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Would you wear a face shield?

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  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
    All the money spent and misery suffered under the control measures and all they did was kick the can further down the road by about 2 months. All this wasted effort and money in pursuit of a vaccine, herd immunity, or other whimsical fantasy; when they could have done something concrete like building actual test facilities.
    So, you are making a prediction that countries like Germany which avoided excessive number of deaths are just two months behind countries like the UK and Italy?

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  • Herman Hum
    replied
    Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
    The bottom line is the money we spent on the pandemic could have been spent to save more lives over the long run on things such as malaria control but some lives are apparently more valuable than other's.
    All the money spent and misery suffered under the control measures and all they did was kick the can further down the road by about 2 months. All this wasted effort and money in pursuit of a vaccine, herd immunity, or other whimsical fantasy; when they could have done something concrete like building actual test facilities.

    Leave a comment:


  • wolfhnd
    replied
    It's all academic until you have to pay the bill.

    The bottom line is the money we spent on the pandemic could have been spent to save more lives over the long run on things such as malaria control but some lives are apparently more valuable than other's.

    It's not so much that money doesn't grow on trees but that the resources that money represent are finite.

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  • Salinator
    replied
    Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
    There are limitations with daily testing. For example, if you are infected on Day 0, your body may not have replicated enough virii to be detected until Day 4 or 5. You may still be infectious before the daily testing registers a positive result. This does not make daily testing useless. Even if Day 0 to 3 is negative, daily testing will still catch it at Day 4 and allow you conduct contact tracing for the few days prior to your positive result.

    Different tests also have various levels of reliability and accuracy. A negative test may give the subject a false sense of security. However, any testing is better than no testing. Daily or regular testing can also switch between various methods, in hopes of one test covering the limitations from another test. (Not likely, but it might be possible.)

    Certainly, a vaccine would be the only certain solution. However, there is no way to know when / if one will ever become available. The only sensible solution is to plan for the worst case scenario; no vaccine will be found. We cannot wait for something that may never appear. We can do something positive with testing. It will cost zillions, but it is the definite measure that can be taken and over which we have actual control.
    Oxford that is working on a vaccine said that the infection rates are actually too low for them to do a meaningful control group study with vaccine vs placebo results with any accuracy.

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  • Herman Hum
    replied
    Originally posted by Salinator View Post
    Even daily test is useless as you can be infected immediately after test or perhaps even during the testing process itself. Until there is a known for sure effective treatment or vaccine, nothing can really be truly effective, not even MOPP 4 suits because a DECON system support system is even less practical than the suit itself.
    There are limitations with daily testing. For example, if you are infected on Day 0, your body may not have replicated enough virii to be detected until Day 4 or 5. You may still be infectious before the daily testing registers a positive result. This does not make daily testing useless. Even if Day 0 to 3 is negative, daily testing will still catch it at Day 4 and allow you conduct contact tracing for the few days prior to your positive result.

    Different tests also have various levels of reliability and accuracy. A negative test may give the subject a false sense of security. However, any testing is better than no testing. Daily or regular testing can also switch between various methods, in hopes of one test covering the limitations from another test. (Not likely, but it might be possible.)

    Certainly, a vaccine would be the only certain solution. However, there is no way to know when / if one will ever become available. The only sensible solution is to plan for the worst case scenario; no vaccine will be found. We cannot wait for something that may never appear. We can do something positive with testing. It will cost zillions, but it is the definite measure that can be taken and over which we have actual control.

    Leave a comment:


  • Salinator
    replied
    Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
    That level of testing is the only way to really control this virus. I would go even further, if possible, to daily testing. Those Spartan Cubes might have been the answer. Test every morning before you leave for work. If daily is not possible, then every second day, or every week. Any time anyone goes out into public spaces a daily test should be required. Anyone who stays home and only interacts within their household can ignore it, until the next time they go out in public.
    Even daily test is useless as you can be infected immediately after test or perhaps even during the testing process itself. Until there is a known for sure effective treatment or vaccine, nothing can really be truly effective, not even MOPP 4 suits because a DECON system support system is even less practical than the suit itself.

    Now, will a faces shield on top of a mask be helpful? Probably, because it more of less solves the unprotected eyes and the masks being too porous situation because even .03 micron can't penetrate solid plastic. The problem is that light and cheap face shields can only be sterilized so many times before it has to be replaced. All the N95's and plastic shields on a long term basis is gonna kill a common Joe's budget. Discipline is also needed to handle the face shield, just like it should be with the masks.

    The most useless thing, for someone not a first responder or dealing with a hygienic situation such as working with trash or being a food processor, is wearing gloves. Gloves should be changed constantly, like masks really should be. Wearing the same pair of gloves all day long only serves to spread the virus because the gloves will transfer the virus from object to object, and thus putting more people at risk. The best thing do do is to sanitize your hands after each stop, or after each transaction if you are for example a cashier or restaurant worker handling a lot of stuff breathed/sneezed/coughed on or touch by unknown numbers of individuals, as well as handling cash and credit cards. I never gave touchless electronic money transactions much thought until the COVID-19 situation, and I suspect there will be a surge of people as well as brick and mortars adding that feature.
    Last edited by Salinator; 26 May 20, 18:53.

