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  • Massena
    replied
    Originally posted by BorderRuffian View Post
    They still use HCQ in India and several other countries...

    "HCQ is obviously not a panacea for severe cases of Covid-19. Given early, it helps reduce mortality by about half, compared to those not given HCQ. In India the drug is widely available and not expensive. A number of Indian states have already incorporated a short course of HCQ in their Covid-19 treatment protocol, and states that have not done so will do well to implement this quickly."
    https://indianexpress.com/article/ex...tment-6504276/

    Mortality Rate

    India 2.1%
    World 3.8%

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
    Wow! Jump on that bandwagon...

    Leave a comment:


  • BorderRuffian
    replied
    They still use HCQ in India and several other countries...

    "HCQ is obviously not a panacea for severe cases of Covid-19. Given early, it helps reduce mortality by about half, compared to those not given HCQ. In India the drug is widely available and not expensive. A number of Indian states have already incorporated a short course of HCQ in their Covid-19 treatment protocol, and states that have not done so will do well to implement this quickly."
    https://indianexpress.com/article/ex...tment-6504276/

    Mortality Rate

    India 2.1%
    World 3.8%

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

    Leave a comment:


  • Massena
    replied
    Another voice against the malaria drug:

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...?ocid=msedgdhp

    White House coronavirus testing czar Adm. Brett Giroir said Sunday that he "can't recommend" hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 in an apparent contradiction of President Trump's support of the drug.

    Leave a comment:


  • CarpeDiem
    replied
    A series of posts between slick24 and Massena were removed.
    Your opinions of each other are not relevant and provide nothing of value to this thread.
    Stop the sniping.
    Thank you.
    ACG Staff

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

    I don't recall make statements linking the material I've presented to Trump's claims. I'm presenting such to counter the misinformation on this substance coming from others and to provide information for readers to make their own minds about.

    Whether Trump took it or not, endorses it or not, the relevant consideration should be the detailks published in medical journals results showing it can be of use in certain conditions and should be available for such.

    The more people try to tag this to Trump and use it to negative spin on both as an usable treatment, and as a device to "get Trump" the more they show they don't really care about the disease and people catching, suffering, and or dying from such. It's all about politicizing anything and everything to "get Trump".
    If you want to ignore the claim that the president promoting the medicine for preventive reasons and the fact that your source about the effects of medicine on symptomatic patients does not validate his claim, you are free to do so. I just wanted to talk about the facts that you ignore in a thread which is clearly about the Hydroxychloroquine controversy

    Leave a comment:


  • wolfhnd
    replied
    What you have to understand is that in society so overtaken by Luxus form comes to dominate function. In that environment you can dress up a toad and the courtiers see a prince. Trump is not a prince but neither is he a toad. He is a typical loud and obnoxious New Yorker who would often be better off keeping his random thoughts to himself. Still he hasn't completely abandoned function as our overly emotive elites have. The Democrats and neo cons have no clothes when you pull back the curtain. It's all just theater and self importance, the chaos of the preference for form.

    Leave a comment:


  • BorderRuffian
    replied
    Originally posted by Massena
    Trump is not better than Obama.
    Trump is 10 times better than Obama
    Last edited by BorderRuffian; 31 Jul 20, 10:56.

    Leave a comment:


  • slick24
    replied
    Are they hiding something?

    The Lancet Retracts Hydroxychloroquine Study
    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...oroquine-study


    June 4, 2020 - The online medical journal The Lancet has apologized to readers after retracting a study that said the anti-malarial drug hydroxychloroquine did not help to curb COVID-19 and might cause death in patients.

    The study was withdrawn because the company that provided data would not provide full access to the information for a third-party peer review, saying to do so would violate client agreements and confidentiality requirements, The Lancet said in a statement.

    “Based on this development, we can no longer vouch for the veracity of the primary data sources. Due to this unfortunate development, the authors request that the paper be retracted,” The Lancet said in a statement..........

    https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/2020...oroquine-study
    see the link above for the full article..

    Leave a comment:


  • Metryll
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    ... I'm presenting such to counter the misinformation on this substance coming from others and to provide information for readers to make their own minds about.:
    NO.

    Data show that hydroxychloroquine don't work. You take isolated claims as proof of disinformation then totally, purposely or not, discard scientific method. This is not countering misinformation, this is spreading disinformation.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    So, since Trump was not symptomatic when he announced that he took the drug, you cannot use this study to justify Trump's claims

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=72039824

    Asked to clarify his position on the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, Trump said that "many doctors think it is extremely successful."

    "I took it for a 14-day period, and I'm here. Right? I'm here," he said. "I don't think you lose anything by doing it, other than politically.
    I don't recall make statements linking the material I've presented to Trump's claims. I'm presenting such to counter the misinformation on this substance coming from others and to provide information for readers to make their own minds about.

    Whether Trump took it or not, endorses it or not, the relevant consideration should be the detailks published in medical journals results showing it can be of use in certain conditions and should be available for such.

    The more people try to tag this to Trump and use it to negative spin on both as an usable treatment, and as a device to "get Trump" the more they show they don't really care about the disease and people catching, suffering, and or dying from such. It's all about politicizing anything and everything to "get Trump".

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    So, since Trump was not symptomatic when he announced that he took the drug, you cannot use this study to justify Trump's claims

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...ry?id=72039824

    Asked to clarify his position on the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine, Trump said that "many doctors think it is extremely successful."

    "I took it for a 14-day period, and I'm here. Right? I'm here," he said. "I don't think you lose anything by doing it, other than politically.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by Schmart View Post

    I agree.

