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  • "but there is no voter fraud"

    Dem Official Racks Up 6 Felony Charges For Voter Fraud

    ...
    A Democratic official in Michigan is facing trial for allegations of voting fraud from the 2018 midterm elections, after being charged with six counts of election-related felonies. Sherikia Hawkins is the City of Southfield’s Clerk, and is bound for trial on all counts of fraud, per Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel. The complaint of fraud alleges that Hawkins abused her role and used her computer to alter the Qualified Voter File from 2018’s election in an attempt to void absentee ballots. The charges are as follows, per local Michigan reporting:
    ...

    https://realnewsrealpatriots.com/dem...dium=HTMLEmail
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

  • #2
    Yeah, well, Republicans would never be involved in voter fraud, would they?
    Face it, with 327 million inhabitants both sides will have them, and probably fairly evenly distributed.

    In the midst of his 2012 GOP primary campaign for a Massachusetts state House seat, Jack Villamaino changed the party affiliation of nearly 300 people in his town of East Longmeadow. Days later, the same number of absentee ballot requests were dropped off at the town clerk’s office, a list that was almost a “name-for-name match” for those whose registration information Villamaino had altered.

    Earlier this week, Villamaino pleaded guilty to felony charges of stealing ballots and changing the party affiliation of 280 Democrats during his campaign for state representative. A judge sentenced him to a year in jail, only four months of which he’ll be forced to serve behind bars.
    "For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return"

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Rutger View Post
      Yeah, well, Republicans would never be involved in voter fraud, would they?
      Face it, with 327 million inhabitants both sides will have them, and probably fairly evenly distributed.
      Don't fall for the deflection. The real story is voter suppression.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DingBat View Post

        Don't fall for the deflection. The real story is voter suppression.
        Then show examples and evidence/sources.

        My experience working with the county auditors office on voting validation is that the problem is more voter apathy and small participation. In my state everyone gets a ballot in the mail and can return that way. Still no great increase in numbers whom will vote.
        TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

        Comment


        • #5
          We've had several cases in recent years where some posters claim there is no such thing, so this was a reminder of such. Using a recent "news" article.
          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

            Then show examples and evidence/sources.

            My experience working with the county auditors office on voting validation is that the problem is more voter apathy and small participation. In my state everyone gets a ballot in the mail and can return that way. Still no great increase in numbers whom will vote.
            Voter suppression in the United States

            How Voter Suppression Works
            THE FACTS ABOUT VOTER SUPPRESSION
            The Many Varieties of Voter Suppression
            Voter Suppression During the 2018 Midterm Elections
            Republican Voter Suppression Efforts Are Targeting Minorities, Journalist Says
            The New Voter Suppression
            Five Acts of Voter Suppression That Will Sway the Next Election
            Voter Suppression Is Warping Democracy
            Voter-Suppression Tactics in the Age of Trump
            ‘They Don’t Really Want Us to Vote’: How Republicans Made It Harder
            Republicans escalate their strategy of voter suppression

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
              We've had several cases in recent years where some posters claim there is no such thing, so this was a reminder of such. Using a recent "news" article.
              I do not recall a claim that there is no such thing as voter fraud. The claim is that it is not significant in magnitude to justify measures against absentee voting. By the way if you read the case you brought up, you will see that the fraud was discovered during the election and it affected about 190 votes.

              My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

              Comment


              • #8
                More examples of voter suppression

                https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...er-suppression

                Likewise, Texas permits voters to use a handgun license to vote, but not a student ID from a state university. More than 80 percent of handgun licenses issued to Texans in 2018 went to white Texans, while more than half of the students in the University of Texas system are racial or ethnic minorities.


                For example, following the election and reelection of President Obama — and the
                concomitant surge in turnout by Black voters — states like North Carolina imposed new restrictions on early voting, which was disproportionately used by people of color.

                https://www.brennancenter.org/our-wo...analysis-finds

                Using data released by the federal Election Assistance Commission (EAC) in June, a new Brennan Center analysis has found that between 2016 and 2018, counties with a history of voter discrimination have continued purging people from the rolls at much higher rates than other counties.

                Problems arise when states remove voters who are still eligible to vote. States rely on faulty data that purport to show that a voter has moved to another state. Oftentimes, these data get people mixed up. In big states like California and Texas, multiple individuals can have the same name and date of birth, making it hard to be sure that the right voter is being purged when perfect data are unavailable. Troublingly, minority voters are more likely to share names than white voters, potentially exposing them to a greater risk of being purged. Voters often do not realize they have been purged until they try to cast a ballot on Election Day — after it’s already too late. If those voters live in a state without election day registration, they are often prevented from participating in that election.

