Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The neoliberal counter-revolution

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by Judith View Post
    All the isms are ****ed up, i am tired to read left, right, conservative, liberals, marxist, maoist bs. As long as people cant start to think outside of these empty words and talk about actual policies instead, nothing will change. People talking about marxism as if it were a thing in 2020, rediculous uneducated crap. Geez, this world really lacks proper intellectuals...
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
    “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
    Present Current Events are the Future's History

    Comment


    • #17
      About those "isms", this 10 1/2 minute video may help some understand part of the issues;
      The American Form Of Government

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VogzExP3qhI

      Hosted several places on the internet ...
      TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
      “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
      Present Current Events are the Future's History

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Rutger View Post
        @ #10 :

        Wow. Pavlov strikes again. Too bad. Putting words in someone else's mouth.

        Where did he say that?
        Well this is what was posted
        Religion on the other hand tought you to live in lies. The overblown moral expectations, make every human small. In this system all you can do is fail. Shame plays a huge role in this system of lies. So in order to free yourself from mental slavery, you need to get rid of all the religious crap that has been stuffed in your heads for centuries. The only way out of this misery is education.
        Stalin would be proud
        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

        Comment


        • #19
          I'd like to get rid of collectivism, socialisms monarchism's, and blaming everything on everyone else's ancestorism ,
          Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Skoblin View Post
            I am certainly prepared to listen to whatever insights you may have about the nature of the current protest movement in the US and other Western countries.
            Change has always comes with massive economic hardship.
            Before President Obama took office we went through world economic meltdown.
            The economic meltdown in conjunction with the first black president sent people into a frenzy giving rise to the tea party. Remember all their wild, racist demonstrations?

            Now with the Pandemic we have another economic crisis and it's led to unrest and will lead to more change.

            All it sometimes take is a single act during turmoil to spark a movement. Who knew the Arab Spring would be sparked by a man in Tunisia setting himself on fire.
            Conservatives in the U.S. won't be happy until Jim Crow returns and "White Heterosexual Only" signs are legalized.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Skoblin View Post

              Well, I suppose the most pertinent question is how one proposes to get to that sort of position from where the United States is now? These proposals seem obvious and indeed rational to most Europeans and not just Europeans. But Americans are not Europeans. The US has no history of social corporatism which is really presupposed in the notion of a state-sponsored constant education scheme. The US begins with the theory of possessive individualism - a body of thought that rejected previous corporatist notions that underscore European political phenomena from the feudal state, monarchy, and the Catholic church all the way to fascism and socialism in the 20th century. The idea of the state having some role in promoting the social good is generally viewed with suspicion, if not anathema, as an unwarranted extension of state power and a threat to liberty. And if anything, the US is moving further along this path and away from what exists in Europe - as far as education is concerned. Since Pappa Bush - and regardless whether the intervening administrations have been Democratic or Republican - the tendency has been towards greater privatisation of the education system with funds that used to go to public school systems being diverted to private education corporations - many with strong political connections (this is happening as well in some parts of Europe, but not to the same degree).

              The system you are proposing would encounter two major roadblocks in the US: education as a private choice and education establishments as a source of profit. First, a state-directed system of constant education would have to organise a large public-run education apparatus which would be vigorously opposed by the existing profit-seeking establishments, many of which have strong political friends and are interwoven with other powerful financial interests (this does not include problems that may arise between federal and state competency). And a public/private partnership would be a disaster for taxpayers, as these partnerships generally leave all the decisions in the hands of private entities with the state paying the tab. Second, most Americans would reject the notion of public authorities requiring them to learn a certain set of employment skills and there would be little point in expending the funds required for such a system of constant education if people were simply to learn whatever. As for learning something or being required to learning something instead of just waiting around to find a job, I think a lot of Americans in the rust-belt and former industrial areas especially are at the point of recognising the jobs are not coming in the first place, so what is the point of extending the effort and money to learn skills for which there are no relevant employment openings and which may become redundant in the interim.

              As for isolationism, I don't think Trump represents isolationism, in fact there has been nothing isolationist really about US trade and foreign policy under Trump. It is more unilateralism than isolationism. That said, the globalists do like to present things as if countries have only two options: full globalisation or complete isolation - there is no middle ground. They used the same tactics when the issue of free trade and open markets was being debated: the only choices - the globalists said - were completely open markets or a return to the restrictive trade policies that ushered in the depression. Well, that was a false choice then and it is a false choice now. In terms of trade, the third option was managed trade which existed under the old GATT framework for most of the postwar era until the arrival of the WTO; it was a system which allowed nations to protect certain industries and protect certain workers and - most importantly - confirmed national sovereignty rather than undermining it. And the same holds true now: a nation can still engage with the world yet affirm its own national interest without necessarily being isolationist.

