jolson quote seems to support it.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by pamak View Post
            You assume that these members will believe that the election results are legitimate which based on what we have seen so far, should not be taken for granted.
            "Sayin'" 'n "doin'" is two dif'rent things. You yourself know that all kinds of people say all kinds of things, usually out of pique -- but that does not de facto indicate criminal intent, aka mens rea. If it did, would we all be in the can right now for threatening to kill our wives/husbands countless times?

            Originally posted by pamak View Post
            And if the rhetoric about " voting fraud" continues and Trump losses
            Then perhaps his campaign team will file a petition in the appropriate venue. Otherwise, it ain't nothing but talk -- and you know what they say about talk.

            Originally posted by pamak View Post
            and (unlike previous politicians) refuses to accept the election results
            Like Al Gore and his partisans? Yeah, I'm dredging up the past. Of course Bush partisans cheated down in Florida. As it turned out, so too did Gore's. This was revealed by the pattern of lawsuits that were filed by both camps following the election: Bush's team filed their petitions in Republican counties, like Clay, Santa Rosa, and Nassau counties -- counties that Bush won by better than two-to-one -- while Gore's campaign filed their petitions in Broward, Palm Beach, and Gadsen counties: counties that Gore won by two-to-one margins. Neither team was looking for fair and impartial arbiters, but partisan shills posing as fair and impartial arbiters. It was a sham from "go." The gist of Gore's complaint wasn't that Bush cheated, but that Bush had cheated better than he did. In Oliver Stone's 1995 Nixon, when James Woods' Halderman suggests that Nixon sue 'cause the Kennedy's bought Chicago, Anthony Hopkins' Nixon retorts, "what am I gonna do, complain that they cheated better than us?" Well, that's what Gore & Co did in 2000. A guy who led in all the major polls going into Labor day watched his lead erode little-by-little over the next two months, 'cause he campaigned like a cigar store Indian, and we're supposed to believe that 1,800 canned votes in Florida kept him from the office for which he lusted so.

            To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if every election in US history was smelly. I'm a New Yorker, so it's de rigueur here, and not just for the Democrats, but also for the Republicans out in the 'burbs. FDR chided LBJ for being cheated out of the 1940 Texas Democratic US Senate primary: told him he announced "his boxes" too early, so his opponent knew just how many ballots to stuff before the counts were ruled complete. In both the "Solid South" and the big city wards, ballots were printed by the county party organizations, so just getting on the ballot was often a bit of a magic act. And then there were the goons and gangsters that patrolled the polling places: pure voter intimidation, plain and simple. And let's not forget such gems as the poll tax and the voter registration tests, which always seemed to be a little tougher for blacks.



            As long as there's something of value to be gained via elections ("get the money": Albany boss Dan O'Connell -- or if you prefer, read Cassius Dio's account of Caesar's electoral campaigns) then there will always be people willing to cheat to get it.

            And if you don't like the essence of electoral politics, then what's your alternative?



            Yeah, as long as you believe that we have to have government and that we have to have politicians 'cause we're all too simian to govern our own affairs as individuals, then your choice will remain: crappy elections -- or reigns of terror. Either way, you'll just be proving Hobbes right. And I can't think of anything more depressing than that.

            So in the end, the geriatrics who are saying today that they'll oppose any kind of rigged election are full of sh*t, and you know it. Give 'em all $100 markers in Las Vegas for the slots and comp their early bird specials and their little revolution will disappear faster than a fart in the wind. "The sun, the moon, and the stars" will not be falling from the sky just yet.
            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
              For you to present the idea that the USA could ever beat Team Canada for Olympic gold in hockey tells me just how delusional you are. :> Just kidding.
              "Dem's are fightin' words!"



              No fer nuttin', but you should've seen Jr bunt one in five-hole back in March. It was a thing of beauty. Then he hip-checked their winger into the door his teammates forgot to close. Oh, how that made me swell with pride.

              Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
              Don't get me wrong, if Trump loses he will be ultimately forced out somehow I have no doubt. The United States people will see to that. But this situation is not analogous to any other election. I start with the premise, and my strong belief, that Trump now fears getting caught and the consequences for all his wrong doing, which is great. If that is true then that makes him desperate and willing to do anything to stay in power where he can manage against this personal peril. If this premise is untrue then I would concur that my alarmist view of this election is unwarranted. But if this premise is true then this situation is sure to get very messy. So I'm wondering if you agree with my premise?
              The American way is built on precedent, one upon the other, like a layer cake. Ford pardoning Nixon was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, it put lowered the partisan flames, which were riding pretty high at the time, but it sent the wrong message: presidents ARE above the law. There's no doubt in my mind that Bill & Hillary Clinton belong behind bars -- but their former office is still a impenetrable shield. Would it be unfair to deprive Trump of that shield? Probably -- but it's going to happen sooner or later, and let's be honest here: he's gone that extra mile to make himself loved, so I won't be too bothered if Trump is the be the example. Where the rubber meets the road, no one with two brain cells to rub together is going to risk anything for Trump's sake. He's on his own.
              I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                "Sayin'" 'n "doin'" is two dif'rent things. You yourself know that all kinds of people say all kinds of things, usually out of pique -- but that does not de facto indicate criminal intent, aka mens rea. If it did, would we all be in the can right now for threatening to kill our wives/husbands countless times?



                Then perhaps his campaign team will file a petition in the appropriate venue. Otherwise, it ain't nothing but talk -- and you know what they say about talk.



                Like Al Gore and his partisans? Yeah, I'm dredging up the past. Of course Bush partisans cheated down in Florida. As it turned out, so too did Gore's. This was revealed by the pattern of lawsuits that were filed by both camps following the election: Bush's team filed their petitions in Republican counties, like Clay, Santa Rosa, and Nassau counties -- counties that Bush won by better than two-to-one -- while Gore's campaign filed their petitions in Broward, Palm Beach, and Gadsen counties: counties that Gore won by two-to-one margins. Neither team was looking for fair and impartial arbiters, but partisan shills posing as fair and impartial arbiters. It was a sham from "go." The gist of Gore's complaint wasn't that Bush cheated, but that Bush had cheated better than he did. In Oliver Stone's 1995 Nixon, when James Woods' Halderman suggests that Nixon sue 'cause the Kennedy's bought Chicago, Anthony Hopkins' Nixon retorts, "what am I gonna do, complain that they cheated better than us?" Well, that's what Gore & Co did in 2000. A guy who led in all the major polls going into Labor day watched his lead erode little-by-little over the next two months, 'cause he campaigned like a cigar store Indian, and we're supposed to believe that 1,800 canned votes in Florida kept him from the office for which he lusted so.

                To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if every election in US history was smelly. I'm a New Yorker, so it's de rigueur here, and not just for the Democrats, but also for the Republicans out in the 'burbs. FDR chided LBJ for being cheated out of the 1940 Texas Democratic US Senate primary: told him he announced "his boxes" too early, so his opponent knew just how many ballots to stuff before the counts were ruled complete. In both the "Solid South" and the big city wards, ballots were printed by the county party organizations, so just getting on the ballot was often a bit of a magic act. And then there were the goons and gangsters that patrolled the polling places: pure voter intimidation, plain and simple. And let's not forget such gems as the poll tax and the voter registration tests, which always seemed to be a little tougher for blacks.



                As long as there's something of value to be gained via elections ("get the money": Albany boss Dan O'Connell -- or if you prefer, read Cassius Dio's account of Caesar's electoral campaigns) then there will always be people willing to cheat to get it.

                And if you don't like the essence of electoral politics, then what's your alternative?



                Yeah, as long as you believe that we have to have government and that we have to have politicians 'cause we're all too simian to govern our own affairs as individuals, then your choice will remain: crappy elections -- or reigns of terror. Either way, you'll just be proving Hobbes right. And I can't think of anything more depressing than that.

                So in the end, the geriatrics who are saying today that they'll oppose any kind of rigged election are full of sh*t, and you know it. Give 'em all $100 markers in Las Vegas for the slots and comp their early bird specials and their little revolution will disappear faster than a fart in the wind. "The sun, the moon, and the stars" will not be falling from the sky just yet.
                Al Gore accepted the court decision.

                https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...ntial-election

                “I accept the finality of the outcome, which will be ratified next Monday in the Electoral College” he said. “And tonight, for the sake of our unity as a people and the strength of our democracy, I offer my concession.”


