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  • Covid-19 In Perspective

    This is not the first pandemic and it will not be the last. For all we know a much worse pathogen could just be starting to infiltrate the human population. This is very much a case of the enemy you know.

    Within living memory contagious diseases killed millions. In 1967 2 million people died from smallpox. In the 20th century 300 to 500 million people died of smallpox. Between 1981 and 1991 2,000 to 10,000 people in the U.S. died from the measles each year. keep in mind these numbers were at a time of lower populations.

    For decades people have largely been spared the scourge of easily transmitted and deadly viruses. This undoubtedly changes the psychology of the population. Instead of expecting large numbers of people to die from viral infections every year the majority of people expect their government to keep them safe. The question of whether this is a reasonable expectation should be discussed by policy makers but is unlikely to be addressed for political reasons.

    Saying that medical care is a human right is the worst kind of demagoguery. It feeds unrealistic expectations and violates the principle that you cannot have a right that requires someone else's rights to be violated. It isn't just a question of money but who is required to provide you services that you are unwilling to reciprocate. So fundamental is reciprocity to the life of all social animals that to violate it will seriously disrupt social structures foundationally.

    In complex societies reciprocity takes many forms. Instinctually it is about fairness. Since fairness is instinctual it is by definition irrational. Things may feel unfair but when you ask someone to explain fairness they generally present a circular argument referring back to the instinctual. Complex societies require a disconnect between instinctual fairness and cultural fairness. Cultural fairness is a set of rules or laws that restrain the freedom of instinct. Civilization is unavoidably about exchanging freedom for security. More on that later. For now I want to talk about practicality.

    Most people are simply unable to consider cost benefits when human life is at stake. Such an attitude is only rational in a world of unlimited resources. It is relevant to consider not only the limitations of material resources but mental as well. How much intelligence is available and how is it to be used. You can think of the current pandemic as an information war. If it were possible to know everyone that is infected they could be isolated and the majority of people could go on with their lives. Stopping a pandemic would be relatively easy. Information however is a limited resource. It requires labor to develop information. Since a complex society needs a wide array of information it's a matter of cost benefits to allocate and distribute intelligence resources. In this case how many people to work on supply chains, how many for testing and research. The bottom line is that it takes generations to develop intelligence and because of complexity no-one knows how to allocate it or how much to allocate to any particular task but no matter how it is allocated there will never be enough to prevent all preventable deaths. It is also worth noting that it is deve!oped voluntarily by the commitment of individuals. It is very difficult to order people to develop their own faculties. Certainly it can be encouraged but programs such as head start demonstrate how very difficult that can be.

    More later....
    We hunt the hunters

  • #2
    'Perspective' for what?

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/th...cid=spartandhp
    Scientists warned that the United States someday would become the country hardest hit by the coronavirus pandemic. That moment arrived on Thursday.
    In the United States, at least 81,321 people are known to have been infected with the coronavirus, including more than 1,000 deaths — more cases than China, Italy or any other country has seen, according to data gathered by The New York Times.

    With 330 million residents, the United States is the world’s third most populous nation, meaning it provides a vast pool of people who can potentially get Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

    And it is a sprawling, cacophonous democracy, where states set their own policies and President Trump has sent mixed messages about the scale of the danger and how to fight it, ensuring there was no coherent, unified response to a grave public health threat.
    Although the American medical system is unsurpassed and its public health system has a reputation as one of the finest in the world, a series of missteps and lost opportunities dogged the nation’s response.

    Among them: a failure to take the pandemic seriously even as it engulfed China, a deeply flawed effort to provide broad testing for the virus that left the country blind to the extent of the crisis, and a dire shortage of masks and protective gear to protect doctors and nurses on the front lines, as well as ventilators to keep the critically ill alive.
    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
      This is not the first pandemic and it will not be the last. For all we know a much worse pathogen could just be starting to infiltrate the human population. This is very much a case of the enemy you know.

      Within living memory contagious diseases killed millions. In 1967 2 million people died from smallpox. In the 20th century 300 to 500 million people died of smallpox. Between 1981 and 1991 2,000 to 10,000 people in the U.S. died from the measles each year. keep in mind these numbers were at a time of lower populations.

      For decades people have largely been spared the scourge of easily transmitted and deadly viruses. This undoubtedly changes the psychology of the population. Instead of expecting large numbers of people to die from viral infections every year the majority of people expect their government to keep them safe. The question of whether this is a reasonable expectation should be discussed by policy makers but is unlikely to be addressed for political reasons.

      Saying that medical care is a human right is the worst kind of demagoguery. It feeds unrealistic expectations and violates the principle that you cannot have a right that requires someone else's rights to be violated. It isn't just a question of money but who is required to provide you services that you are unwilling to reciprocate. So fundamental is reciprocity to the life of all social animals that to violate it will seriously disrupt social structures foundationally.