              But this brings us back to the current movement and the article I attached above: that this movement is neoliberal and globalist. It is certainly not left-wing. You don't hear them talking about smashing banks and going after tax-dodging corporations (some Antifa do, of course, but these are the street level radicals). The ideological leaders are too focused on identity politics, on the progressive pigeon-holing of individuals into smaller and smaller categories, emphasising their differences rather than focusing on common interests.You will not have black, white, hispanic, and asian workers and middle classes coming together to challenge corporations and the corporate-dominated political parties, when they are too busy focused on gender and race. And this is how the corporations like it, this is how the elites like it; hence the steady stream of cash and words of encouragement by various corporations, wealthy elites, and establishment politicians.
              Concerning the current movement, my assessment still stands. The system you have now only knows slaves and slaveholders, thats why the antiracist movement is so strong right now. The rich own you and your brain, your thoughts. Thats what everyone feels inside but hasnt yet understood. Thats also where all the conspiracies, fears and insecurities stem from.

              To answer to the points you brought up, what i am talking about is the utter most basic concept america and americans are all about, freedom, though my perspective is global. i talk about real freedom in the 21st century. this freedom is individual empowerment. the only way to achieve it is education. education not only opens up opportunities to work for others but also empowers you to take control of your own life.

              the general american concept of freedom is an illusion. its a hollywood fantasy represented by outlaws and people who would actually sit in an american prison for taking their personal freedom and work for in between $0.23 and $1.15 an hour (true numbers actually). wild guys living the true american dream of unlimited freedom, like mountain man, actually dont earn any money, they eat berries and hunt deer if they are hungry. your government blocks individual development in any way possible just to keep you a foolish consumer, high in debt. debt to people who actually are making american politics to their favour, the extremely rich few.

              you say the us has no history of social corporatism which is not correct. not only do you have public schools, social security systems (weak, but still), medic aid (also weak) and most of all a huge governmental apparatus thats actively and passively financing probably a huge chunk of american people (most importantly the military with all the connected companies and services). that is a pretty exhaustive form of social corporatism. again this is one of the many lies you guys live in. mountain man is a good example, he thinks defense is what governments are for, to realize that defense spending in the scale the us is doing, is actually a form of social funding and therefore your country is primarily promoting the social good (lets forget for a second that the overblown military budget has many negative implications) is out of bounds for him. the us is practicing probably more social corporatism than china.

              concerning the privatization of education, it can be restricted if the political focus is set right. the connections of money into your government are the main problem here to even find the right focus. still, in germany for example, universities are free (ok, they cost the student about 500$ each year, but this will cover complete health insurance and public transportation), still big companies work together with universities since both profit from this (research and recruiting of talent). there is a conflict of interests sometimes but in general both sides profit from this.

              concerning the other point, especially people in the rust belt and former industrial areas would profit from such a program. right now they are a joke, trailer trash, left behind people, a burden to society. education will give these people pride, something to work for, social involvement and opportunities. this is the american dream! and if they chose to learn „whatever“ its up to them. what does your whatever mean exactly anyway? no skill is useless. what i talk about here are real skills not stuff like watching cars in a parking lot.

              to me there is no doubt in bad isolationistic decisions in the trump administration. no one wants to have anything to do with the us right now, no treaties of greater impact have been accomplished in the last 4 years and mexico still hasnt payed for the dumbest idea in decades. if building a dumb wall isnt symbolic enough for you, to me it is.
              Last edited by Judith; 05 Jul 20, 17:10.

              Comment


              • #22
                I think the entire American idea that free markets exist without government may need to be re-examined.

                Corporations depend on someone to create, define, and manage the market. Things like contract dispute resolution, safety standards, environmental standards, etc.

                Corporations have proven that, left to their own devices, they will attempt to create a market that considers only their priorities. But corporations are not the only stakeholders in the market, or in society. The needs/interests of citizens, the environment, and the country must also be considered.