                Meanwhile, Trump calls the Latino judges who ruled against him (in one case) "Mexicans."

                Big difference! So, if courts are involved and Trump losses by a small margin, I do not see him acting in a unifying way.

                And yes, there is a difference between saying and doing things but saying things still sets a dangerous path. Words that excite passions can have real consequences.

                By the way, did you notice many Trump supporters/veterans here criticizing Millie walking with fatigues next to Trump during the church tour and soon after it was cleared with police and gas?

                I did not!

                https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...cs#post5198517

                Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                That is the one uniform that soldiers wear...everywhere. Walmart, grocery stores, gas stations, restaurants....... the public is used to seeing that specific uniform.
                Instead, I saw much more criticism against the critics.


                And after Millie himself admitted his mistake, they chose to ignore the issue and remain silent

                https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...es#post5200204

                From the OP link

                "I should not have been there. My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics. As a commissioned uniformed officer, it was a mistake that I have learned from, and I sincerely hope we all can learn from it,"
                Last edited by pamak; 31 Jul 20, 21:24.
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                  "Dem's are fightin' words!"



                  No fer nuttin', but you should've seen Jr bunt one in five-hole back in March. It was a thing of beauty. Then he hip-checked their winger into the door his teammates forgot to close. Oh, how that made me swell with pride.



                  The American way is built on precedent, one upon the other, like a layer cake. Ford pardoning Nixon was the wrong thing to do. Yeah, it put lowered the partisan flames, which were riding pretty high at the time, but it sent the wrong message: presidents ARE above the law. There's no doubt in my mind that Bill & Hillary Clinton belong behind bars -- but their former office is still a impenetrable shield. Would it be unfair to deprive Trump of that shield? Probably -- but it's going to happen sooner or later, and let's be honest here: he's gone that extra mile to make himself loved, so I won't be too bothered if Trump is the be the example. Where the rubber meets the road, no one with two brain cells to rub together is going to risk anything for Trump's sake. He's on his own.
                  Well said. Yup, Nixon went quietly having secured immunity from Ford from an insurance deal that Nixon made in return for the vice-presidency. I have never shared your disdain for the Clintons but I concede that you know a lot more about it than me. The issue of immunity in return for leaving office peacefully has occurred to me, in fact I'd support it, not that I have any say in the matter. It isn't really built on American precedent, this is a dilemma for any person who does wrong doing in power anywhere. How to survive and not have to answer for their crimes. Most often the answer is to do whatever you can to stay in power so you can manage the situation.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                    No fer nuttin', but you should've seen Jr bunt one in five-hole back in March. It was a thing of beauty. Then he hip-checked their winger into the door his teammates forgot to close. Oh, how that made me swell with pride.
                    Thanks for the update on Jr., glad to hear. Fantastic.


                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by pamak View Post
                      Al Gore accepted the court decision.

                      https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...ntial-election

                      “I accept the finality of the outcome, which will be ratified next Monday in the Electoral College” he said. “And tonight, for the sake of our unity as a people and the strength of our democracy, I offer my concession.”
                      That's what Al Gore should have said on 8 Nov -- not 13 Dec: "for the sake of our blah blah blah." For the sake of Al Gore, Al Gore challenged the count in a presidential election -- for the first time in 212 years. He should've done like Nixon and slinked away.



                      Too bad his inferiority complex wouldn't allow him to stay away. Read Hunter Thompson for an outstanding description of the pathology that animates electoral politics. It'll make you wonder why we even try.

                      Originally posted by pamak View Post
                      Meanwhile, Trump calls the Latino judges who ruled against him (in one case) "Mexicans."
                      'Cause he's an even bigger a$$hole than Nixon! Are you surprised?

