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  • #61
    Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
    Then provide your facts that the children can not be affected by the long term effects instead of your claims.

    Slightly wrong again. We already know it causes them. In other words we know already that it causes damage which is either long term or even permanent. I.e. it causes long term effects. What we don't know is if that is all the long term effects it causes. It can be much, much worse than that. SARS caused neurological problems to sizable number of the persons infected by it after all.
    It is impossible to prove a negative. Prove that an asteroid won't hit the Earth and wipe out humanity tomorrow morning.
    What we do know is that children catch it less than adults, rarely suffer significant complications and virtually never die from it unless they have significant co morbidities.
    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Nichols View Post
      The facts are we do not know the long term effects, your links provided those facts.
      Not all of them. We know enough already that it would be beyond stupid to voluntarily expose some one to the disease even if they had a good chance of recovering from it.
      Completely wrong again. We do not know the long term effects on children....again, your links provided that.
      Now you are moving the goalposts - just different direction. First the children could not be affected by it. Now it is just 'not known'. We do know it cause long term effects on people. If you want to say that it won't do so on children you need to prove it - or just accept that you simply do not know and exactly like it stated initially it may well cause long term effects even on mild cases (i.e. even with children).
      Again...for the 4th or 5th time.....learn about childhood cancer and how they determined what the long term effects are.
      We are not talking about cancer. You are comparing apples with oranges.
      It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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      • #63
        Originally posted by Nichols View Post

        The facts are we do not know the long term effects, your links provided those facts.

        The fact I have been clearly stating is that we don't know the long term effects.



        Completely wrong again. We do not know the long term effects on children....again, your links provided that.

        What we do know is that children are more resilient than adults, this is a fact backed up by childhood cancer research.

        Again...for the 4th or 5th time.....learn about childhood cancer and how they determined what the long term effects are.


        You can't present facts to the people who want to believe that Trump is to blame for covid\everything. How can you know the LONG TERM effects until it has been long term? That should be simple enough for everyone to understand. If Trump said we need oxygen to survive these same people would be saying that he is wrong\stupid for saying that. It has come to that point. I don't believe that Trump is perfect or anything, he definitely has his faults, but my gosh people don't let your hatred for him blind you.

        “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein

        The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          Now you are moving the goalposts - just different direction. First the children could not be affected by it.
          Go ahaed and post where I said "children could not be affected by it"

          Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          Now it is just 'not known'. We do know it cause long term effects on people.
          I've been consistent, we don't know the long term effects. We wont know the long term effects with children until decades from now.

          Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
          We are not talking about cancer. You are comparing apples with oranges.
          We are talking about long term effects of COVID-19 on children.

          Childhood cancer is a good example of how data is collected and long term effects are proven.

          Not "apples and oranges"

          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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          • #65
            Originally posted by slick24 View Post

            You can't present facts to the people who want to believe that Trump is to blame for covid\everything. How can you know the LONG TERM effects until it has been long term? That should be simple enough for everyone to understand. If Trump said we need oxygen to survive these same people would be saying that he is wrong\stupid for saying that. It has come to that point. I don't believe that Trump is perfect or anything, he definitely has his faults, but my gosh people don't let your hatred for him blind you.
            Good point......I'll stop marking time.
            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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            • #66
              Originally posted by slick24 View Post
              How can you know the LONG TERM effects until it has been long term? That should be simple enough for everyone to understand
              It certainly seems too complicated for you to understand. We already know that certain effects caused by trauma are long term. We also know that the coronavirus may cause them even in mild cases. So are you saying that somehow the known long term trauma can not exist because you just don't like the implications? Or are you saying that despite that we know that certain trauma causes long term effects that can not be the case when the coronavirus causes that exact trauma? What we don't know if it causes even further long term effects - which only makes it potentially even worse.
              If Trump said we need oxygen to survive these same people would be saying that he is wrong\stupid for saying that. It has come to that point. I don't believe that Trump is perfect or anything, he definitely has his faults, but my gosh people don't let your hatred for him blind you.
              I don't hate Trump. I can't understand why any one would vote for him though, but hate? No. I just hope his ineptitude does not result in needless deaths.
              It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Nichols View Post
                Go ahaed and post where I said "children could not be affected by it"
                You forget it already? To the question "the disease can cause long term damage?" You replied: "In children, no, I don't agree."

                How exactly could that be understood in any different manner?
                We are talking about long term effects of COVID-19 on children.

                Childhood cancer is a good example of how data is collected and long term effects are proven.

                Not "apples and oranges"
                Except this is not a cancer.
                It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                  It certainly seems too complicated for you to understand. We already know that certain effects caused by trauma are long term. We also know that the coronavirus may cause them even in mild cases. So are you saying that somehow the known long term trauma can not exist because you just don't like the implications? Or are you saying that despite that we know that certain trauma causes long term effects that can not be the case when the coronavirus causes that exact trauma? What we don't know if it causes even further long term effects - which only makes it potentially even worse.

                  I don't hate Trump. I can't understand why any one would vote for him though, but hate? No. I just hope his ineptitude does not result in needless deaths.
                  No, I am saying that until it has been long term we can't say what the long term effects are so it is stupid to argue about it. Is that too complicated for you to understand????? You have to bring insults into a conversation like the left does. I was stating an opinion without insulting anyone but I know you and the majority of the left can not do this. Of course some things cause long term damage but we will not know if this does until time has passed.

                  This whole thing is overblown anyway...



                  Now I am not saying there is no virus and it is not dangerous. I am just saying get a grip people it is not TEOTWAWKI.
                  Last edited by slick24; 17 Jul 20, 12:38.

