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  • Massena
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

    You may feel superior but the the blind clock maker says otherwise. It's not about logic but fitness.
    And Trump is not fit to president. His lack of interest and action with the pandemic proves it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Massena
    replied
    Instead of following the bad example of Trump in making up names for people, which is a middle school application, perhaps you should be concerned with Trump's refusal to answer Chris Wallace's question in the Fox interview if Trump would step down if defeated in November.

    That is in the very least troubling and certainly indicates that Trump is an authoritarian and might not accede to the results of the election in November.

    But of course you really are not concerned with that, now are you? You are more concerned with labeling people with whom you don't agree with your fall back position being accusing them of a made-up psychobabble 'term.'

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgdhp
    • President Donald Trump declined Sunday to directly answer whether he will accept the results of the 2020 election.
    • During the interview, Wallace debuted the results of Fox News' latest national poll, which showed the presumptive Democratic nominee Joe Biden leading Trump by 8%.
    • "First of all, I'm not losing because those are fake polls," Trump said. "They were fake in 2016 and now they're even more fake."
    President Donald Trump declined Sunday to directly answer whether he will accept the results of the 2020 election, adding that he will "have to see" and claiming without evidence that mail-in voting will "rig the election."

    Trump's comments came during a wide-ranging interview with "Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace in which he criticized so-called cancel culture and repeatedly downplayed the coronavirus, which has infected more than 3.7 million people in the U.S. and killed at least 140,131, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University.

    During the interview, Wallace debuted the results of Fox News' latest national poll, which showed Democratic candidate for president Joe Biden leading Trump by 8%. The poll showed Biden leading on specific issues as well, including a 1% lead over Trump on the economy.

    When presented with the results, Trump downplayed the findings as "fake polls."

    "First of all, I'm not losing because those are fake polls," he said. "They were fake in 2016 and now they're even more fake."

    Last edited by Massena; 19 Jul 20, 11:40.

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  • wolfhnd
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    Tell the clock maker it's about breeding, style and timing mostly, if it was about fitness the fat basterd wouldn't be on stage there,

    he would have been eaten long ago
    Realistically looking at bugeye Schiff, diabetic Nadler, shuffling Pelosi, passing out Hillary, horse face AOC, sissy Obama, senile Biden, crazy Waters, etc. seems the Democrats have the mutation burden.

    Leave a comment:


  • Snowygerry
    replied
    Tell the clock maker it's about breeding, style and timing mostly, if it was about fitness the fat basterd wouldn't be on stage there,

    he would have been eaten long ago

    Leave a comment:


  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post

    You may feel superior but the the blind clock maker says otherwise. It's not about logic but fitness.
    Good point.

    Leave a comment:


  • wolfhnd
    replied
    Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
    You may feel superior but the the blind clock maker says otherwise. It's not about logic but fitness.

    Leave a comment:


  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by Judith View Post

    Actually that is not correct. At least not for Germany. You are only allowed to vote if you are german citizen. On a city/county level, EU citizens, resident for more than three months, are allowed to vote, they are not allowed to vote on state or federal level though. Legal immigrants are only allowed to warch the show.

    Concerning foreign involvement, i see no reason why this should be allowed anywhere.
    I'm strictly talking about the local level. As I said, national level is an entirely different matter.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparlingo
    replied
    Originally posted by DingBat View Post
    It's not my business who the citizens of the US vote into office.
    No it isn't but foreign opinion is something valid for voters to consider before voting even if that voter gives it no weight. Take BREXIT, European opinion must have had some weight with voters. If foreign opinion is a valid consideration for voters then it is therefore valid to express that opinion. I'm in no way suggesting a parallel but in the 1933 general election in Germany should Austrians have been barred from expressing their opinion of Hitler because it was none of their business? It was very much became their business when they got gobbled up in 1937. Foreigners expressing an opinion on a candidate is legitimate in any election, anywhere, anytime and voters are free to disregard that opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post

    The naturalization oath is pretty clear:

    "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."




    The immigration status can be changed once you are in country, it doesn't matter what type of visa was issued.

    My wife and daughter (step) came over on a tourist visa, one week later we married, 11 months later they were naturalized.
    The naturalization oath does not reflect the reality of dual citizenship during which the person is still connected (and has obligations) to his mother country.

    https://gr.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen...y-obligations/

    U.S. Embassy & Consulate in Greece

    Greek males between the ages of 19 and 45 are required by Greek law to perform military service. This applies to any individual whom the Greek authorities consider to be Greek, regardless of whether the individual considers himself Greek, has a foreign citizenship and passport, or was born or lives outside of Greece.

