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  • #31
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
    There's a reason why our current state of affairs are just as bad as our future outlook. Boomers are just as ignorant on basic civics as our younger generation. No surprise there, ignorant adults leads to ignorant children. But, all anyone wants to do is point their finger instead of holding their own accountable for anything.

    Only 32% of Americans can name the 3 branches of government:

    https://yubanet.com/usa/survey-only-...of-government/

    Basic stuff! 32% is actually an increase over the previous year.

    1 in 5 can't name a single branch:

    https://www.al.com/news/2019/09/1-in...overnment.html

    Only 7% of the country can name the first four presidents:

    https://www.usmint.gov/news/press-re...unding-fathers

    The survey above is from 2007. The kids you're complaining about were only 7 years old at that time. So this is not an issue exclusive to our youth. This is a cultural issue that boomers are just as much at fault for. Americans have been viewed as ignorant for decades and for good reason. We have a reality TV star as President, not because of our youth, but because of our older generation. A reality TV star who thinks you can inject Lysol into the body and his older generation supporters will deflect and defend such comments instead of being intellectually honest enough to call it what it is.
    Thing is that the percentage should be improving, not declining as we see with current generation of students/grads.

    I'd be in favor of something like this as part of the school curriculum, especially if wanting to have voting privilege.

    (rev. 01/19)
    Civics (History and Government) Questions for the Naturalization Test

    The 100 civics (history and government) questions and answers for the naturalization test are listed below. The civics test is an oral test and the USCIS Officer will ask the applicant up to 10 of the 100 civics questions. An applicant must answer 6 out of 10 questions correctly to pass the civics portion of the naturalization test.

    https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...tions/100q.pdf
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
    “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
      Indeed. I do find it hilarious, though, that "Sharyl Attkisson" considers Esquire to be far left. If Esquire is far left, where does she place the World Socialist Website?
      I know, sometimes it seems ...

      I've some related links that are mostly text, but haven't time right now to present, maybe later after errands, chores, etc.
      (Was half way tempted to make some of these posts part of a separate thread on "media and bias" )
      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
      “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

        I know, sometimes it seems ...

        I've some related links that are mostly text, but haven't time right now to present, maybe later after errands, chores, etc.
        (Was half way tempted to make some of these posts part of a separate thread on "media and bias" )
        If you and Massena wish, I can separate the posts you two have made on media bias and move them to a new thread.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

          Thing is that the percentage should be improving, not declining as we see with current generation of students/grads.

          I'd be in favor of something like this as part of the school curriculum, especially if wanting to have voting privilege.

          (rev. 01/19)
          Civics (History and Government) Questions for the Naturalization Test

          The 100 civics (history and government) questions and answers for the naturalization test are listed below. The civics test is an oral test and the USCIS Officer will ask the applicant up to 10 of the 100 civics questions. An applicant must answer 6 out of 10 questions correctly to pass the civics portion of the naturalization test.

          https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/...tions/100q.pdf
          The statistics are improving, which would seem to indicate that the younger generation is smarter than the older.

          I took civics in middle school and it was a lot more in-depth than the simple quiz you posted.. As far as I know it hasn't been removed from curriculum.
          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
          - Benjamin Franklin

          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Skoblin View Post

            If you and Massena wish, I can separate the posts you two have made on media bias and move them to a new thread.
            Hmmm

            They are a bit off topic to the OP ....
            ... yeah I'm for it.

            On my way out the door so back with you later.
            Thanks
            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
            “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

              The statistics are improving, which would seem to indicate that the younger generation is smarter than the older.

              I took civics in middle school and it was a lot more in-depth than the simple quiz you posted.. As far as I know it hasn't been removed from curriculum.
              Not my experience with raising two sons during the 90s and dealing with public school students in recent years.
              Civics = history and government is taught less and grasped even lessor.

              If you've got statistics ~ data ....

              I should hope your middle school civics was more in depth. That "simple test" is part of the process for legal immigrants seeking citizenship. I'd agree it should be a bit harder. I also think it something future citizens born here should need to pass.
              TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
              “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                Not my experience with raising two sons during the 90s and dealing with public school students in recent years.
                Civics = history and government is taught less and grasped even lessor.