                ​​​​​​​
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by pamak View Post

                  I do not recall a claim that there is no such thing as voter fraud. The claim is that it is not significant in magnitude to justify measures against absentee voting. By the way if you read the case you brought up, you will see that the fraud was discovered during the election and it affected about 190 votes.
                  I agree-it seems like a strawman argument.

                  What I recall is that there has been no proof of widespread voter fraud, and the cases of voter fraud that have been caught, by both parties, have been prosecuted.

                  The largest instance of it happened in North Carolina and that election was voided and rescheduled-and it was on the Republican, not the Democrat-side of things.
                  We are not now that strength which in old days
                  Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                  Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                  To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post

                    Then show examples and evidence/sources.

                    My experience working with the county auditors office on voting validation is that the problem is more voter apathy and small participation. In my state everyone gets a ballot in the mail and can return that way. Still no great increase in numbers whom will vote.
                    I think voter apathy and small turnouts is indirectly related to voter "suppression". If one can demonize one's political opponent enough, maybe that will prevent a certain number of people from voting for the opponent.

                    Plus in these times, with the two parties so thoroughly entrenched and having shown virtually no willingness or capability to broaden their appeal beyond their relatively narrow bases (a political strategic mistake, IMHO) the only options left to influence the election is to increase one's own turnout and try to reduce one's opponent's turnout.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rutger View Post
                      Yeah, well, Republicans would never be involved in voter fraud, would they?
                      Face it, with 327 million inhabitants both sides will have them, and probably fairly evenly distributed.
                      If a Republican were involved, you can be damn sure that CNN and the rest of the Fake News Networks would be screaming about it for weeks on end.

                      The latest attempts in Michigan involves mailing out applications for absentee ballots where an alarming number of households are getting applications for people they have never heard of, moved away years ago, or are deceased.
                      “Breaking News,”

                      “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Did you not hear and/or read of the congressional election in North Carolina that had to be redone because of Republican voter fraud? It was on the news, but there was no 'screaming for weeks on end.' It was reported, talked about, and the election was a do-over.

                        The election was manipulated by a Republican operative who got caught. The Republican hue and cry is always about widespread voter fraud and there is no evidence of that and none has been presented or shown. It's a Republican strawman argument.

                        I have no doubt that if Trump loses in November his whining and crying on the way out the door will be 'voter fraud.'

                        https://www.npr.org/2019/07/30/74680...e-ballot-fraud

                        Prosecutors in North Carolina filed new felony charges against a Republican political operative accused of ballot tampering in a congressional election in 2018.

                        Leslie McCrae Dowless was charged Tuesday with two counts of felony obstruction of justice, perjury, solicitation to commit perjury, conspiracy to obstruct justice and illegal possession of absentee ballots, according to a statement by Wake County District Attorney Lorrin Freeman.

                        The charges relate to the tainted 9th congressional district election last year in which Republican Mark Harris led in the unofficial vote tally by a margin of about 900 votes over Democrat Dan McCready. But the election results were overturned by the state after an investigation into an absentee ballot operation on Harris' behalf suggested that Dowless had improperly collected and possibly tampered with ballots.

                        https://www.cnn.com/2018/12/12/polit...sis/index.html

                        President Donald Trump and others have long claimed, without evidence, that there is widespread "voter fraud" in America. Some have pointed to the mounting evidence of fraud in North Carolina as proof that voter fraud is a real problem.

                        Yet, I would argue that the situation in North Carolina proves nothing of the sort. There, a political operative who was working for a consulting firm hired by the Republican candidate is accused of directing an illegal scheme involving absentee ballots.

                        What occurred in the Tarheel State wasn't voter fraud. It was election fraud. And unlike allegations made by the President about voter fraud, there's actual evidence that election fraud may have occurred in North Carolina.


                        We are not now that strength which in old days
                        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Election Fraud and Voter Fraud would seem to be the two sides of the same coin, so to speak.

                          Several years ago, in my state-Washington, we had a governor's race that was too close in the numbers difference that it required a recount. At that point the Republican candidate had won, but the margin was very small and fell within the percentage quide-lines for recount. As it turned out, the issue revolved around the ballots for the city of Seattle, so those had to be recounted. The auditor agency responsible for ballot tally was staffed predominately with Democrats, and in the course of the recount, they "found" a box of ballots that had been "overlooked". Irony was that the tallies were still too close to qualify either candidate but seems the Democrat one had now gained the edge.