                  “Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth.” -- Albert Einstein

                  The US Constitution doesn't need to be rewritten it needs to be reread

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by slick24 View Post

                    No, I am saying that until it has been long term we can't say what the long term effects are so it is stupid to argue about it. Is that too complicated for you to understand????? You have to bring insults into a conversation like all the left does. I was stating an opinion without insulting anyone but I know you and the majority of the left can not do this. Of course some things cause long term damage but we will not know if this does until time has passed.

                    This whole thing is overblown anyway...

                    Makes COVID about 2/3 as bad as typical, seasonal flu. So far.
                    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                    “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                    Present Current Events are the Future's History

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                    • #70
                      More Than 20 Countries Are Reopening Schools. The US Should Take Note.

                      ...
                      n March, school shutdowns around the globe caused 1.5 billion children to begin schooling from home, representing over 91% of children, UNESCO estimates.

                      Here in the U.S., conversations about the state of school reopenings have hit a fever pitch as August quickly approaches. Many parents—some 71% in Education Next’s 2020 poll—feel their children learned less this spring than they would have had schools remained open.

                      As Science magazine reports, over 20 countries reopened schools in June, and some, like Taiwan, Nicaragua, and Sweden, never closed them to begin with. Day cares remained open for essential workers in many countries, and although there are exceptions, outbreaks have generally been rare.

                      To be sure, there have been some cases of outbreaks at schools that have reopened. As Jennifer Couzin-Frankel, Gretchen Vogel, and Meagan Weiland report in Science, more than 150 students and 25 staff members contracted the virus at a joint middle/high school in Jerusalem, and 96 students and teachers caught the virus at a New Zealand high school before that country’s lockdown went into effect.

                      Additionally, two day care centers in Canada saw spikes among staff and reclosed.

                      Overall, however, the data suggest that it is rare for children to develop severe symptoms if they contract the virus, and it is rare for them to spread the virus if they do get it.

                      That is why many countries, particularly in Europe, have at least partially reopened schools. Here is a sample of what countries around the world are doing when it comes to reopening:
                      ....
                      https://www.dailysignal.com/2020/07/...U20zb29JIn0%3D
                      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                      “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                      Present Current Events are the Future's History

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by slick24 View Post
                        No, I am saying that until it has been long term we can't say what the long term effects are so it is stupid to argue about it.
                        Except when we already can see effects which show trauma that has long term effects being caused by the disease. Or are you really saying that when we know that certain type of injury is a long term effect - and we know that the infection has caused it - that it still can not be said to cause long term damage?

                        The thing we don't know is if it causes even more damage. But we already know it can cause long term effects even in mild cases.
                        Now I am not saying there is no virus and it is not dangerous. I am just saying get a grip people it is not TEOTWAWKI.
                        If you take it seriously it will certainly wont be such.
                        It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                          As Science magazine reports, over 20 countries reopened schools in June, and some, like Taiwan, Nicaragua, and Sweden, never closed them to begin with. Day cares remained open for essential workers in many countries, and although there are exceptions, outbreaks have generally been rare.
                          At least here Sweden is generally considered to be a very bad example to follow.

                          The school case is still open and the study between Finnish and Swedish schools requested by UNESCO is very interesting. However - even if the schoolkids could not effectively spread the disease they may still get it. Even if they have it only as mild we still don't know if they can avoid long term damage from it. Then there is the additional problem with teachers and staff who may get it. And we don't know enough to make it clear that it would be safe for a child to have this disease. If the spread of the disease is largely under control then sure, open the schools but i would not advocate doing so when it is not.
                          Overall, however, the data suggest that it is rare for children to develop severe symptoms if they contract the virus, and it is rare for them to spread the virus if they do get it.
                          Yet it is already known that the disease does not need to have severe symptoms to cause long term effects. Which is kind of the problem. We don't know enough. We know it is possible and that it happens but we don't know exactly why and how.
                          That is why many countries, particularly in Europe, have at least partially reopened schools. Here is a sample of what countries around the world are doing when it comes to reopening
                          Here schools were not opened until the situation was under control. I think that is a fairly reasonable starting point.
                          It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Vaeltaja View Post
                            At least here Sweden is generally considered to be a very bad example to follow.

                            The school case is still open and the study between Finnish and Swedish schools requested by UNESCO is very interesting. However - even if the schoolkids could not effectively spread the disease they may still get it. Even if they have it only as mild we still don't know if they can avoid long term damage from it. Then there is the additional problem with teachers and staff who may get it. And we don't know enough to make it clear that it would be safe for a child to have this disease. If the spread of the disease is largely under control then sure, open the schools but i would not advocate doing so when it is not.

                            Yet it is already known that the disease does not need to have severe symptoms to cause long term effects. Which is kind of the problem. We don't know enough. We know it is possible and that it happens but we don't know exactly why and how.

                            Here schools were not opened until the situation was under control. I think that is a fairly reasonable starting point.
                            Actually Sweden seems to have pretty much the same results among children re Covid infections as you did despite your lock down.

                            https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKCN24G2IS

                            “In conclusion, (the) closure or not of schools had no measurable direct impact on the number of laboratory confirmed cases in school-aged children in Finland or Sweden,”
                            "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                            • #74
                              Other countries are opening schools because their count of sick and dead are demonstrably lower than the US. The US now leads the world in numbers of sick and dead from COVID-19 and the numbers are still increasing.
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                                Actually Sweden seems to have pretty much the same results among children re Covid infections as you did despite your lock down.
                                Sure, but Finland did not enforce any kind of curfew. Fair number of kids regularly went out with other kids (was often even in national news) and hang around together. And grades pre through 3 remained open. So it is not exactly a comparison between absolute extremes. And the measures taken inside school hardly mattered when kids clustered together outside the school. Which is why i said it is interesting but i wouldn't immediately draw from it the conclusions some of here seem to be making - especially without any understanding of the context.
                                It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

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