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  • #46
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

    I would feel a lot better about it if 1,4 billion dollars in covid19 relief checks weren't mailed to dead people in the last three months.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stimu...b63220fcca2972
    The check can't be cashed, so is it lost?

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Massena View Post

      I believe that Benjamin Franklin, who didn't support slavery at all, said it correctly when he called us the American race. That's how I view it, no matter your ethnicity or skin color.

      The only person who can strip you of your personal identity is you. By what you have written and posted above, you appear to be as much a divider as Trump is.
      Why does everyone have to be the same race in order to not be divided?

      I don't view race as a point of division, why do you?

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

        Nothing wrong with the belief, I just don't agree with it. The world would be a boring place if everyone was the same. I value diversity. Not everyone else has to, there's nothing wrong with disagreeing.

        No, I was proven right on the anthem. If the song wasn't racist then it wouldn't need to have a verse removed.
        The only way for you to be proven right is to:
        1) Prove the line "hireling or the slave" refers to black slaves . You haven't and I doubt you can, because the word "hireling" gives the intended context. I am hoping that you are aware that the word "slave" isn't unique to blacks.
        The context suggests to me that it is referring to mercenaries or people forced to fight for the British
        2)Establish that the verse was removed because it referred to black slaves. You haven't. You are aware that people of all races have been enslaved by people of all other races aren't you?.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

          Why does everyone have to be the same race in order to not be divided?

          I don't view race as a point of division, why do you?
          Etched into our DNA is the need to regard everyone not part of our specific group as an enemy until proven otherwise. Sadly, evolution did not overcome this.
          Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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          • #50
            Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

            The check can't be cashed, so is it lost?
            The democrats already have a few million dead people voting, lets not give them more incentive.
            Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

              Why does everyone have to be the same race in order to not be divided?

              I don't view race as a point of division, why do you?
              Fa be from me to explain Massena, but what this means is simply our devotion to the nation should be more important than the color of our skin or the nation of our origin or that of our ancestors.
              I am a descendant of Dutch, English, Irish, Eastern European and Spanish. I study my ancestors stories, but I don't identify as "White American", or "Dutch, English, Irish, Eastern European or Spanish."
              I am solely an American.
              Perhaps that is why even though Massena and I differ on many topics, we agree on this.
              I can't speak for him or anyone else, but we are more divided today not because there are minorities, but because so many people identify as a member of some group that has been grievously wronged by "White America" or America in general.
              As long as we keep self segregating ourselves by color, sexual preference, gender identity or some other factor we will not be united.
              Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                Fa be from me to explain Massena, but what this means is simply our devotion to the nation should be more important than the color of our skin or the nation of our origin or that of our ancestors.
                I am a descendant of Dutch, English, Irish, Eastern European and Spanish. I study my ancestors stories, but I don't identify as "White American", or "Dutch, English, Irish, Eastern European or Spanish."
                I am solely an American.
                Perhaps that is why even though Massena and I differ on many topics, we agree on this.
                I can't speak for him or anyone else, but we are more divided today not because there are minorities, but because so many people identify as a member of some group that has been grievously wronged by "White America" or America in general.
                As long as we keep self segregating ourselves by color, sexual preference, gender identity or some other factor we will not be united.
                I agree as well that nationality should come before race, but not in detriment of race. If whites were being treated the same way blacks are, you would not ignore those issues. You don't as is. Yet you only see this 'one race' argument come up as a way of silencing blacks. Never the other way around.

                If you want less division then create a country that's welcoming of all races and creeds.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  Etched into our DNA is the need to regard everyone not part of our specific group as an enemy until proven otherwise. Sadly, evolution did not overcome this.
                  However, like so many of the "just so" stories put forward in the name of evolutionary psychology, these ideas are extremely dubious. First of all, anthropologists who have studied contemporary hunter-gatherer tribes (who follow the same lifestyle as prehistoric human beings and can therefore be seen as representative of our species’ ancient past) report that they do not generally behave with this kind of hostility towards other groups. They don’t tend to see other tribes in their vicinity as competitors for the same food sources and try to subjugate them or restrict their access to resources. Contemporary hunter-gatherer groups are fairly fluid, with changing membership. Different groups interact with each other a lot, regularly visiting each other, making marriage alliances, and sometimes switching members. This is not the kind of behavior that we would associate with racism. (2)
                  https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...chology-racism

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

                    I agree as well that nationality should come before race, but not in detriment of race. If whites were being treated the same way blacks are, you would not ignore those issues. You don't as is. Yet you only see this 'one race' argument come up as a way of silencing blacks. Never the other way around.