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  • Karri
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    Why not?

    As it was explained in another thread (https://forums.armchairgeneral.com/f...80#post5195780) if you believe that you should carry an assault rifle to protect people from mass shootings, you should not flinch to the idea of carrying a face shield.
    The truth being that you only carry assault rifles in public because you think it makes you look like a badass. Such a small thing wearing a mask, yet some people have built it into a hill to die on.

    Leave a comment:


  • Herman Hum
    replied
    Originally posted by Nikki View Post
    My job requires all employees to take a weekly CV-19 test every Friday. They arrange a medical trailer that comes every Friday morning and stays in the parking lot until 5pm. Result are available by Sun evening and if the results are positive, you are not allowed to go into the building Mon morning.
    That level of testing is the only way to really control this virus. I would go even further, if possible, to daily testing. Those Spartan Cubes might have been the answer. Test every morning before you leave for work. If daily is not possible, then every second day, or every week. Any time anyone goes out into public spaces a daily test should be required. Anyone who stays home and only interacts within their household can ignore it, until the next time they go out in public.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nikki
    replied
    Originally posted by Rutger View Post
    My wife works in a hospital. She is in near-daily contact with many patients. 6 Foot needles haven't been designed yet, most I know of are about an inch and a half long. That gets you pretty close to the patients.
    No face mask, no face shield, no gloves. Lots of hands washing though (as always).
    She also asks patients not to talk into her direction while taking blood.
    Only when she has to visit corona patients (or any other isolated patients for that matter) she gets all dressed up from top to toe.
    No testing of employees, unless obvious symptoms show up.

    I'd say the folks at hospitals know pretty well what makes sense and what doesn't.

    I went to the hairdresser last saturday. She was wearing a face mask, I told her I'd be fine if she took it off as chances are terribly small to get infected, so small that in hospitals they don't wear facemasks under normal conditions.
    Well, company policy she said.

    Your post was fine until you said you told your hairdresser it was OK for her to remove her mask while tending to your hair hygiene.

    And for someone who have a significant other in the medical field...

    I can only imagine the hairdresser must look really HOT for you to insist the face mask be removed.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rutger
    replied
    My wife works in a hospital. She is in near-daily contact with many patients. 6 Foot needles haven't been designed yet, most I know of are about an inch and a half long. That gets you pretty close to the patients.
    No face mask, no face shield, no gloves. Lots of hands washing though (as always).
    She also asks patients not to talk into her direction while taking blood.
    Only when she has to visit corona patients (or any other isolated patients for that matter) she gets all dressed up from top to toe.
    No testing of employees, unless obvious symptoms show up.

    I'd say the folks at hospitals know pretty well what makes sense and what doesn't.

    I went to the hairdresser last saturday. She was wearing a face mask, I told her I'd be fine if she took it off as chances are terribly small to get infected, so small that in hospitals they don't wear facemasks under normal conditions.
    Well, company policy she said.

    Leave a comment:


  • Nikki
    replied
    Originally posted by bill shack View Post
    I wear a surgical mask, and gloves , when i am inside and in public. If i could find a face mask i would wear one too . I would hope that all you do the same, You could have covid-19 and have no symptoms
    and there fore be spreading it . May be even to someone you love.
    My job requires all employees to take a weekly CV-19 test every Friday. They arrange a medical trailer that comes every Friday morning and stays in the parking lot until 5pm. Result are available by Sun evening and if the results are positive, you are not allowed to go into the building Mon morning.

    I'm OK with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • bill shack
    replied
    I wear a surgical mask, and gloves , when i am inside and in public. If i could find a face mask i would wear one too . I would hope that all you do the same, You could have covid-19 and have no symptoms
    and there fore be spreading it . May be even to someone you love.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Nikki View Post
    A pub in Japan is giving out free face shields to customers.




    Considering the results of the CV in Japan, we should actually pay more attention to how the Japanese handled the situation.

    Leave a comment:


  • Herman Hum
    replied
    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
    The people in charge pass ridiculous rules all while patting themselves on the back for being so concerned about our safety.
    Much of the activity in officialdom is to demonstrate to the citizenry that their 'leaders' are actually doing something constructive and worthwhile, in order to justify their salaries and signal their self-importance to everyone.

    "We had to shut down roads so that pedestrians could maintain spacial separation."
    Er, you mean the common man wasn't smart enough to just take a small step to the side onto the grass when someone approached? He needed an apparatchik from city hall to do it for him?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mountain Man
    replied
    How about this instead?

    Leave a comment:

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