                      Originally posted by pamak View Post
                      Big difference! So, if courts are involved and Trump losses by a small margin, I do not see him acting in a unifying way.
                      Trump's been doing that his entire adult life. He's a nasty little adolescent. I've been seeing that act for better than three decades already. But just because he's bitter doesn't mean that he'll be joined by legions of sympathizers. The good news is that most Trump voters already have one foot in the grave anyway, and pretty soon Trump's ineptitude dealing with covid will put most of the in the cemetery.

                      Where they'll vote for Democrats.

                      Originally posted by pamak View Post
                      And yes, there is a difference between saying and doing things but saying things still sets a dangerous path. Words that excite passions can have real consequences.
                      Better be careful with that sentiment, lest it prompt some smart fellow to suggest that we amend the First Amendment.

                      Originally posted by pamak View Post
                      By the way, did you notice many Trump supporters/veterans here criticizing Millie walking with fatigues next to Trump during the church tour and soon after it was cleared with police and gas?

                      I did not! Instead, I saw much more criticism against the critics

                      and after Millie himself apologized, they chose to ignore the issue and remain silent

                      https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...es#post5200204
                      Partisan politics: my guy = good, and your guy = bad. That's as far as the logic goes, and that's why I don't pay too much attention to the hyper-partisan criticism, of Trump, of Obama, of Bush, of the Clinton's. They all suck, and they all more-or-less suck the same way, just to differing degrees, is all.
                      I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post

                        Thanks for the update on Jr., glad to hear. Fantastic.

                        In frustrating news, Jr cut his hand to the bone while cleaning glass he had dropped.... Twice. The good news is that there was no tendon, ligament, or nerve damage. It must've been a magical piece of glass, 'cause by rights it should've hit one of those significant structures -- but the Good Lord was looking out for him, what can I say. Jr was out of commission for two weeks. He just had the stitches pulled the other day, and he should return to full duty Monday.
                        I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                          That's what Al Gore should have said on 8 Nov -- not 13 Dec: "for the sake of our blah blah blah." For the sake of Al Gore, Al Gore challenged the count in a presidential election -- for the first time in 212 years. He should've done like Nixon and slinked away.



                          Too bad his inferiority complex wouldn't allow him to stay away. Read Hunter Thompson for an outstanding description of the pathology that animates electoral politics. It'll make you wonder why we even try.



                          'Cause he's an even bigger a$$hole than Nixon! Are you surprised?



                          Trump's been doing that his entire adult life. He's a nasty little adolescent. I've been seeing that act for better than three decades already. But just because he's bitter doesn't mean that he'll be joined by legions of sympathizers. The good news is that most Trump voters already have one foot in the grave anyway, and pretty soon Trump's ineptitude dealing with covid will put most of the in the cemetery.

                          Where they'll vote for Democrats.



                          I disagree since the result was too close. What matters is that Gore let the third branch have the final say and accepted the verdict even though he disagreed.


                          Better be careful with that sentiment, lest it prompt some smart fellow to suggest that we amend the First Amendment.



                          Partisan politics: my guy = good, and your guy = bad. That's as far as the logic goes, and that's why I don't pay too much attention to the hyper-partisan criticism, of Trump, of Obama, of Bush, of the Clinton's. They all suck, and they all more-or-less suck the same way, just to differing degrees, is all.
                          I disagree with your claim about what Al Gore should have done. it was too close...

                          I do not propose a First Amendment restriction. Plus it is not effective. Even countries with wayyy less freedom of speech could not avoid civil wars which were often triggered when one side refused to accept an election result. I am not saying that there will be a civil war in the US if Trump losses and refuses to concede, but I do not discount sporadic incidents by people like the armed idiot of Pizzagate who may try to "save us" from a perceived tyranny...

                          While you may want to ignore partisan politics, it does not mean that you an ignore their effects. And instigators in positions of power have the opportunity to
                          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
                            Well said. Yup, Nixon went quietly having secured immunity from Ford from an insurance deal that Nixon made in return for the vice-presidency.
                            There was no guarantee that Ford was going to pardon Nixon. For one thing, Nixon hadn't been charged with any crimes at that point, much less convicted, so there wasn't actually anything to pardon Nixon for. For another, by accepting Ford's pardon, Nixon tacitly admitted wrongdoing. Again, only the guilty can be pardoned -- and Nixon's guilt was never legally established. Ultimately, I believe that it was GOP leaders in Congress that talked Ford into it: I don't believe that there was a prearranged quid pro quo in play.