    It's far from the magic bullet. There's still more research and trials to be done:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...eatment-386056

    "Navarro’s advocacy on behalf of hydroxychloroquine has ramped up since a study conducted earlier this month by the Henry Ford Medical Center suggested the drug could help mildly ill patients recover faster from Covid-19.

    But experts have noted that patients who participated in the trial, which did not include a placebo control group, were not randomized and that many were also on steroids known to help with inflammation."
    Context of the preceding two paragraphs is more honest and informative ....
    .......
    Navarro, who is assisting with the administration’s coronavirus vaccine development and coordination of the supply chain for personal protective equipment, has clashed repeatedly with public health officials including Dr. Anthony Fauci, the country’s top infectious disease expert, over the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine since the early days of the pandemic.

    “I’m pleading with you and the American people to look at this drug again,” Navarro said. “Because I literally have tens of millions of tablets sitting in the Strategic National Stockpile that — if we were allowed under the doctors’ advice to get this stuff to people at the first sign of their symptoms — I guarantee you it would cut the amount of time of the symptoms, reduce the duration of the symptoms and save lives.”
    .......


    Sort of like CPR. Given within minutes of a heart attack or other situation that calls for it, it can make major difference and be a life saver. Wait a couple hours and the window of effectiveness is past.

    Leave a comment:


  • G David Bock
    replied
    Originally posted by Capt AFB View Post
    If hydroxychloroquine proves its worth clinically in the fight against COVID 19, well, that is good news. Reading through some of the material recently published, a few things pops up to me:
    1.The efficacy of hydroxychloroquine is dependant on its use in conjunction with two other drugs (azithromycin,remdesivir) and possibly zinc to treat people infected with COVID-19.

    (My comment: So it is not a miracle drug on its own. It will not save society from COVID 19 It is part of the solution as it is part of a cocktail of drugs.)

    2. The three- drug cocktail is effective on m
    ost people less than 60 years old who are of healthy weight and who don’t have other conditions like heart disease or diabetes can get by without medications.

    (My comment: So if you are relatively healthy before you catch COVID 19, this may work for you - Maybe not so for folks belonging to the older generation or struggling with life-long diseases.)

    3. From an earlier post on this thread taken from various references mentions
    The part missing is that Dr Risch is also quoted to say:


    (My comment: So I take not everyone can be saved, good for those who can be, and continued evaluation of the drug is still required.)

    At the end,
    hydroxychloroquine may seem to be part of the solution to beat COVID 19, and I have no problems acknowledging it. But it is no stand-alone miracle cure for COVID 19 and that should also be acknowledged.
    1) As early as possible is crucial, within the first five to six days of symptoms.

    2) Only partial excerpts from linked articles presented because of Forum rules and concerns of copyright infringements.

    3) Material presented is to the point it is a treatment, not a cure.
    To reduce symptoms and suffering and hasten recovery of effects.

    4) In midst of a "pandemic"and one only a few months old, and with desire to end dislocations ASAP, usual research methods might be shortcut. If continued class as an experimental treatment and patients advised of the risks, than it should be a patient's choice.

    5) While opposing opinions is common to science, and medicine, especially in recent appearing events/cases; some would appear to be do to misconceptions and misreading of current data and research.

    Leave a comment:


  • Schmart
    replied
    Originally posted by Capt AFB View Post
    At the end, hydroxychloroquine may seem to be part of the solution to beat COVID 19, and I have no problems acknowledging it. But it is no stand-alone miracle cure for COVID 19 and that should also be acknowledged.
    I agree.

    It's far from the magic bullet. There's still more research and trials to be done:

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...eatment-386056

    "Navarro’s advocacy on behalf of hydroxychloroquine has ramped up since a study conducted earlier this month by the Henry Ford Medical Center suggested the drug could help mildly ill patients recover faster from Covid-19.

    But experts have noted that patients who participated in the trial, which did not include a placebo control group, were not randomized and that many were also on steroids known to help with inflammation."

    Leave a comment:


  • Capt AFB
    replied
    If hydroxychloroquine proves its worth clinically in the fight against COVID 19, well, that is good news. Reading through some of the material recently published, a few things pops up to me:
    1.The efficacy of hydroxychloroquine is dependant on its use in conjunction with two other drugs (azithromycin,remdesivir) and possibly zinc to treat people infected with COVID-19.

    (My comment: So it is not a miracle drug on its own. It will not save society from COVID 19 It is part of the solution as it is part of a cocktail of drugs.)

    2. The three- drug cocktail is effective on m
    ost people less than 60 years old who are of healthy weight and who don’t have other conditions like heart disease or diabetes can get by without medications.

    (My comment: So if you are relatively healthy before you catch COVID 19, this may work for you - Maybe not so for folks belonging to the older generation or struggling with life-long diseases.)

    3. From an earlier post on this thread taken from various references mentions
    Dr. Harvey Risch, an epidemiology professor at Yale School of Public Health, said on Tuesday that he thinks hydroxychloroquine could save 75,000 to 100,000 lives if the drug is widely used to treat coronavirus.
    The part missing is that Dr Risch is also quoted to say:
    In the current context "(...), we cannot afford the luxury of perfect knowledge and must evaluate, now and on an ongoing basis, the evidence for benefit and risk of these medications,” he urges.
    (My comment: So I take not everyone can be saved, good for those who can be, and continued evaluation of the drug is still required.)

    At the end,
    hydroxychloroquine may seem to be part of the solution to beat COVID 19, and I have no problems acknowledging it. But it is no stand-alone miracle cure for COVID 19 and that should also be acknowledged.

    Last edited by Capt AFB; 29 Jul 20, 13:13. Reason: Grammar corrections

    Leave a comment:

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