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  • Accidental bodycam recording - from Miami Herald

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...243932047.html

    First - chatting only began AFTER the police officers (SWAT) thought that their conversation was not being recorded. Second - they use language and style of discussion befitting battlefield - and i mean the computer game.
    A few minutes later, another officer, Jamie Chatman,came up to Baro behind the police line and asked if his body camera was off. Baro replied — incorrectly — that his camera was in “stand-by” mode and not recording. The two officers then began laughing and joking about the people they had shot with rubber bullets.

    “Did you see me f**k up those motherf****rs?” one of the officers said.

    “I got the one f***er,” the other replied amid laughter
    That behavior is not befitting of a law enforcement force nominally with its description being 'to protect and serve'. It might be fitting to a militia or occupying rabble. So where exactly are the good cops hiding? Since so many even here claim that such behavior was only rare and would be squashed by the good cops. So where were they? Under a damp rock? And explanation is pure nonsense from the police chief - 'the chaos of a developing situation', even he is clearly using language that is for more befitting an actual battlefield then even a riot.

    As several there are commenting...
    George Kirkham, a former police officer and professor emeritus at Florida State University, condemned the behavior captured on the footage.
    “This is serious misconduct. This is people with badges acting like thugs,” Kirkham said. “It’s like a cancer. If you let it go, it will spread.”
    ...
    The comment stuck out to Robert Drago, a retired lieutenant colonel at the Broward Sheriff’s Office, who reviewed the footage.
    “If you’re not seeing a threat, why are you asking for a threat?” Drago said. “That would almost lead you to believe that they were indiscriminately firing.”
    ...
    “I understand what it’s like to have that adrenaline. I’ve been in a riot situation,” Kirkham said. “But that does not excuse that kind of verbiage and behavior. It suggests that the police think they can do whatever they want and get away with it.”
    ...
    Drago also criticized the behavior of Chatman, the officer who asked Baro if his body camera was off.
    “It shows intent and then he makes inappropriate, unprofessional statements,” said Drago. “It’s not a carnival. This isn’t hit-three-times-and-get-a-stuffed-animal. It doesn’t seem like these officers had public safety in mind at all.”
    And since this 'gem' was only revealed by accident as the officer was incompetent enough to fail in destroying the evidence - just how many more cases similar to this are there? You would have be extraordinarily naive to image this to have been an isolated incident. So is it any surprise after these incidents that there are calls for defunding or similar actions? I wonder if they might be connected... Regardless, the biggest irony of all is quite apparent that the only party the LEOs can blame for this are they themselves.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

  • #2
    There's way too many ex-military in law enforcement in the US. Having military experience should be seen as a negative if someone is trying to get into that sector.
    Even the fact that you guys call it Law Enforcement tells me there's an attitudinal problem, "To protect and to Serve" is great, as long as there's an "everyone equally" at the end.
    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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    • #3
      Here in the ages past it used to be so that you almost had to have a military training, and more accurately military police (MP) training to have decent shot of getting a place in the police training but it has since been revised quite a bit so that currently you get exactly and precisely nothing at all counted in favor from military or MP background when applying to the police training.
      It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

      Comment


      • #4
        What’s the context of the video. Were the police having Molotov cocktails thrown at them or being attacked in any way.

        The protesters are in the wrong btw representing a tiny fraction of all Americans. And they are influenced by foreign agents.
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
          There's way too many ex-military in law enforcement in the US. Having military experience should be seen as a negative if someone is trying to get into that sector.


          Even the fact that you guys call it Law Enforcement tells me there's an attitudinal problem, \
          Why do you see vets as a problem? Some one who has served a full length of service and gotten a honorable discharge has proven he has some level of discipline.

          Why is the term "Law Enforcement" a problem?
          "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Beatrice Evelyn Hall
          Updated for the 21st century... except if you are criticizing islam, that scares the $hii+e out of me!