                            Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
                            I have never shared your disdain for the Clintons but I concede that you know a lot more about it than me.
                            How could Bill Clinton's White House counsel Vince Foster have died by self-inflicted gunshot wound if there was no blood on the ground at the scene where Foster's body was found? I don't know how they do it in Canada, but Americans who shoot themselves in the head don't usually travel to a different location to be found by police.

                            Yeah, quite literally, I do believe that the Clinton's -- Bill and Hillary both -- got away with murder.

                            Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
                            The issue of immunity in return for leaving office peacefully has occurred to me, in fact I'd support it, not that I have any say in the matter. It isn't really built on American precedent, this is a dilemma for any person who does wrong doing in power anywhere. How to survive and not have to answer for their crimes. Most often the answer is to do whatever you can to stay in power so you can manage the situation.
                            Isn't that why Robert Mugabe held on so long for? Not necessarily for himself, but for his henchmen, who had no hope of immunity from any kind of reformist government.

                            Two centuries ago, the executive branch was not the most powerful; it was originally Congress. The exigencies of the modern world have evolved the American executive into an "imperial presidency." Since at least FDR, probably a lot earlier, we've sat on our hands and not merely watched this happen: we demanded that it happened. Americans, like most peoples of the world, still haven't outgrown their desire for a man on a white horse -- except nowadays it's an armored limousine escorted by a platoon of Secret Service runners. We want a strong man, so we tolerate the undermining of our Constitution, year after year, generation after generation, until the relationships between the three branches of Federal government bear no resemblance to those defined in the Constitution. The problem is not that Donald Trump is currently President; the problem is that the Office of the President has long ago ceased to be defined and restrained by law. Think of it this way: two centuries ago the ancient figure most admired and put forth as a role model was Cincinnatus. Fast forward to the present, and two of the last four presidents most resembled Nero, physically as well as morally. Need I say more?
                            I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by slick_miester View Post


                              Two centuries ago, the executive branch was not the most powerful; it was originally Congress. The exigencies of the modern world have evolved the American executive into an "imperial presidency." Since at least FDR, probably a lot earlier, we've sat on our hands and not merely watched this happen: we demanded that it happened. Americans, like most peoples of the world, still haven't outgrown their desire for a man on a white horse -- except nowadays it's an armored limousine escorted by a platoon of Secret Service runners. We want a strong man, so we tolerate the undermining of our Constitution, year after year, generation after generation, until the relationships between the three branches of Federal government bear no resemblance to those defined in the Constitution. The problem is not that Donald Trump is currently President; the problem is that the Office of the President has long ago ceased to be defined and restrained by law. Think of it this way: two centuries ago the ancient figure most admired and put forth as a role model was Cincinnatus. Fast forward to the present, and two of the last four presidents most resembled Nero, physically as well as morally. Need I say more?
                              I agree with you that executive power has grown way too much. Same process has been happening in Canada with power moving to the PMO and away from parliament. That increased executive power is not properly restrained by law is also true. Cincinnatus would be appalled by the current occupant of the chief executive but he was the rarest of all types of leaders - a benevolent dictator who left office on his own after doing his duty. I just disagree with your conclusion. The main problem right now is that Donald Trump is president of the United States. The danger to the long inspiring experiment of the United States' form of democracy is now threatened. If Donald Trump gets another term he packs the courts and extends the power of the presidency creating a new form of government that would be a curse for a generation. I shudder to even think about it. United States has always been an outlier in the sense of a political system based on brinkmanship and then coming up with a good solution at the last minute just seconds before the crisis. That is both a criticism and a compliment. BUT it is too far to the brink right now. Another term of Donald Trump will push it over that brink that the United States has always successfully avoided.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
                                Every four years that drum gets beat: "if he loses the election, he won't go." In 244 years it hasn't happened. When it does, you be sure to wake me, okay.
                                When was the last time a president hinted that he might not leave office?
                                We are not now that strength which in old days
                                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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