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New york city - the scramble for respiratory ventilators

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  • New york city - the scramble for respiratory ventilators

    The saddest part of the shortage in hospital ventilators is that warnings have been going out- for decades.

    Unlike a vaccine, or even testing kits, emergency ventilators could have been manufactured and stored .

    Ontario may face a shortage by the end of April...
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/n...ntilators.html
    The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

  • #2
    Don't go thinking ventilators some kind of miracle treatment, It's more a last-ditch desperate attempt to save the patient's life. By the time a patient is intubated, he's really very, very sick, and the longer he remains on the machine, the greater his odds of dieing. It's just that, until COVID, nobody's ever had to treat 30, 40, 50 critical respiratory isolation cases simultaneously. Whatever the rules were before, they've gone out the window.
    I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

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    • #3
      Originally posted by slick_miester View Post
      Don't go thinking ventilators some kind of miracle treatment, It's more a last-ditch desperate attempt to save the patient's life. By the time a patient is intubated, he's really very, very sick, and the longer he remains on the machine, the greater his odds of dieing. It's just that, until COVID, nobody's ever had to treat 30, 40, 50 critical respiratory isolation cases simultaneously. Whatever the rules were before, they've gone out the window.
      good point.
      Palliative care will save a lot more people , along with self isolation spreading the load.

      We have gotten so complacent. During the 19th century- 90% of Native Hawaiians died from viruses - mainly the flu and smallpox. 600.00 people ( Est) reduced to 55,000 by 1900.
      a sobering reminder.
      The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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      • #4
        Good point slick and Mark

        ford needs a few weeks till the ventilators already Hopefully can be shipped in New York City

        my dad has a friend in New York City who is a volunteer nurse came out of retirement to help the people of the city

        she has only one mask to wear. My dad through My deceased aunts husband is going to send her three more that’s all that he has the spare. The gov of New York needs to except Remington’s offer for protective equipment And needs to do so at this hour
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

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        • #5
          CA is loaning 500 of its ventilators to the National Stockpile for NY and states which now have an immediate need.

          According to the governor, state models project pick demand for CA somewhere around May, so for the time being we can loan our excess ventilators.

          https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/cali...kpile/2268348/

          California to Loan 500 Ventilators to National Stockpile


          California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Monday the state would loan 500 ventilators to the national stockpile for use by New York and other states experiencing a crush of coronavirus-related hospitalizations.

          California chose to loan some of its equipment because it is not yet in as dire a situation as New York, now the nation’s epicenter for the crisis, said Jesse Melgar, a spokesman for the governor. Newsom said state modeling shows California will hit its peak of cases sometime in May.


          Interesting that they project a peak in CA more than a month from now This means there will be a long period of constant rise of cases in CA. At least up until now the rate of increase is low. Of course, over a long time, even a small rate can still create big challenges. But again, the idea is to make sure that the healthcare system can work below maximum capacity instead of becoming overwhelmed by a fast increase of admitted patients.
          My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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          • #6
            Stop panicking! Get three feet of garden hose and find a friend.
            Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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            • #7
              Doing a bit of googling. Ventilators are far from a panacea for COVID patients and the chances for any such patient on a ventilator are not good.

              https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/early-s...mortality-rate
              "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Surrey View Post
                Doing a bit of googling. Ventilators are far from a panacea for COVID patients and the chances for any such patient on a ventilator are not good.

                https://newsroom.uw.edu/news/early-s...mortality-rate
                This study still has a 50% mortality rate, and it focus only on the most critically ill patients who are on the ventilator.

                A study of 24 of the most critically ill patients with COVID-19, early on in the pandemic, indicated a high mortality rate, and a prolonged time on respirators for the patients who did survive the virus’ attack.
                ...

                Most of the patients in the study spent an average of 10 days on a ventilator. Usually the average time a patient in an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) spends on a ventilator ranges from 3 to 7 days, according to one study.


                So, the mortality rate for the average patient who needs a ventilator must be even lower
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by pamak View Post

                  This study still has a 50% mortality rate, and it focus only on the most critically ill patients who are on the ventilator.

                  A study of 24 of the most critically ill patients with COVID-19, early on in the pandemic, indicated a high mortality rate, and a prolonged time on respirators for the patients who did survive the virus’ attack.
                  ...

                  Most of the patients in the study spent an average of 10 days on a ventilator. Usually the average time a patient in an Intensive Care Unit (ICU) spends on a ventilator ranges from 3 to 7 days, according to one study.


                  So, the mortality rate for the average patient who needs a ventilator must be even lower
                  And note that Covid survival is worse than for other patients with respiratory illness. The same story was repeated in a number of the studies I googled. It isn't good.
                  "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Surrey View Post

                    And note that Covid survival is worse than for other patients with respiratory illness. The same story was repeated in a number of the studies I googled. It isn't good.
                    I am not sure if I made myself clear.

                    Lower mortality is a good thing

                    My point is to caution against underestimating the value of the ventilator based on the results of this study's high mortality rate (50%).

                    I do not have knowledge of what other studies say. Any links?
                    Last edited by pamak; 07 Apr 20, 02:58.
                    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by pamak View Post

                      I am not sure if I made myself clear.

                      Lower mortality is a good thing

                      My point is to caution against underestimating the value of the ventilator based on the results of this study's high mortality rate (50%).

                      I do not have knowledge of what other studies say. Any links?
                      https://www.physiciansweekly.com/mor...n-ventilators/

                      This one which indicates that ventilators may well just prolong the inevitable.

                      "We have some early published data on percentages which vary widely. A paper from China involved 710 Covid-19 patients; 52 were admitted to an ICU. Of the 22 who eventually required mechanical ventilation, 19 (86%) died. Another early study reported 31 of 32 (97%) mechanically ventilated patients died."

                      I am not a doctor, just showing what appears to be the case from studies available on line.
                      "To be free is better than to be unfree - always."

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                      • #12
                        A C-PAP device will suffice in more than 50% of cases instead of a ventilator and they cost a few hundred dollars.
                        We used to make them where I work. I've offered to start making them again but so far I've had no response from the Irish government (we have more than enough ventilators), the UK government (they seem to have given the product we made to Mercedes F1 and they reverse engineered an inferior version which used way too much oxygen) and the US government. So far no response.

                        We could make maybe 500 a week of these devices which, unlike the Mercedes F1 version, would actually be useful. Then again we are dealing with government funded procurement people and you don't suddenly stop being useless after decades of making a career out of being useless, just because there is a pandemic.
                        Just remember, when you hear about shortages, that there are plenty of companies willing and able to help but the public sector is just too incompetent to engage with them.
                        "The thing about quotes on the internet is that you cannot confirm their
                        validity." - Abraham Lincoln.
                        "Nothing's going to change while one side it lying about the cause and the other is lying about the solution" - Me

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                        • #13
                          Good news! NY no longer have a ventilator shortage.

                          “We don’t need any additional ventilators right now,” Cuomo said to reporters.

                          “There is no hospital that needs ventilators that doesn’t have ventilators, there is no hospital that needs PPE that doesn’t have it in the state system,” Cuomo said.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                            Stop panicking! Get three feet of garden hose and find a friend.
                            I'm not sure that administering radical home enemas is a solution to the present crisis- but what the heck,

                            The trout who swims against the current gets the most oxygen..

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