                          So another recount was required and guess what? Another box of ballots that had been "overlooked" was "found". And this second time around, third time the charm, the counters managed to get their math right and "find" enough other ballots for the Democrat candidate to win by.
                          .................................................. ......................

                          Since then, my state has gone to mail-in ballot voting, so there is no ID check at the place of polling ~ there are no polling/voting places anymore. It's your mailbox. And if you are on the voter rolls, you get a ballot mailed to you and free postage to mail back. Easy - Peasy, Yet voter turnout hasn't increased significantly even with it being near no hassle to do such.

                          However - my state has a couple other factors that could play into voter/election fraud.
                          .................................................. .........
                          First is the motor-voter process where if one is getting a driver's license, new or renewed, they will be automatically registered to vote, no ID check required to see if they are actually a citizen and/or legal (like non-felon) to vote. Merely sign a statement(affidavit) that you are legal and able to be a voter. The "honor" system here, and some would say the opposite of voter "suppression".

                          There are two types of driver's license and the above is the "basic" one, which first time getting, one does have to provide proof of age, and/or residence if replacing an out of state(or another country) license. A utility bill showing your name and address will suffice to prove you are a resident (legal or illegal ).
                          .................................................. .....

                          The second version is the "Enhanced" which has worked for positive ID at airports, or when crossing border into Canada or Mexico. This will require documented proof of citizenship(USA) since it works close to a passport. It also has a chip embedded. So it is rather difficult to be a fraudulent voter via the Enhanced driver's license, but rather easier with the regular/basic one.
                          .................................................. ......

                          The other avenue towards voter fraud is that mail-in ballot. Technically anyone can fill-out and mail in, but signatures will have to match what's on record.* Another "anecdotal" method heard of occurs in senior rest homes, where staff sometimes gets a resident to sign their ballot, but the staff member will mark the boxes/choices for them. This can also happen with in-home care-giving.

                          We also have systems a bit lax to remove those no longer living, nor do counties compare lists very often or effectively (to remove multiple registrations).

                          Many of these above methods for voter/election fraud are hard to detect or prove, especiallyy if those engaging in such don't come forward and confess. Methods to improve and tighten the process have been blocked in our Legislature, dragging out the old "fears of voter suppression" this might do.

                          * Some recent experiences on this in the next post.
                          TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Our state (Washington) Legislature that meets in the capitol - Olympia, has a House and a Senate. Representatives elected to the House are on two year terms, so every two years the whole body is up for election again. The Senate serve six year terms so only a third of them on the ballot every two years.

                            This past election; Nov. 2018, two races for our county were too close in tally (difference of count) to give to the one with most votes. IIRC, state law requires a minimum percentage difference in the ballots cast to give the race to a candidate without a recount. In my county we had a slight problem in that about 500 ballots were invalid. Either no signature or one that didn't match what was on record.

                            Our mail-in ballot process has the ballot sealed in an inner envelope, tucked inside the mailing envelope, which is where the voter signs and dates. If properly signed then the inner sealed ballot is removed and place in pile to be later opened and counted.

                            Both parties; Dems and Reps; gathered their volunteers to go knocking on doors to validate what votes we could. Process was state we were doing a post-election survey and would they mind letting us know who they voted for in another race on the ballot that was uncontested. If they answered, and it was our candidate then we'd let them know about the issue with their ballot and get an affidavit from them, to make their ballot valid. If they answered they voted for the other side, we'd thank them and let the other side come and get their affidavit.

                            We had about a two week window to validate what ballots we could and after that the new tallies were still too close to call, so the county had to do a recount. The Auditor's Office hired some temps to do the counting and each party tried to provide an observer for each team of two doing the recount. IIRC, most teams had their one observer each, but I seem to recall the Dems were a bit short in providing a full set. Anyways, each pair of counters would split the pile they had in two, then split that into two more, one for each candidate in the race being recounted. They would then count their two halves, then swap and count the other two halves.

                            We observers were sitting across the table watching and though it meant reading upside down, it was possible to see the race being counted, which box was marked. Was interesting to note that along with most being all of either party marked, some were just all the female candidates, no matter which party; some were obvious one then the other (the coin toss vote), and a few whimsical had a lot of "my dog Spot" in the write-in slot.

                            Close to a couple dozen tables set up and took a couple days, but when it was all done, the two contested races were still rather close and had no major change in counts. However the recount had been done and the two races could now go to the winners, though the differences were less than a hundred votes for either (actually, IIRC, more like a few dozen).

                            Elections can be rather close enough that a "few" fraud votes can make a difference, if there are such.
                            TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

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