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Do you think the Pandemic etc. could lead to the US breaking into 6 or so countries?

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  • Do you think the Pandemic etc. could lead to the US breaking into 6 or so countries?

    I think that the Covid 19 Pandemic and the other recent racial, ethnic and class unrest are leading to a situation where the US could break into six or so countries. What got me thinking about this was the talk during the ongoing crisis of "interstate compacts". These apparently have worked pretty well in terms of distributing PPE etc. For example, there was a Northeastern Compact, where NY took the lead. These had to come into place because the Federal Gov't proved unable and or unwilling to do what needed to be done. Hard for the states to do it all - California almost 100 times larger than VT for example. And if there were 6 nations of 55 million people or so, these countries would be about the size of the countries of Western Europe (Germany/UK/France/Spain/Italy).

    I see maybe Northeastern US (the old East), the Confederacy minus TX, TX with OK and NM, Calif with AZ, NV/HI, the Northwest with AK, and the Midwest. Maybe parts of Canada can go with parts of the US (or vice versa) - the Maritimes and NE, the Midwest and prairie provinces etc.

    On other threads years ago I started or participated in, I expressed the thought that if there were a hundred rolls of the dice, you would only get a continental US 2 or 3 times. Maybe we are reverting to nature.

    Any thoughts?

  • #2
    Someone predicted this about 12 years ago, unfortunately I can't remember who it was exactly. Needless to say, the idea seemed crazy at the time, but has suddenly become much more plausible today.

    My opinion is that life is too short to constantly bicker with the same people over the same things for our entire life. So why not let everyone live how they want to live? It's clear that most of us are too far apart to ever coexist peacefully within the same country, so what's the point in punishing ourselves.. This is not a healthy society we live in and it likely never will be. It's like being in a toxic relationship where both parties know it's toxic, yet they still refuse to split apart. Why?

    I think 6 different countries is too much, but I do like the general idea of a split.

    There are a couple things stopping it from happening though. One, I don't see how a split would be more financially viable for the powers that be and everything comes down to money. Two, who's going to be the politician to even suggest this?

    We would have to descend into complete civil unrest before it's even suggested.
    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
    - Benjamin Franklin

    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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    • #3
      Thanks for the comments, Tactikill J. I guess I see it as a gradual movement over time. The six or so nations (ignoring Canada for the moment) would be centralized nations, like France. The states would gradually fade away (in my state of Massachusetts, the counties were abolished several decades ago - the same type of thing). For defense, space, etc. there could be organizations like in the EU.

      There probably would be a lot of internal migration - based on among other things race, ethnicity, political views, etc. Capitals maybe NY, Atlanta, Chicago, Austin, Sacramento, Seattle or Denver. Or maybe 7 countries with one based around Denver. Or maybe Canada remains a country, but picks up Alaska.

      Edit: I think Florida would be a separate country - maybe looking towards Cuba and the Caribbean. Although of course the Panhandle is quite different from the rest of the state.
      Last edited by lakechampainer; 14 Jul 20, 19:14.

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      • #4
        Given the way that the continent was colonized, borders really should have been drawn north to south, not east-west. The north east US states will always have more in common with the Canadian maritime provinces than with the west coast. Ditto, British Columbia has more in common with the US west coast states.

        Actually doing this, however, isn't really feasible or even desirable.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by DingBat View Post
          Given the way that the continent was colonized, borders really should have been drawn north to south, not east-west. The north east US states will always have more in common with the Canadian maritime provinces than with the west coast. Ditto, British Columbia has more in common with the US west coast states.

          Actually doing this, however, isn't really feasible or even desirable.
          For sure, Dingbat - Massachusetts in particular was livid after the fortress of Louisbourg was returned to France by Britain in 1748 after it had been captured in 1745, largely through the efforts of Massachusetts, which was looking to expand business interests, etc. I had a thread about this, but it attracted very little interest, so I won't "bump" it.

          A lot of the commercial and other leading classes in MA lost faith in the British after this, and stewed over it until The Revolution. Those British Bastards sure could be tone-deaf: Alienating people in a key colony over trifles in India. The same people who wouldn't give Washington a commission and threatened Franklin's life before Parliament.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_...isbourg_(1745)

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          • #6
            I don’t think so. The reason being Is how would the US military be split up among the five or six countries?

            The multi billion dollar sports industry would also face challenges as well.
            Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
            Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

            George S Patton

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            • #7
              No.

              Pruitt
              Pruitt, you are truly an expert! Kelt06

              Have you been struck by the jawbone of an ASS lately?

              by Khepesh "This is the logic of Pruitt"

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              • #8
                On large scale maps of the USA, my state Washington is often show as "blue" = Democrat/Left. However, on smaller scale maps such asper counties, only a bout a half dozen of those 39 would be blue, rest are red with a few purple. The "blue" tend to be the ones with large cities/urban areas and even there it sometimes is only slight more of the population voting blue than red, but enough to color by majority.

                Point being any such break-up~break-out in the USA isn't going to be on state lines/borders. It's going to be neighborhoods versus neighborhoods, small towns versus bigger towns/cities, rural versus urban, etc. It would be very messy with a lot of blood shed and damage done before any clear demarcations begin to occur.
                TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

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                • #9
                  I can see it happening when people - i.e. decent Americans cooperate through things such as "interstate compacts" and see that governments can work. And maybe if the people who find ethnicity and race so important want to move, they should. People could "vote with their feet" again. It was only a few decades ago that people were still moving to California and Texas in droves. I don't say Florida as many of the new residents were retirees, not workers.

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                  • #10
                    From what I see on police twitter feeds the US does seem to be having widespread civil disorder. Mobs randomly attacking people and vandalism public monuments with little intervention from the police or national guard.
                    "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                    • #11
                      I think the whole red and blue thing is in many ways over done - most real people aren't into it - most real people don't watch Fox News or MSNBC - they may watch CNN. The red and blue is being supported by people who benefit on both "sides" - the usual suspects - I'll let others address those issues on the already existing 600 or so threads on the topic.

                      I will say, it sure seems the EU has done a better job dealing with the virus than we have, does it not?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by lakechampainer View Post
                        I think the whole red and blue thing is in many ways over done - most real people aren't into it - most real people don't watch Fox News or MSNBC - they may watch CNN. The red and blue is being supported by people who benefit on both "sides" - the usual suspects - I'll let others address those issues on the already existing 600 or so threads on the topic.

                        I will say, it sure seems the EU has done a better job dealing with the virus than we have, does it not?
                        Check your OP and foundation concept of this thread.

                        It's political/ideological divide, as expressed in "red" versus "blue", that would lead to any sort of breakup as you envision.

                        It's not going to be religion.
                        Region identity blurred decades ago thanks to media influence.

                        If you want to think in any other term it would be the wealth makers versus the wealth takers.
                        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                        “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

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                        • #13
                          From a citizen perspective, how exactly do we benefit by remaining united aside from having a strong military? I imagine the military would move to some sort of joint force anyway, so maybe even that benefit is moot.
                          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                          - Benjamin Franklin

                          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                            If you want to think in any other term it would be the wealth makers versus the wealth takers.
                            Which is always the other guy. It's pretty clear that how the wealth of USA is divided is arising to become a major issue.
                            Wisdom is personal

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                              From what I see on police twitter feeds the US does seem to be having widespread civil disorder. Mobs randomly attacking people and vandalism public monuments with little intervention from the police or national guard.
                              A lot of stuff going on that the MSM isn't reporting. People being set on fire, lynched, dismembered, shot over political arguments.
                              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                              Comment

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