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  • #61
    Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
    Define mediocre care. What is different in the care?


    https://www.heritage.org/health-care...research-shows

    https://www.webmd.com/health-insuran...-with-medicare

    https://www.nasi.org/learn/medicare/gaps-medicare

    As an personal aside, the wife became eligible for Medicare coverage about two years ago. She made a mistake on a submitted form and we've been dealing with that for over a year now with no resolution. While it's one case, it demonstrates how labyrinthine dealing with a huge government bureaucracy is. Blue Cross / Blue Shield our normal provider resolves problems within a week or two at the most. Government health care in a word SUCKS.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
      Wrong. The problem with our healthcare system is because it's a for-profit system. And corporations are price gouging consumers. Every advanced society has better healthcare than we do and they pay a lot less for it.
      Corporate apologists are trained to disagree with middle class policies.
      Damn. It’s all so simple. If it weren’t for corporations, the Drs, and nurses would all work for free. And there would be no costs to developing drugs either.
      Forgive me for my ignorance.
      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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      • #63
        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post



        https://www.heritage.org/health-care...research-shows

        https://www.webmd.com/health-insuran...-with-medicare

        https://www.nasi.org/learn/medicare/gaps-medicare

        As an personal aside, the wife became eligible for Medicare coverage about two years ago. She made a mistake on a submitted form and we've been dealing with that for over a year now with no resolution. While it's one case, it demonstrates how labyrinthine dealing with a huge government bureaucracy is. Blue Cross / Blue Shield our normal provider resolves problems within a week or two at the most. Government health care in a word SUCKS.


        None of the people you are dealing with really has an interest in doing a good job,
        They will not be fired.So there is little motivation to do a good job when you work for the government.
        A private business needs to deliver to its customers or it will go out of business. When a government agency fails to deliver it gets more money.

        In Illinois DCFS recently screwed up in a horrendous manner and a 5 year old child they were supposed to be keeping an eye on died of abuse by his parents (Look up AJ Freund)
        The end result is that DCFS is going to get more money.
        On the bright side, 2 of the incompetent government workers were fired.
        Last edited by Cambronnne; 26 Feb 20, 06:18.
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

          Damn. It’s all so simple. If it weren’t for corporations, the Drs, and nurses would all work for free. And there would be no costs to developing drugs either.
          Forgive me for my ignorance.
          The guy is evidently an Idiot, he thinks that everyone works for free, and no one, should be paid for the work they do.I hope he does, and when he starves to death I'll be there to shed tears for him.
          Trying hard to be the Man, that my Dog believes I am!

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          • #65
            Bernie is crazy and Biden is stupid.

            Which one does the Democrats want as their 'man' to go up against Trump?

            I almost feel sorry for the Democrats for having such a poor lineup...
            "Stand for the flag ~ Kneel for the fallen"

            "A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer." ~ Bruce Lee

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            • #66
              With the recent Bernie stating that he has favorable views of Fidel Castro I believe he has seriously hurt his chances here in my state of Florida, as theirs a lot of Cubans here who do not like that guy...

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              • #67
                Beware of people who don’t differentiate between a country that has protected individual rights and a country that is a dictatorship Canada is stuck with one of those scum f&cks in power at the moment and it isn’t pretty
                Sanders record alone should put off enough people so he shouldn’t have much of a chance getting votes from independents
                Last edited by Snowshoveler; 25 Feb 20, 21:33.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by Nebfer View Post
                  With the recent Bernie stating that he has favorable views of Fidel Castro I believe he has seriously hurt his chances here in my state of Florida, as theirs a lot of Cubans here who do not like that guy...
                  There's a lot of young voters though that will agree with Bernie, because of poor education and lies from the left.
                  The First Amendment applies to SMS, Emails, Blogs, online news, the Fourth applies to your cell phone, computer, and your car, but the Second only applies to muskets?

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Karri View Post

                    Universal healthcare could never work. Not in a million years. I mean, in USA. Everywhere else it works. But not in USA. Never. Just a logical impossibility. It's just not possible. If America enacts universal healthcare, and you earn one dollar - Bernie will come and take two dollars form you!
                    Universal healthcare does not work everywhere .
                    Besides, there is no relation between healthcare and the health condition of the population .Healthcare does not care about the population, about the patients, but only about itself .Double the budget of healthcare ,and the health of the population will not increase .

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
                      Yep, $20 for a box of kleenex next to your hospital bed? It's a corrupt for-profit system, the very heart of capitalism. Profit over everything else. And they've learned they can buy representatives in congress to get favorable treatment.
                      I agree that those charges are unreasonable, but part of that is to recover the costs of the free care hospitals are forced to dispense.
                      They cannot turn away people who show up in the E/R. It is odd that you either don’t know that or are pretending it isn’t a fact.
                      And if the patient is on some form of public aid, the hospital is reimbursed only what the government is willing to pay, not what the care actually costs.

                      A friend of mine is a family practice Dr. His practice limits the number of patients on public aid because they lose money on each visit from such a patient. That money must be recovered from other patients.
                      I would think that you would feel the need to understand how the process works, before lecturing us on it.
                      Maybe you shouldn’t rely on RW media for all your news. I understand they just spread propaganda.
                      Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                      Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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                      • #71
                        In terms of totality I would say the United States is the greatest country in the world right now. But we have underlying issues in our country. Americans don’t live as long as do citizens of other countries. Americans are not as happy as other people. We might have a big military and a great stock market along with the best professional sports in the world but their are issues.

