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Colin Kaepernick denounces 4th of July

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  • #61
    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

    You're not going to find many black people who feel their life doesn't matter.
    Except when it involves abortion, then you will find that dems don't think life matters.

    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Nichols View Post

      Except when it involves abortion, then you will find that dems don't think life matters.
      Who said anything about dems?
      "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
      - Benjamin Franklin

      The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

        you assume, incorrectly, that all blacks in colonial America was a slave. Bogus history. Anti slave laws had been passed in northern colonies, in New York, Albany, black had had the right to own property and attend school and own businesses as early as 1760,. In New Amsterdam (pre British New York) black slaves since 1660 had been allowed to buy their freedom and had always been allowed to worship anywhere they desired. By the way, the whites in New Amsterdam were mostly indentured to the Manor owners.
        I would suggest you study the opening of the Ohio Valley and the fact that the evil white rulers including Washington supported the opening of that vast territory which included Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan under the condition that those areas be free of slavery.
        During Thomas Jefferson tenure as president he tried to rescind the anti slavery rule and lost that proposal.
        It would also come as a surprise to you that freed slaves also owned slaves. One of the largest plantations in Louisiana was owned by a freed slave who owned more than a 1,000 slaves himself.
        you assume, incorrectly, that all blacks in colonial America was a slave:
        Sorry mate: here are the cold hard data. No assumption at all. Neither is it bogus history. Denial of facts.
        percentage slaves by R. Bezoen, on Flickr

        It would also come as a surprise to you that freed slaves also owned slaves. One of the largest plantations in Louisiana was owned by a freed slave who owned more than a 1,000 slaves himself.
        Sorry, exactly the type of deflection expected. Typical apologism. "there were black owners, so that makes up for the rest".
        And yes I knew about that so it is great to see what I expected.
        Dig just one step deeper and find the numbers on black owners of black slaves, expecially the ratio. I did because I knew you would come up with that.


        Anti slave laws had been passed in northern colonies, in New York, Albany, black had had the right to own property and attend school and own businesses as early as 1760,. In New Amsterdam (pre British New York) black slaves since 1660 had been allowed to buy their freedom and had always been allowed to worship anywhere they desired. By the way, the whites in New Amsterdam were mostly indentured to the Manor owners.
        I would suggest you study the opening of the Ohio Valley and the fact that the evil white rulers including Washington supported the opening of that vast territory which included Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, and Michigan under the condition that those areas be free of slavery.
        During Thomas Jefferson tenure as president he tried to rescind the anti slavery rule and lost that proposal.
        Deflection. Again.
        In what way does that have to do with the average 86% of all blacks being enslaved during the first 90 years after independence?

        Now, once again, and just please answer the question:
        What good was the independence for the blacks, knowing that on average 86% of all blacks (fact) were slaves during the 90 years after the independence?
        Last edited by Rutger; 06 Jul 20, 03:48.
        "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Nichols View Post
          Ok. So that did take 90 years and the abolition of slavery. And it clearly was a celebration of abolition of slavery, not a celebration of the independence war.

          Before the Civil War, white Americans from every corner of the country had annually marked the Fourth with feasts, parades, and copious quantities of alcohol. A European visitor observed that it was “almost the only holy-day kept in America.” Black Americans demonstrated considerably less enthusiasm. And those who did observe the holiday preferred—like Douglass—to do so on July 5 to better accentuate the difference between the high promises of the Fourth and the low realities of life for African Americans, while also avoiding confrontations with drunken white revelers.
          "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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          • #65
            Ah, right. As for blacks owning slaves. It also seems to make up for whites owning slaves.

            99.5% of all slaves were held by white owners, 0.5% by black owners. Pretty much says it all. "Blacks did it too". Right.

            Some elaboration:

            The most solid data we found was published in an article in the Root by Henry Louis Gates Jr., a Harvard University historian. Gates cited research by Carter G. Woodson, an African-American historian who died in 1950. He found that in 1830, a total of "3,776 free Negroes owned 12,907 slaves."

            With three more decades of population growth, it’s plausible that the number of black-owned slaves could have grown to 20,000 by 1860, historians told us.

            "I'd imagine that the (20,000 figure) quoted in the meme is probably not that far off from being true," said Junius Rodriguez, a Eureka College historian and author of Slavery in the United States: A Social, Political, and Historical Encyclopedia.

            But the 20,000 number is not necessarily as eye-popping as the meme makes it out to be.

            For starters, even if the number is accurate, it would still account for just a tiny percentage of all slaves held in the United States in 1860 -- specifically, one half of 1 percent.

            "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

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            • #66
              Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
              So much for free speech. Lick my boots or leave.

              I don't know if admire is the right word, but I certainly respect Kap for speaking the truth.
              I've heard many say they respect and admire Kaepernick for having the balls to do what he's been doing, inspite of the backlash.


              "Never argue with an idiot. They'll just drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience" George Carlin

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                I'm not really sure about no one being guilt free. Both sides of my family immigrated between 1890 and 1905.

