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  • Open Skies

    Why leave the Open Skies Treaty?

    I can think of no logical reason. We fly, they fly and everyone was satisfied.
    "Ask not what your country can do for you"

    Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

    you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

  • #2
    It makes a kind of sense if the objective is some level of autarchy and as much as feasible severing ties with the world outside the US. Which is at least consistent with Trump's political intuition. Whether there is any upside to any of it is another matter.

    It is isolationist.

    Comment


    • #3
      It is also moronic. Isolationism went out for the US when we entered War II.
      We are not now that strength which in old days
      Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
      Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
      To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

      Comment


      • #4
        But the Russians oppose our leaving the treaty.
        I thought trump only did what the Russians wanted?

        Anyway, it seems there is an actual reason.
        The White House
        announced it was pulling out of the pact
        Thursday, with administration officials accusing Russia of violating the deal by not allowing flights over parts of its territory.
        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ty/ar-BB14tvuL


        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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        • #5
          Given that satellites are now capable of reading a car's license plate from 300+ miles above.....is there any point to the flights?
          You'll live, only the best get killed.

          -General Charles de Gaulle

          Comment


          • #6
            Its one thing to escort flights but a completely different thing to do this:

            https://www.businessinsider.com/vide...ircraft-2020-4

            If this is Russia's idea of open skies....then yes we should pull out of it.
            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by asterix View Post
              Given that satellites are now capable of reading a car's license plate from 300+ miles above.....is there any point to the flights?
              The only problem with relying on satellites for surveillance is that it is very easy to determine exactly when a satellite is overhead, whereas with an aircraft, whether manned or unmanned, to predict when it will make a pass.
              Too Much To Do Too Little Time

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by FTCS View Post

                The only problem with relying on satellites for surveillance is that it is very easy to determine exactly when a satellite is overhead, whereas with an aircraft, whether manned or unmanned, to predict when it will make a pass.
                Wrong. The aircraft flights are know in advance so no big surprise there.
                "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                  But the Russians oppose our leaving the treaty.
                  I thought trump only did what the Russians wanted?

                  Anyway, it seems there is an actual reason.
                  The White House
                  announced it was pulling out of the pact
                  Thursday, with administration officials accusing Russia of violating the deal by not allowing flights over parts of its territory.
                  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ty/ar-BB14tvuL


                  he is doing what they want. make the US look like the bad guy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    btw do we need to fly over kalingrad it so small we should be able to see from the perimeter

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Half Pint John View Post

                      Wrong. The aircraft flights are know in advance so no big surprise there.
                      are you saying that the time that a SR-71 was launched and where it was going was known by anyone other than the mission commander?
                      Too Much To Do Too Little Time

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by asterix View Post
                        Given that satellites are now capable of reading a car's license plate from 300+ miles above.....is there any point to the flights?
                        Peeking via satellites doesn't allow direct interaction with them other fellers on the others side. Flying a couple of planes over there and making a couple of passes through their airspace does require that.

                        The Open Skies thing really is all about interaction and making the sides directly familiar with each other. It's how you even start building a bit of mutual trust that the guys on the other side aren't just fools and nutters.

                        But I can see how Trump and large parts of this board would think all of that completely redundant since, really, the world should be all about handing out knuckle sandwiches. MAGA...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by craven View Post
                          btw do we need to fly over kalingrad it so small we should be able to see from the perimeter
                          You don't. You do it so the Russians have an opportunity to conclude Americans don't all have hooves and smell of elderberries... And vice versa with the Russians coming over. Maybe have a drink and a talk bit of nerdy aviation shop?

                          Notice the "Open" in Open Skies. This is not some kind of weird spy missions. This is interaction to maybe forestall either the Russians or NATO jumping to the wrong conclusions about the other side because of lack of interaction and familiarity.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FTCS View Post

                            are you saying that the time that a SR-71 was launched and where it was going was known by anyone other than the mission commander?
                            SR-71??? was it part of the Open Skies program? NO it wasn't
                            "Ask not what your country can do for you"

                            Left wing, Right Wing same bird that they are killing.

                            you’re entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                              But the Russians oppose our leaving the treaty.
                              I thought trump only did what the Russians wanted?

                              Anyway, it seems there is an actual reason.
                              The White House
                              announced it was pulling out of the pact
                              Thursday, with administration officials accusing Russia of violating the deal by not allowing flights over parts of its territory.
                              https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...ty/ar-BB14tvuL


                              The same people who said that Trump was a Russian agent, are now whining that he is responsible for the deterioration of the relations with Russia.

                              Comment

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