                    If you want less division then create a country that's welcoming of all races and creeds.
                    Where did in my post did i say anything about silencing anyone?
                    I don't speak for others, please don't speak for me.
                    my point isn't that no one has a grievance, my point is it's time to stop referring to ourselves as Mexican American, or White American, or African American, or Chinese American, hyphenated this and that, Gay American, Trans American
                    those hyphenated labels separate us.
                    Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                      Where did in my post did i say anything about silencing anyone?
                      I don't speak for others, please don't speak for me.
                      my point isn't that no one has a grievance, my point is it's time to stop referring to ourselves as Mexican American, or White American, or African American, or Chinese American, hyphenated this and that, Gay American, Trans American
                      those hyphenated labels separate us.
                      I'm telling you what it infers when people bring up the "American race" argument only when someone of color is discussing racial issues.

                      I also identify as American, it is after all factually accurate. We all have a nationality and a race. All races can identify as American. All races can be unified under a single banner if so desired. However, unification won't be accomplished by something as trivial as semantics. Names don't take down barriers or diminish discrimination, bias, hate etc.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post

                        I'm telling you what it infers when people bring up the "American race" argument only when someone of color is discussing racial issues.

                        I also identify as American, it is after all factually accurate. We all have a nationality and a race. All races can identify as American. All races can be unified under a single banner if so desired. However, unification won't be accomplished by something as trivial as semantics. Names don't take down barriers or diminish discrimination, bias, hate etc.
                        I believe it would be better if we considered ourselves collectively as nationality not a race. And of course, I consider you an American. Why wouldn't I?
                        Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                          No, I was proven right on the anthem. If the song wasn't racist then it wouldn't need to have a verse removed.
                          Obviously the verse wasn't removed or we wouldn't be talking about it.

                          What was racist about the verse?

                          Address post 30 and the meaning of 'hireling and slave'
                          "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                            Obviously the verse wasn't removed or we wouldn't be talking about it.

                            What was racist about the verse?

                            Address post 30 and the meaning of 'hireling and slave'
                            Our numbers are different because I have certain people blocked. You're blocked as well, but for some reason your posts still show anyway. But I don't know what post you're referring to exactly because of that.

                            To know what's racist about the verse, you need to know Key's history to find out who he was referring to.

                            To understand the full “Star-Spangled Banner” story, you have to understand the author. Key was an aristocrat and city prosecutor in Washington, D.C. He was, like most enlightened men at the time, not against slavery; he just thought that since blacks were mentally inferior, masters should treat them with more Christian kindness. He supported sending free blacks (not slaves) back to Africa and, with a few exceptions, was about as pro-slavery, anti-black and anti-abolitionist as you could get at the time.

                            Of particular note was Key’s opposition to the idea of the Colonial Marines. The Marines were a battalion of runaway slaves who joined with the British Royal Army in exchange for their freedom. The Marines were not only a terrifying example of what slaves would do if given the chance, but also a repudiation of the white superiority that men like Key were so invested in.

                            All of these ideas and concepts came together around Aug. 24, 1814, at the Battle of Bladensburg, where Key, who was serving as a lieutenant at the time, ran into a battalion of Colonial Marines. His troops were taken to the woodshed by the very black folks he disdained, and he fled back to his home in Georgetown to lick his wounds. The British troops, emboldened by their victory in Bladensburg, then marched into Washington, D.C., burning the Library of Congress, the Capitol Building and the White House. You can imagine that Key was very much in his feelings seeing black soldiers trampling on the city he so desperately loved.

                            A few weeks later, in September of 1815, far from being a captive, Key was on a British boat begging for the release of one of his friends, a doctor named William Beanes. Key was on the boat waiting to see if the British would release his friend when he observed the bloody battle of Fort McHenry in Baltimore on Sept. 13, 1814. America lost the battle but managed to inflict heavy casualties on the British in the process. This inspired Key to write “The Star-Spangled Banner” right then and there, but no one remembers that he wrote a full third stanza decrying the former slaves who were now working for the British army:

                            In other words, Key was saying that the blood of all the former slaves and “hirelings” on the battlefield will wash away the pollution of the British invaders. With Key still bitter that some black soldiers got the best of him a few weeks earlier, “The Star-Spangled Banner” is as much a patriotic song as it is a diss track to black people who had the audacity to fight for their freedom. Perhaps that’s why it took almost 100 years for the song to become the national anthem.

                            To hear more of the story, there is an excellent short documentary about the history of “The Star-Spangled Banner” by some students at Morgan State University. In the meantime, it might be a good idea to switch up your Fourth of July patriotic playlist.
                            https://www.theroot.com/star-spangle...the-1790855893



                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                              To know what's racist about the verse, you need to know Key's history
                              If you know how 'hireling and slave' was used in 1814, you would know that it wasn't racist. He was referring to the British troops that were participating in the bombardment.


                              "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                                If you know how 'hireling and slave' was used in 1814, you would know that it wasn't racist. He was referring to the British troops that were participating in the bombardment.

                                I'm not going to sit here and argue whether or not slavery was racist in 1814. The context for the song was provided, if you refuse to acknowledge the history of Key's and how that played into the song, then that's your problem, I won't waste time talking to a brick wall.

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