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          • #6
            Unless you aim to make your police force act like an occupying army on domestic soil you need very different qualities for those roles. Military disciple and behavior are very different from what police officer should have. That being said in my opinion being a veteran and a police is not a bad thing or wrong if it position as police officer is gained on its own merits and not on basis of having served in the military. It may become a problem however if so many of the police officers are ex-military as it may cause the military style behavior and attitudes permeate the policing (which is what some say is exactly what we are now seeing). It may start to blur the line as to where police and policing ends and where the military begins which is a very dangerous thing.
            It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion, it is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed. The hands acquire shaking, the shaking becomes a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
              The protesters are in the wrong btw representing a tiny fraction of all Americans. And they are influenced by foreign agents.
              Haven't seen you post nil evidence on the foreign agent claim, despite having asked several times.
              So, once again, what evidence do you have to show on that?
              Reports from intelligence agencies?
              Reports from trustworthy news agencies?



              "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by E.D. Morel View Post
                There's way too many ex-military in law enforcement in the US. Having military experience should be seen as a negative if someone is trying to get into that sector.
                Even the fact that you guys call it Law Enforcement tells me there's an attitudinal problem, "To protect and to Serve" is great, as long as there's an "everyone equally" at the end.
                Maybe I'm wrong, but I would like to think it's the other way around. People who have served in the military are more likely to be disciplined and understand the importance of unity and respect. They're also going to be well trained in self defense (thus less need for lethal force). Maybe most important, they're not going to be fearful of every encounter due to their background and confidence in their selves.

                Opposed to a guy being thrown into the fire with no relevant experience, or possibly little to no life experience at all. I imagine a lot of these bad cops would not have cut it in the military for one reason or another. We also can't discount MOS' who have primarily been involved in humanitarian and 'hearts and minds' efforts.

                But again, maybe I'm completely wrong. It would be interesting to see exactly how many of these abusive cops served.
                "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
                - Benjamin Franklin

                The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

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                • #9
                  I used to work with three blokes all of who had over 25 years service in the Royal Navy, reaching the rank of Petty Occicer, Chief Petty Officer and Warrant Officer.
                  You'd think their experience, training and discipline would make them perfect shift team leaders...
                  and you'd be wrong!
                  These three were far and away the most incompetent man managers I've ever met. Almost everyone that had the misfortune to come across them learned the exact meaning of 'petty occifer'!
                  The image of these three idiots as policemen makes my toes curl.


                  The long toll of the brave
                  Is not lost in darkness
                  Over the fruitful earth
                  And athwart the seas
                  Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                  Unquenchable forever.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post

                    Why do you see vets as a problem? Some one who has served a full length of service and gotten a honorable discharge has proven he has some level of discipline.

                    Why is the term "Law Enforcement" a problem?
                    Soldiers are trained to see the people who are not in the same uniform as them as the enemy. The militarisation of police departments in the US is a sign that they have the wrong mindset. The police are there as a deterrent to make criminals think that they will be caught if they commit a crime, not that they will be shot while committing it. Their job is crime detection, mediation, de-escalation, examining crime scenes, telling families that their loved one has been killed in a car crash. They are often the first contact with people who have fallen through societies social safety net.

                    There was a time when Cops were proud of never having used their firearm in service. The mindset of a soldier is completely different from what the mindset of a Cop should be. I get that both need discipline but the soldier needs to be deprogrammed before they can protect and serve.
                    "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                    validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                    "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 17thfabn View Post
                      Why is the term "Law Enforcement" a problem?
                      Law enforcement is a confrontational term. It is also only a part of what "Policing" is. The police are not there to impose the law on the public but rather police by the consent of the majority. They are instruments of the people, not of the State. They are civilians, not soldiers.

                      I've been stopped by the police while driving in Ireland plenty of times. They have breathalysed me and checked to see of my car is taxed and insured. I've also got a few speeding fines. They would never bother stopping someone with a cracked light and if they did stop someone with a broken light it would just be to tell them to get it fixed. I don't fear the police. I respect them but I don't fear them.
                      One in three of them is armed but they rarely shoot anyone and almost never shoot someone who isn't shooting at them.In the last 20 years I think they have shot 8 people.

                      This gives a better description of the difference between Law Enforcement and Policing than I could;

                      Concept of Law Enforcement


                      At its core, the concept of law enforcement consists of just that: enforcing laws. In its purest form, law enforcement requires an unwavering adherence to rules and procedures. It involves a focus on the letter of the law rather than the spirit of the law. Citations are issued, arrests are made, and force is employed with little regard for the reason or meaning behind a particular law or policy.