                If you've got statistics ~ data ....

                I should hope your middle school civics was more in depth. That "simple test" is part of the process for legal immigrants seeking citizenship. I'd agree it should be a bit harder. I also think it something future citizens born here should need to pass.
                It's not taught less - http://neatoday.org/2017/03/16/civic...ivics%20class.

                Regarding Americans needing to pass a civics test to vote, republicans wouldn't allow it, as it would disqualify half of their base, if not more.
                "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                - Benjamin Franklin

                The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                  You might want to re-read and/or understand your link better;

                  EXCERPT:
                  "It’s Not an Exaggeration to Say that Civics Education is in Crisis.

                  Only 25 percent of U.S. students reach the “proficient” standard on the NAEP Civics Assessment. White, wealthy students are four to six times as likely as Black and Hispanic students from low-income households to exceed that level. Here’s why: Students in wealthier public school districts are far more likely to receive high-quality civics education than students in low-income and majority-minority schools. "
                  ...
                  For example (from the NAEP Civics Assessment.) :
                  "Civics

                  The National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) civics assessment is designed to measure the civics knowledge and skills that are critical to the responsibilities of citizenship in the constitutional democracy of the United States. The assessment is administered to students at grades 4, 8, and 12. The most recent civics assessment was given in 2018 to approximately 13,400 students in grade 8. "
                  ...
                  https://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/civics/

                  Doesn't sound very encouraging given the best would be about 25% versus an earlier [email protected]% ...

                  Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                  Regarding Americans needing to pass a civics test to vote, republicans wouldn't allow it, as it would disqualify half of their base, if not more.
                  Obviously you don't know Conservatives and Republicans as well as you think. They would be the ones most likely to support such and the Democrats, whom want to flood with illegal immigrants=illegal voters, are the ones wanting the fewest constraints upon "voters".

                  Have you read~looked through this test given to all legal immigrants seeking citizenship and do you think you could pass such???

                  From your link, again:

                  "Contrary to Popular Belief, the Problem isn’t that Students Receive No Civics Education.

                  All 50 states require some form of instruction in civics and/or government, and nearly 90 percent of students take at least one civics class. But too often, factual book learning is not reinforced with experience-based learning opportunities like community service, guided debates, critical discussion of current events, and simulations of democratic processes. "

                  Also from your link ... this is most interesting since it is the community I live in, but is a rare exception (BTW, Lynden was settled by Dutch and remains an enclave of conservative views and positions in my county.);

                  EXCERPT:
                  " Provide formal instruction in U.S. government, history, and democracy that involves more than rote memorization of facts and procedures. Jennifer Reidel’s students at Lynden High School in Lynden, Wash., research, write and debate their own bills, study recent Supreme Court cases, and hold a mock trial. Other required activities include volunteering in the community. "
                  http://neatoday.org/2017/03/16/civic...civics%20class.

                  We need more like this in every middle and high school system in the USA, not just spotty and sporadic ones.
                  ...................
                  The problem would seen to be not enough and not enough that is effective.

                  TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                  “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                    You might want to re-read and/or understand your link better;
                    Maybe you need to understand your own statements. You specifically said it's being taught less, the link proves that statement to be false. It's being taught across the entire country.

                    We both established that most Americans don't know basic civics. Now that we've ruled out your conspiracy theory and wrong finger-pointing we can get to the actual cause.
                    "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                    - Benjamin Franklin

                    The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

                      Maybe you need to understand your own statements. You specifically said it's being taught less, the link proves that statement to be false. It's being taught across the entire country.

                      We both established that most Americans don't know basic civics. Now that we've ruled out your conspiracy theory and wrong finger-pointing we can get to the actual cause.
                      Your link did not "prove"that, just the opposite.

                      Showed how the education in certain circles continues to decline nationwide and is lest effective and instructive.

                      Fabricate whatever Spin you wish, it is still an overall decline in civics education and "UNDERSTANDING" that is in play upon our nation.