                Personally, I believe the past 30 or so years have shown the extremes of "free trade" and "free markets" are not satisfactory for all the stakeholders in the relationship. Time to let these ideas go. By all means, limiting the role of government to the minimum required is a good idea, but too often these days that seems to mean "no role at all" and that just isn't working.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Judith View Post
                  EDIT...
                  Concerning the US, free education and health care should really be a no brainer. We have systems like this around the world working at lower expenses already. Its a no brainer.
                  Nothing is "free". Someone, somehow will pay for it. If not now, then later due to national deficit and debt;
                  https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html


                  Originally posted by Judith View Post
                  Sadly i think that religion and maleducation is a huge roadblock in the US. People were trained to be consumers to a degree that would destroy any society. The debt spiral has turned totally out of control. If you continue to act like that, the world will drop the US once the new economic world order without the US is fully established. Your system is going to implode hard then. For you, only education and regulation can bring you back. What we saw under Trump, the isolationism, didnt work out in a globalized world of 2020. You have to play your cards smart and cautious, or you will be played.
                  With regard to education, a lot depends on quality of content and focus. Main part missing here, and in most of the world, is the value of free enterprise and small business = self employment.

                  We saw faulty education in traincar loads in Seattle with CHAZ/CHOP/CHAOS, as well as in other cities. The financial resources spent by the "protestors" to get there, set up, and riot/loot, etc. would have been far better spent and invested in trying to create more businesses and the jobs that come from them.

                  Socialism/communism sees one pie of finite size and keeps trying to re-slice it "fairly". Capitalism/free enterprise sees a need to make more pie.

                  Don't confuse a return to USA priorities first, over accommodating other nations as isolationism. USA is still on this planet and have an economy interwoven with others.

                  Originally posted by Judith View Post
                  Religion on the other hand tought you to live in lies. The overblown moral expectations, make every human small. In this system all you can do is fail. Shame plays a huge role in this system of lies. So in order to free yourself from mental slavery, you need to get rid of all the religious crap that has been stuffed in your heads for centuries. The only way out of this misery is education.
                  Please, please, please peddle this message to the Dar al-Islam and the Islamic Jihadists whom are even more effective on the slavery and misery through religion gig.

                  Originally posted by Judith View Post
                  So coupling the educational system, aimed at people getting free and independent, to the social system would be the most important step in how to change for a solid future.

                  The system you have now only knows slaves and slaveholders, thats why the antiracist movement is so strong right now. The rich own you and your brain, your thoughts. Thats what everyone feels inside but hasnt yet understood. Thats also where all the conspiracies, fears and insecurities stem from. The only answer? Correct, education. Make strong people not imbeciles.
                  ​​
                  I understand that religious people might feel uncomfortable with what i say, because church has such a high social function in american society, but to free yourself from living in constant lies, you have to free yourself from systematic suppression of your personality, sorry.

                  ​​​
                  That "slaves and slaveholders' garbage actually applies more in other parts of the world and given the deficit and debt load among European nations versus the USA, would seem applies more over there.

                  One area 'education" has fallen short on is basic economics and wealth creation, the need to encourage more free enterprise and entrepreneurship. Not just here in the USA, but especially more so in the rest of the world.

                  TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
                  “War is merely the continuation of politics by other means” - von Clausewitz
                  Present Current Events are the Future's History

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                    Nothing is "free". Someone, somehow will pay for it. If not now, then later due to national deficit and debt;
                    https://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html




                    With regard to education, a lot depends on quality of content and focus. Main part missing here, and in most of the world, is the value of free enterprise and small business = self employment.

                    We saw faulty education in traincar loads in Seattle with CHAZ/CHOP/CHAOS, as well as in other cities. The financial resources spent by the "protestors" to get there, set up, and riot/loot, etc. would have been far better spent and invested in trying to create more businesses and the jobs that come from them.

                    Socialism/communism sees one pie of finite size and keeps trying to re-slice it "fairly". Capitalism/free enterprise sees a need to make more pie.

                    Don't confuse a return to USA priorities first, over accommodating other nations as isolationism. USA is still on this planet and have an economy interwoven with others.



                    Please, please, please peddle this message to the Dar al-Islam and the Islamic Jihadists whom are even more effective on the slavery and misery through religion gig.



                    That "slaves and slaveholders' garbage actually applies more in other parts of the world and given the deficit and debt load among European nations versus the USA, would seem applies more over there.