                      Law enforcement can be a very effective way to maintain public order and punish crime inasmuch as it is focused on requiring the members of a community or society to comply with the law or face the consequences. The problem of law enforcement as the sole response to crime, however, is that it is singular in its approach, responding to effects without consideration for causes.

                      Concept of Policing


                      The term policing has come to mean an approach to fighting crime through community service and problem solving. It requires a holistic approach to dealing with crime, taking into account the problems that plague a community and working with the people within that community to solve them.

                      Policing requires cooperation from residents, business owners, and leaders who participate in the process of reducing crime and improving quality of life. While this idea of community policing may sound revolutionary, it actually dates back to the earliest days of the modern police force. The concept is best articulated in Sir Robert Peel's nine principles of policing.

                      Difference Between Law Enforcement and Policing


                      While there may be some overlap between these two concepts, the truth is that the differences run deep. Whereas law enforcement implies compulsory compliance, policing suggests voluntary adherence. Where law enforcement uses the rule of law and the threat of punishment to enforce obedience, policing is intended to deal with behaviors through community relationships and addressing root causes.

                      In a sense, law enforcement is but one component of policing—one of many tools in the toolbox available to police officers and law enforcement agencies.



                      "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                      validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                      "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Rutger View Post

                        Haven't seen you post nil evidence on the foreign agent claim, despite having asked several times.
                        So, once again, what evidence do you have to show on that?
                        Reports from intelligence agencies?
                        Reports from trustworthy news agencies?


                        The Ex mayor of New Orleans suggested this was something to watch out for.

                        There is circumstantial evidence to suggest it...Russian television news outlets are all over the protest. But what kind of Americans would believe this country has systemic racism and what kind of Americans would destroy police stations, attack police , attack fellow Americans with different political view points, Take down statues in our country which honor great men and women of history.


                        All of these signs point to foreign agents who could look and talk like Americans being involved in influencing groups like black lives matters and their supporters.

                        Just a few years back the FBI uncovered ten Russian foreign agents who were up to no good and who walked and talked like every day American. They were sent to prison but were traded with four Americans in jail in Russia.

                        Iran, North Korea, the Taliban or AQ could easily be involved in influencing the black lives matters protest doing anything they can to divide Americans.
                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Law enforcement, isn't that what the courts, jury and judge are for? I thought the copper's job was to uphold the law and bring the baddies to justice, not execute 'em in the street?

                          The long toll of the brave
                          Is not lost in darkness
                          Over the fruitful earth
                          And athwart the seas
                          Hath passed the light of noble deeds
                          Unquenchable forever.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                            The Ex mayor of New Orleans suggested this was something to watch out for.

                            There is circumstantial evidence to suggest it...Russian television news outlets are all over the protest. But what kind of Americans would believe this country has systemic racism and what kind of Americans would destroy police stations, attack police , attack fellow Americans with different political view points, Take down statues in our country which honor great men and women of history.


                            All of these signs point to foreign agents who could look and talk like Americans being involved in influencing groups like black lives matters and their supporters.

                            Just a few years back the FBI uncovered ten Russian foreign agents who were up to no good and who walked and talked like every day American. They were sent to prison but were traded with four Americans in jail in Russia.

                            Iran, North Korea, the Taliban or AQ could easily be involved in influencing the black lives matters protest doing anything they can to divide Americans.
                            This is a history forum, not a conspiracy theory forum.
                            If you have evidence, please provide it when asked to. It is the least you could do as a display of courtesy to other forum members and to demonstrate a willingness for honest debate.
                            Otherwise, expect to see posts of this type moved to the Alternate History section.
                            It is a struggle but we will not become the next reddit or 4chan.
                            Thank you
                            ACG Staff

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Von Richter View Post
                              Law enforcement, isn't that what the courts, jury and judge are for? I thought the copper's job was to uphold the law and bring the baddies to justice, not execute 'em in the street?

                              71Hcd5hhSDL._AC_SX522_.jpg

                              Unless of course you're Old Stony Face.

                              Splundig vur thrigg, Squaxx dek Thargo.

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