                        We have brought up the Canadian healthcare system. There’s no doubt that the United States can learn a lot from Canada. Canadians on average live two years longer than Americans. Canadians on average are happier compared to Americans. There is much less gun violence in Canada. In Canada the prison rate is less than that of America.

                        Same day wait time for the doctor office is seven minutes less in Canada compared to the United States. In terms of cost there are health care costs in Canada but on average the Canadian pays half the healthcare costs that the American does. For the American out there Who wants to say well we don’t need to learn from Canada. In response We should learn from Canada as this is a fellow European Christian country. So all the writing is on the wall to learn from Canada. Whether one is an American liberal or an American conservative they should want to be like Canada.


                        In the end the Canadian healthcare system is better than the American healthcare system even though each system has its benefits and each system has its drawbacks. In a few categories the American healthcare system beats The Canadian healthcare system but in totality the Canadian healthcare system is better than the American healthcare system. Because in the end the Canadian lives two years longer on average compared to the American so in terms of healthcare Canada wins.

                        We see the main languages of Canada would be French and English. Well the main language in America is English but Spanish is quite popular so we have some similarities in terms of diversity so that’s a good thing.

                        Long live the Lionheart! Please watch this video
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=jRDwlR4zbEM
                        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3DBaY0RsxU
                        Accept the challenges so that you can feel the exhilaration of victory.

                        George S Patton

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                        • #72
                          Canada a European country ?

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                            In terms of totality I would say the United States is the greatest country in the world right now. (…)
                            Can you fit that on a red hat before your next election ?

                            I would buy a dozen right away, US politics needs a bit of nuance
                            Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                            Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post

                              but in totality the Canadian healthcare system is better than the American healthcare system. Because in the end the Canadian lives two years longer on average compared to the American so in terms of healthcare Canada wins.

                              There is no proof that the Canadian health system is better than the American one, besides, there is no such thing as a better health system .
                              If Canadians live two years longer than Americans, that is not because of their health system .The aim of a health system is NOT to make people healthier . It is to have more money, more staff and more power .At the cost of the taxpayer .

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Stonewall_Jack View Post
                                In terms of totality I would say the United States is the greatest country in the world right now. But we have underlying issues in our country. Americans don’t live as long as do citizens of other countries. Americans are not as happy as other people. We might have a big military and a great stock market along with the best professional sports in the world but their are issues.

                                We have brought up the Canadian healthcare system. There’s no doubt that the United States can learn a lot from Canada. Canadians on average live two years longer than Americans. Canadians on average are happier compared to Americans. There is much less gun violence in Canada. In Canada the prison rate is less than that of America.

                                Same day wait time for the doctor office is seven minutes less in Canada compared to the United States. In terms of cost there are health care costs in Canada but on average the Canadian pays half the healthcare costs that the American does. For the American out there Who wants to say well we don’t need to learn from Canada. In response We should learn from Canada as this is a fellow European Christian country. So all the writing is on the wall to learn from Canada. Whether one is an American liberal or an American conservative they should want to be like Canada.


                                In the end the Canadian healthcare system is better than the American healthcare system even though each system has its benefits and each system has its drawbacks. In a few categories the American healthcare system beats The Canadian healthcare system but in totality the Canadian healthcare system is better than the American healthcare system. Because in the end the Canadian lives two years longer on average compared to the American so in terms of healthcare Canada wins.

                                We see the main languages of Canada would be French and English. Well the main language in America is English but Spanish is quite popular so we have some similarities in terms of diversity so that’s a good thing.
                                If you are going to compare healthcare systems you have to recognize that life expectancy is not a measure of the quality of healthcare.
                                Life expectancy is a measure of all the risks faced over a person's lifetime. Using that as a basis to compare healthcare is dishonest.

                                A higher rate of deaths due to violence or accidents or poor diet will lower the overall life expectancy. It should be obvious that violence and accidents and poor diet are not the result of poor medical care.
                                If you want to compare the quality of healthcare systems you should rely on things like survival rates from serious disease.
                                Such as cancer. I did a search on "Cancer survival rates US v. Canada but was unable to find a good analysis of any differences in rates. Regardless, numerous articles noted that the cancer survival rates for the US and canada are the highest in the world. That would seem to contradict your claim about the inadequacy of US healthcare.

                                If you are going to claim that canda's healthcare is better then you should rely on statistics that address actual helathcare outcomes rather than something that really has nothing to do with healthcare.
                                By the way, infant mortality rates are also not a measure of the quality of healthcare.



                                You claim that the wait times in the dr's office are 7 minutes less than in the US. I'm not sure what that is intended to establish about the quality of care. especially when you conside it apparently takes far longer to just get into the Dr's office.

                                The research think-tank released a new report Thursday, Waiting Your Turn: Wait Times for Health Care in Canada, 2017, and found the median wait time in 2017 is 21.2 weeks – the longest ever recorded. By comparison, Canadians waited 9.3 weeks in 1993 when the Institute first started reporting on wait times for medical treatments.
                                https://torontosun.com/news/national...aser-institute


                                I guess if my wait in the office is 7 minutes less, waiting all those extra weeks becomes worth it.

                                More on wait times
                                After being advised that they need a procedure done, only about 35 percent of Canadians had their surgery within a month, whereas in the United States, 61 percent did. After four months, about 97 percent of Americans were able to have their surgery, whereas Canada struggled to achieve 80 percent.
                                https://fee.org/articles/america-out...ot-even-close/
                                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

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