                    One area 'education" has fallen short on is basic economics and wealth creation, the need to encourage more free enterprise and entrepreneurship. Not just here in the USA, but especially more so in the rest of the world.
                    Of course its not "free", but if you are poor, it is. Germany spent 100 billion USD last year for the complete educational program, thats all kind of schools, universities and additional educational efforts. Thats 100 billion USD spent to educate and empowering people while also putting money into the pockets of teachers, workers and companies working on education related stuff. Its a huge win-win situation. Again if you are poor it is completely free for you. If you are rich or middleclass or whatever, you will pay about 500 USD to attend university per year, health care and public transport are completely covered. Again if you come from a poor family it is free. 100 billion USD are 3% of Germanys GDP (The US spends 5% btw) . And all this money goes straight into peoples pockets! This is not socialism, this is smart investment.

                    My words about religion concerns all religions the same. Would i propose banning religions? Certainly not. But i would stop financial support immediately. If believers keep their boat afloat i wouldnt mind, its their choice.

                    About america first, its always xyz country first. That is the nature of a government. But as Europe learned its lesson, you are stronger working with strong partners instead of wasting energy fighting them. If you havnt realized yet that Trump administration is hurting the interests of the US, nothing i can say will change your mind.
                    The same can be applied to what i said about slaves and slaveholders. Maybe the term slave is not correct but anyway, either you get that few people design a political structure that benefits them first or you dont. You have 0 power to lobby your agenda. If you are one of the 1% you can have an army of lawyers and lobbyists changing the rules to favour your interests. This has to stop, thats all i am saying.
                    And finally empowering people through education on an individual level is pure entrepeneurship. If you have a certain skillset you can start your own business if you want to, economics would certainly something you can learn if you are interested in. Just imagine you wouldnt have to pay for evening courses on small business economics and there would be no barriers for you to learn anything you always wanted to.
                    Generally its not about redistributing a pie, but investing in a stronger, more flexible and resilient society.
                    Last edited by Judith; 06 Jul 20, 04:20.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by G David Bock View Post



                      There was a very famous athlete who was named after an abolitionist. He changed his name to have the names of not one but two slavers as his first and last name.

                      He has several statues around the U.S.

                      This athlete is one of the most famous in history.

                      His name? muhammad ali. Since he named himself after two slavers should his statues be torn down?
                      "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
                      Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        This excerpt you took out, no offense, is really a bunch of gobbylgook.

                        The root of the right wing (alt right and "normal" conservatives) is really quite simple:

                        They want good, masculine and traditional leadership, but are bamboozled by ideology and an army of selfish frauds/attention seekers/mentally ill people/con-artists just like the con artist in chief who rose up to take advantage of their gullibility and stupidity.

                        There is no standardized narrative- the narrative is constantly changing, like a paranoid lunatic. It is also somewhat directionless, it's goal is only to demonize all those who do not think like they do.

                        They are now a form of large scale, brain-dead hivemind, like some hard-core left wingers.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post



                          There was a very famous athlete who was named after an abolitionist. He changed his name to have the names of not one but two slavers as his first and last name.

                          He has several statues around the U.S.

                          This athlete is one of the most famous in history.

                          His name? muhammad ali. Since he named himself after two slavers should his statues be torn down?
                          Good one. You made me look him up.

                          Cassius Marcellus Clay (/ˈkęʃəs ˌmɑːrˈsɛləs/; October 19, 1810 – July 22, 1903), nicknamed the "Lion of White Hall", was a Kentucky planter, politician, and emancipationist who worked for the abolition of slavery. He freed the slaves that were handed down as his inheritance from his father. Those freed slaves were allowed to stay and were paid a wage. He was a founding member of the Republican Party in Kentucky, and was appointed by President Abraham Lincoln as the United States minister to Russia. Clay is credited with gaining Russian support for the Union during the American Civil War.

                          Cassius Marcellus Clay
                          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                            Well this is what was posted
                            Religion on the other hand tought you to live in lies. The overblown moral expectations, make every human small. In this system all you can do is fail. Shame plays a huge role in this system of lies. So in order to free yourself from mental slavery, you need to get rid of all the religious crap that has been stuffed in your heads for centuries. The only way out of this misery is education.
                            Stalin would be proud
                            The only thing I see is (1) an aversity against religion, and (2) a plea for education.
                            Nowhere did he call for your claimed "ban on religion" and "doing away with private property", you simply made it up.
                            The Stalin remark…..? Well, gee, that works.


                            "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                              The only thing I see is (1) an aversity against religion, and (2) a plea for education.
                              Nowhere did he call for your claimed "ban on religion" and "doing away with private property", you simply made it up.
                              The Stalin remark…..? Well, gee, that works.

                              Don't care,
                              Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                                Don't care,
                                Yeah Rutger. So ner!
                                Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                                That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                                Comment

                                Latest Topics

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X