    I am pretty sure that other countries (not all) have similar laws. This means that if there is a general Greco-Turkish war, and a need for full mobilization, it is veryyyy possible that some Greek-Americans can be called to serve in the Greek Army or risk losing their Greek citizenship if they choose to ignore such call. The response will depend on the personal choice of a Greek-American, but I would not be surprised if in real life many will choose to answer the call because they have not really renounced allegiance and allegiance to a foreign state. We saw in other cases in the past how hyphen-Americans were actually willing to leave the US to go and fight for another country (Arab-Israeli wars).

    The fact that something can happen does not mean that there are not obstacles in achieving it. Same with Kari's example of 5 year permanent residency.
    Last edited by pamak; 16 Jul 20, 12:14.

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  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post
    Still, I wonder what would be the reason for not allowing permanent residents to vote in local elections. These are matters that directly affect you (something as simple as water charges). National elections are naturally an entirely different thing.
    I think the main reason for the push back on permanent residents is that there are municipalities that allow illegal immigrants to participate in local elections.

    For permanent residents, they have a vested interests in local elections. Illegals have no interest and negate the votes of those that do.

    Leave a comment:


  • Judith
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post

    I wasn't referring to USA specifically, legal immigrants can for example vote in many European countries.
    Actually that is not correct. At least not for Germany. You are only allowed to vote if you are german citizen. On a city/county level, EU citizens, resident for more than three months, are allowed to vote, they are not allowed to vote on state or federal level though. Legal immigrants are only allowed to warch the show.

    Concerning foreign involvement, i see no reason why this should be allowed anywhere.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sparlingo
    replied
    Former ambassador to Canada, Bruce Heyman, is heading up the get out the vote of American citizens living abroad for the Biden campaign. Some interesting statistics, there were 622,492 Americans living in Canada eligible to vote in the 2016 election but only 5.3% did so. I expect that some Canadians will join in Heyman's "get out the vote" initiative in Canada. Hell, I'll even call my brother in law to encourage him to vote, but I would be death to tell you guys who I'd encourage him to vote for but some people might be able to guess. There may be as many as 9 million eligible American voters living overseas.

    https://www.msnbc.com/morning-joe/wa...ut-87740997771

    Leave a comment:


  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by Nichols View Post


    If you a living or visiting a country you should be paying taxes and following the laws of that country. That doesn't give a non citizen the right to participate in elections. I lived in various countries while I was in the service, some had SOFA agreements, some didn't. Some had infrastructure that supported the US presence, some didn't. Never once did I believe that I should have the right to vote in local elections.
    If you're visiting you need to pay taxes on purchases, but if you're a permanent resident you pay taxes on income and everything else as well. You also pay for services. That in my opinion should give you the right to vote in local elections, things that affect everything around you. Not a hill I would die on, but it doesn't really make sense to have it the other way around.



    Not sure if this needs to be answered by me, do you consider me far right?
    No, poor train of thought on my part. Still, I wonder what would be the reason for not allowing permanent residents to vote in local elections. These are matters that directly affect you (something as simple as water charges). National elections are naturally an entirely different thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by Karri View Post

    I wasn't referring to USA specifically, legal immigrants can for example vote in many European countries.
    Okay, I thought you were referring to the USA.

    Originally posted by Karri View Post
    Well, there is plenty of things stopping one from becoming a citizen (for starters, five years of permanent residence). But that wasn't the point. If there is no representation should you then be exempt from things like taxes? I am more interested in your reasoning rather than how things are.
    Five years isn't written in stone, there a numerous ways to expedite naturalization.

    If you a living or visiting a country you should be paying taxes and following the laws of that country. That doesn't give a non citizen the right to participate in elections. I lived in various countries while I was in the service, some had SOFA agreements, some didn't. Some had infrastructure that supported the US presence, some didn't. Never once did I believe that I should have the right to vote in local elections.

    Originally posted by Karri View Post
    One of the favourite talking points of the far right is that immigrants don't assimilate or integrate, yet they often also hold these conflicting ideas that make it harder to assimilate or integrate.
    Not sure if this needs to be answered by me, do you consider me far right?

    Leave a comment:


  • Nichols
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post
    Also. a legal immigrant who gets US citizenship does not necessarily declare independence from the birth nation. There are many cases of dual citizenship.
    The naturalization oath is pretty clear:

    "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."


    Originally posted by pamak View Post
    Finally, there are cases of legal immigrants who do not have a clear path to citizenship. The type of visa they get when they enter the US as legal immigrants is important...
    The immigration status can be changed once you are in country, it doesn't matter what type of visa was issued.

    My wife and daughter (step) came over on a tourist visa, one week later we married, 11 months later they were naturalized.

    Leave a comment:

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