                My wife and oldest daughter immigrated in 1996.

                Not sure how they can or should be held to answer for crimes of the past.
                Hi Nichols

                In this instance I meant as a racial group and (not as a individual though that can and will apply to some), we're all going to have to re-visit our history. Every Racial group has racists elements within. Where, when and how we draw that historical line will be seen from many viewpoints and in itself it'll cause anger etc.

                Be well

                Andy H
                "You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." Churchill

                "I'm no reactionary.Christ on the Mountain! I'm as idealistic as Hell" Eisenhower

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Reimnitz View Post

                  I've heard many say they respect and admire Kaepernick for having the balls to do what he's been doing, inspite of the backlash.

                  Perhaps.
                  But at the time he started his protest, he was a 2nd string QB without much of a chance of being a 1st string QB anymore as I understand it.
                  He suffered no real backlash as he was largely celebrated for his protest. Our media doesn’t condemn people who engage in anti-American protests, they make them celebrities.
                  He might have some backlash because no other team would take a chance on him because he had become toxic. But we will never know if there would have been a market for him otherwise.
                  Then he had to suffer the indignity of being given a $25 million contract from Nike. If that is backlash, sign me up.

                  I would say he has done far better than any other protestor.
                  I have always questioned whether his. protests were designed to draw attention to himself rather than the issue.
                  As I noted earlier I find it a bit hypocritical that he could go to work for a company that has used (and might still use) slave labor while condemning the US for slavery.
                  If he were serious about taking a stand to protect black lives, where are the condemnations of black gang violence?
                  How can he ignore the hundreds or thousands shot each year by gangs while focusing on the few dozen victimized by the police? They are closely related issues so his selective outrage is curious.
                  Of course, there might be some actual backlash were he to condemn black Gang culture.

                  Look at the backlash against Bill Cosby when he spoke against black culture. (No one knew of his crimes at that point and he still was respected)
                  Last edited by Cambronnne; 06 Jul 20, 06:23.
                  Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                  Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Andy H View Post

                    Hi Nichols

                    In this instance I meant as a racial group and (not as a individual though that can and will apply to some), we're all going to have to re-visit our history. Every Racial group has racists elements within. Where, when and how we draw that historical line will be seen from many viewpoints and in itself it'll cause anger etc.

                    Be well

                    Andy H
                    How do you hold members of any racial group responsible for racist acts committed by long dead members of that race without engaging in obvious racism?
                    The concept of collective guilt based solely on race is inherently racist.

                    The only connection modern whites have with long dead, white slave owners is their race.
                    The Democratic Party supported racism, endorsed it and even started a civil war to preserve it.When they lost, they attempted to preserve some aspects of slavery via “Jim Crow” laws.
                    The entity that is the Democratic Party still exists and I have yet to hear any condemnation of the that Party for its actual acts to fight for slavery.

                    How can the left demand that I be punished for acts I could not have engaged In while ignoring the fact that the Democratic Party actually did endorse and protect slavery?
                    Why should I take the complaints of such hypocrites seriously?

                    They should clean their own house before they condemn mine.

                    Unless, of course, it is actually just about politics rather than race. In which case the dems are Just using blacks again.
                    Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                    Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                      Ok. So that did take 90 years and the abolition of slavery. And it clearly was a celebration of abolition of slavery, not a celebration of the independence war.
                      The 4th of July was never a celebration "of the independence war," where did you get that from?

                      The American Revolutionary War was from Apr 19, 1775 to Sep 3, 1783.
                      "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Andy H View Post

                        Hi Nichols

                        In this instance I meant as a racial group and (not as a individual though that can and will apply to some), we're all going to have to re-visit our history. Every Racial group has racists elements within. Where, when and how we draw that historical line will be seen from many viewpoints and in itself it'll cause anger etc.

                        Be well

                        Andy H
                        An entire racial group being punished for the sins of a few? That makes absolutely no sense.

                        Should the descendants of whites that fought and died in the fight against slavery also be punished?

                        The democrat party fought for slavery, birthed the KKK and Jim Crowe laws. If you want to punish someone, that is the organization directly tied with the racial injustices in this country.
                        "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                          An entire racial group being punished for the sins of a few? That makes absolutely no sense.

                          Should the descendants of whites that fought and died in the fight against slavery also be punished?.
                          No, should Star Wars Stormtroopers have retirement benefits?

                          Since imaginary scenarios seems to be what you a talking about now......

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Jutland View Post

                            No, should Star Wars Stormtroopers have retirement benefits?

                            Since imaginary scenarios seems to be what you a talking about now......
                            I'm discussing historical fact, you are bringing Hollywood fiction into the discussion.
                            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                              I'm discussing historical fact, you are bringing Hollywood fiction into the discussion.
                              Nah your using hysterical hyperbole.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Jutland View Post

                                Nah your using hysterical hyperbole.
                                Historical facts can only be seen as hysterical hyperbole by someone that is uncomfortable with history or doesn't know the history of what is being discussed.

                                Try again, you have my permission.
                                "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                                Comment

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