                      Your personal inability to respond correctly to the citizenship/naturalization test helps prove the point.

                      Meanwhile, there remains a more broader and objective case that is clear ...
                      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                      “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                        Your link did not "prove"that, just the opposite.

                        Showed how the education in certain circles continues to decline nationwide and is lest effective and instructive.

                        Fabricate whatever Spin you wish, it is still an overall decline in civics education and "UNDERSTANDING" that is in play upon our nation.

                        .
                        The article says it's taught at 90% of schools. Your claim that it's not taught was false, period. Backpedaling doesn't change your original statement.

                        Your personal inability to respond correctly to the citizenship/naturalization test helps prove the point.
                        Don't start lying.
                        "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Your country has become captive to big corporations and hyper wealthy individuals who have used their money to hijack political parties, tear down regulations and undermine the protections that citizens deserve, all in the pursuit of greater profit and somehow its the younger generation that's the problem. Maybe their parents should have a few refresher courses.

                          Levin's hypocrisy is hilarious. He's basically a paid shill for the Koch network. Americans for Prosperity owns his sorry ass.

                          C'mon you guys. Stop getting sucked into debating these bullshit stories. They're just distraction.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

                            The article says it's taught at 90% of schools. Your claim that it's not taught was false, period. Backpedaling doesn't change your original statement.



                            Don't start lying.
                            I didn't claim it was "NOT" taught, I claimed it was taught less and understood less than in decades past. If you can show where I said it was "not taught", quote from a post, than we will know you aren't lying.

                            One class in span of middle to high school education is not going to be enough. Your link mentioned that regarding 90%, though should be 100% and more than one class during course of school years.

                            Civics spans history, USA and individual state, as well as government and Constitution. In recent years while staffing a booth at the regional fair, we've had a wheel to be spun and where the arrow lands determines which question on civics the spinner will be asked. Lost count of how many times the first response was "What is civics?", and further exchanges with the young persons revealed admissions of how little such is taught. The questions we would select from to ask were from that naturalization test, and often even the simpler ones would stump the students.

                            Point of the OP was providing examples of how little the current generation knows or understands civics and how they have a part in such. Their recent riots and demonstrations like CHAZ/CHOP prove this.
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                            “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                              I didn't claim it was "NOT" taught, I claimed it was taught less and understood less than in decades past. If you can show where I said it was "not taught", quote from a post, than we will know you aren't lying.

                              One class in span of middle to high school education is not going to be enough. Your link mentioned that regarding 90%, though should be 100% and more than one class during course of school years.

                              Civics spans history, USA and individual state, as well as government and Constitution. In recent years while staffing a booth at the regional fair, we've had a wheel to be spun and where the arrow lands determines which question on civics the spinner will be asked. Lost count of how many times the first response was "What is civics?", and further exchanges with the young persons revealed admissions of how little such is taught. The questions we would select from to ask were from that naturalization test, and often even the simpler ones would stump the students.

                              Point of the OP was providing examples of how little the current generation knows or understands civics and how they have a part in such. Their recent riots and demonstrations like CHAZ/CHOP prove this.
                              You claimed it's taught less. So do you have any data you can reference showing that more than 90% of students took civics back in the 80s or earlier? If not, then you were wrong.

                              Interestingly, the link points out another white privilege more than anything else.

                              The point of your OP was to take a swipe at the younger generation for not knowing civics, ignoring the fact that the majority of boomers are just as ignorant on the subject, if not more so according to data trends. You then threw in baseless claims as to why, "taught less", which I debunked.
                              "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                              - Benjamin Franklin

                              The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
                                Fairly easy to tell whom are not parents nor have raised children in the USA during the past few decades, dealing with the institutions of K-12 "education" as it self-destructs here.

                                Clue, check the funding sources and demands such place .... for a start.
                                What a lame excuse. What have you done to improve the situation? Complained in internet forums? Absorbed the tenants of victimhood culture? blamed everyone else?
                                Wisdom is personal

                                Comment

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