      In complex societies reciprocity takes many forms. Instinctually it is about fairness. Since fairness is instinctual it is by definition irrational. Things may feel unfair but when you ask someone to explain fairness they generally present a circular argument referring back to the instinctual. Complex societies require a disconnect between instinctual fairness and cultural fairness. Cultural fairness is a set of rules or laws that restrain the freedom of instinct. Civilization is unavoidably about exchanging freedom for security. More on that later. For now I want to talk about practicality.

      Most people are simply unable to consider cost benefits when human life is at stake. Such an attitude is only rational in a world of unlimited resources. It is relevant to consider not only the limitations of material resources but mental as well. How much intelligence is available and how is it to be used. You can think of the current pandemic as an information war. If it were possible to know everyone that is infected they could be isolated and the majority of people could go on with their lives. Stopping a pandemic would be relatively easy. Information however is a limited resource. It requires labor to develop information. Since a complex society needs a wide array of information it's a matter of cost benefits to allocate and distribute intelligence resources. In this case how many people to work on supply chains, how many for testing and research. The bottom line is that it takes generations to develop intelligence and because of complexity no-one knows how to allocate it or how much to allocate to any particular task but no matter how it is allocated there will never be enough to prevent all preventable deaths. It is also worth noting that it is deve!oped voluntarily by the commitment of individuals. It is very difficult to order people to develop their own faculties. Certainly it can be encouraged but programs such as head start demonstrate how very difficult that can be.

      More later....
      You have always made interesting and informative posts. Stay very safe my good friend.

      my take on this whole thing is that we have to watch out for delirious reporting in the media that has led people to panic if you will. We have an ordeal now with unemployment. One has an opinion on this issue but one should also not try and be divisive in this moment. We are not Republicans we are not Democrats in this moment we are human beings.

      As you know previous diseases have wiped out more than half of the entire world population. If this current virus occurred centuries ago there would of course not have been a panic due to technology. There would not be job shut downs. We need the United States leader ship to ensure for jobs do not go away one thing that could be done is spacing people out at work. It may be tough but where there is a will there is most certainly away. In our country and throughout the rest of the World people need jobs and they cannot just work on their own without either working for the government a business or something of that nature. We have a country because we have a great military and our Constitution provides fair rights to the people. I do wonder and going forward how civilization will advance or falter.

      I don’t necessarily agree with this $2 trillion stimulus because $1200 is not a lot of money in the long run. So we need to ensure that we avoid some sort of depression. Our world civilization sees a system that is not based on anarchy but it’s based on civilization. We must remain civilized the top American leader ship at the federal level has an absolute responsibility to be positive during a time of crisis just as FDR was during World War II. Our world civilization sees a system that is not based on anarchy but it’s based on civilization. We must remain civilized the top American leader ship at the federal level has an absolute responsibility to be positive during a time of crisis just as FDR was during World War II. I country need to use all of its resources to ensure that our economy stays good and we utterly crush this coronavirus

      Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
      Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

      George S Patton

      Comment


      • #4
        We need another stimulus that will be used to ensure some sort of a jobs As well as medical supplies. All Americans should donate 10% of their wealth to defeating the coronavirus and ensuring some sort of a jobs program as well as providing food to children who have parents who are drug attic‘s
        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

        George S Patton

        Comment


        • #5
          We need to ensure our children who have no parents or who have parents who are completely irresponsible that they will still have breakfast lunch and dinner. It’s just all Americans donated 10% of their wealth it would make a considerable difference.
          Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
          Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

          George S Patton

          Comment


          • #6
            I suspect the Chinese government grossly under reported cases there.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
              I suspect the Chinese government grossly under reported cases there.
              You mean a totalitarian fascist state clinging to the 'communist' name would ever give out false information?

              How dare you, of course the CCP would never lie to our elite genius ruling classes......and if they did lie, our big-brained bureaucratic overlords would certainly catch on immediately!
              Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                I suspect the Chinese government grossly under reported cases there.
                over 20 million cell phone users stopped accessing their phones

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                  We need to ensure our children who have no parents or who have parents who are completely irresponsible that they will still have breakfast lunch and dinner. It’s just all Americans donated 10% of their wealth it would make a considerable difference.
                  That's right! We should turn our public school system into nothing but daycare and soup kitchens that provide meals with the occasional incompetent union teachers with some useless degree for a fig leaf of providing "education" of some politically correct sort that's filled with propaganda and misinformation.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                    We need to ensure our children who have no parents or who have parents who are completely irresponsible that they will still have breakfast lunch and dinner. It’s just all Americans donated 10% of their wealth it would make a considerable difference.
                    It is never a question of money only .

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wolfhnd View Post
                      This is not the first pandemic and it will not be the last. For all we know a much worse pathogen could just be starting to infiltrate the human population. This is very much a case of the enemy you know.

                      Within living memory contagious diseases killed millions. In 1967 2 million people died from smallpox. In the 20th century 300 to 500 million people died of smallpox. Between 1981 and 1991 2,000 to 10,000 people in the U.S. died from the measles each year. keep in mind these numbers were at a time of lower populations.

                      For decades people have largely been spared the scourge of easily transmitted and deadly viruses. This undoubtedly changes the psychology of the population. Instead of expecting large numbers of people to die from viral infections every year the majority of people expect their government to keep them safe. The question of whether this is a reasonable expectation should be discussed by policy makers but is unlikely to be addressed for political reasons.

                      Saying that medical care is a human right is the worst kind of demagoguery. It feeds unrealistic expectations and violates the principle that you cannot have a right that requires someone else's rights to be violated. It isn't just a question of money but who is required to provide you services that you are unwilling to reciprocate. So fundamental is reciprocity to the life of all social animals that to violate it will seriously disrupt social structures foundationally.

                      In complex societies reciprocity takes many forms. Instinctually it is about fairness. Since fairness is instinctual it is by definition irrational. Things may feel unfair but when you ask someone to explain fairness they generally present a circular argument referring back to the instinctual. Complex societies require a disconnect between instinctual fairness and cultural fairness. Cultural fairness is a set of rules or laws that restrain the freedom of instinct. Civilization is unavoidably about exchanging freedom for security. More on that later. For now I want to talk about practicality.

                      Most people are simply unable to consider cost benefits when human life is at stake. Such an attitude is only rational in a world of unlimited resources. It is relevant to consider not only the limitations of material resources but mental as well. How much intelligence is available and how is it to be used. You can think of the current pandemic as an information war. If it were possible to know everyone that is infected they could be isolated and the majority of people could go on with their lives. Stopping a pandemic would be relatively easy. Information however is a limited resource. It requires labor to develop information. Since a complex society needs a wide array of information it's a matter of cost benefits to allocate and distribute intelligence resources. In this case how many people to work on supply chains, how many for testing and research. The bottom line is that it takes generations to develop intelligence and because of complexity no-one knows how to allocate it or how much to allocate to any particular task but no matter how it is allocated there will never be enough to prevent all preventable deaths. It is also worth noting that it is deve!oped voluntarily by the commitment of individuals. It is very difficult to order people to develop their own faculties. Certainly it can be encouraged but programs such as head start demonstrate how very difficult that can be.

                      More later....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by OttoHarkaman View Post

                        over 20 million cell phone users stopped accessing their phones
                        That's an unproved claim originating from ...the Chinese government .And,if proved, it does not mean that 20 million Chinese have died .

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                          You have always made interesting and informative posts. Stay very safe my good friend.

                          my take on this whole thing is that we have to watch out for delirious reporting in the media that has led people to panic if you will. We have an ordeal now with unemployment. One has an opinion on this issue but one should also not try and be divisive in this moment. We are not Republicans we are not Democrats in this moment we are human beings.

                          As you know previous diseases have wiped out more than half of the entire world population. If this current virus occurred centuries ago there would of course not have been a panic due to technology. There would not be job shut downs. We need the United States leader ship to ensure for jobs do not go away one thing that could be done is spacing people out at work. It may be tough but where there is a will there is most certainly away. In our country and throughout the rest of the World people need jobs and they cannot just work on their own without either working for the government a business or something of that nature. We have a country because we have a great military and our Constitution provides fair rights to the people. I do wonder and going forward how civilization will advance or falter.

                          I don’t necessarily agree with this $2 trillion stimulus because $1200 is not a lot of money in the long run. So we need to ensure that we avoid some sort of depression. Our world civilization sees a system that is not based on anarchy but it’s based on civilization. We must remain civilized the top American leader ship at the federal level has an absolute responsibility to be positive during a time of crisis just as FDR was during World War II. Our world civilization sees a system that is not based on anarchy but it’s based on civilization. We must remain civilized the top American leader ship at the federal level has an absolute responsibility to be positive during a time of crisis just as FDR was during World War II. I country need to use all of its resources to ensure that our economy stays good and we utterly crush this coronavirus
                          The Belgian professor Van Ranst ( a leftwinger and Trump hater ) who is everyday on TV,said that it is possible that 10% of the Belgian population ( 1 million + ) is infected by the Coronavirus and that this is a good thing,as these people do not know that they are infected because they have no problems and that people are making themselves they antibodies and increase their immunity and thus are defeating the virus .
                          That means
                          a that the more people are infected,the less dangerous the virus is : a paradox that the media refuse to accept
                          b that it is possible that millions of Americans are infected
                          c that it is not needed that the country uses all of its resources to defeat the virus as the American population will defeat it ,without the help of the government
                          d that we are creating and worsening the problem by panicking .
                          e that it is probable that the virus will not disappear but will become dormant til the next winter when it will surface again .

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's obviously too early to start looking at this in perspective. The point is additionally proven by the attendance here.
                            Michele

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by OttoHarkaman View Post

                              over 20 million cell phone users stopped accessing their phones
                              That in itself means nothing. Maybe 20 million died or got sick. Maybe the CCP shut down certain areas. Maybe they just lost work because of this and cut their budget... all might even be true, but that statistic in itself means nothing at all.

                              maybe 20 million out of 1.4 billion is not even a statistic to reasonably consider significant
                              Matthew 5:9 Blessed are the cheesemakers

                              That's right bitches. I'm blessed!

                              Comment

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