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  • #46
    Originally posted by Karri View Post
    https://www.wthr.com/article/verify-...mes-over-29000

    "No, Sanders has never suggested that. He has previously suggested a 52% tax rate, but only on income over $10 million."
    Bernie is bad at math.

    http://www.crfb.org/papers/adding-se...oposals-so-far

    Bernie is a weak ineffectual man who has enriched himself on the tax payers back and used his campaign to funnel money to his wife. The same genius woman who financially ruined a college.

    https://nationalfile.com/bernie-camp...-bernies-wife/

    https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...ollege/482973/

    He is the original social justice warrior, confused, uninformed, emotionally incontinent, and ideologically possessed. The Democratic Party deserves nothing better.
    We hunt the hunters

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Trung Si View Post
      Trump is absolutely correct calling him that, the old guy is crazy, and I hope he becomes the democrat's nominee with his crazy,, un-affordable ideas, people will see it for what it is, pure BS, Trump will beat him like a Drum!
      You think Bernie is crazier than Trump?
      Give me one policy Bernie has suggested that is un-affordable? What's your main one? (please make sure your response is accurate)

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
        You think Bernie is crazier than Trump?
        Give me one policy Bernie has suggested that is un-affordable? What's your main one? (please make sure your response is accurate)
        "Experts estimate that Sanders' major proposals would cost a staggering $60 trillion and would double the size of the government (while his tax plans fall $27 trillion short of paying for it).
        https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/polit...020/index.html

        That $60 trillion number comes from The Atlantic's Ron Brownstein, a CNN contributor, who broke down the costs of Sanders' proposals like "Medicare for All," the "Green New Deal" and free tuition at public colleges and arrived at that stunning price tag.
        https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/polit...020/index.html
        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post

          "Experts estimate that Sanders' major proposals would cost a staggering $60 trillion and would double the size of the government (while his tax plans fall $27 trillion short of paying for it).
          https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/polit...020/index.html

          That $60 trillion number comes from The Atlantic's Ron Brownstein, a CNN contributor, who broke down the costs of Sanders' proposals like "Medicare for All," the "Green New Deal" and free tuition at public colleges and arrived at that stunning price tag.
          https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/24/polit...020/index.html
          That's multiple policies. Sounds like you aren't in favor of medicare for all. Is that unaffordable?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
            That's multiple policies. Sounds like you aren't in favor of medicare for all. Is that unaffordable?
            Universal healthcare could never work. Not in a million years. I mean, in USA. Everywhere else it works. But not in USA. Never. Just a logical impossibility. It's just not possible. If America enacts universal healthcare, and you earn one dollar - Bernie will come and take two dollars form you!
            Wisdom is personal

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
              That's multiple policies. Sounds like you aren't in favor of medicare for all. Is that unaffordable?


              Your weak attempt to avoid the fact that even dems and CNN say Bernie's polices are unaffordable is noted.
              I honeslty laughed at that effort.

              I also laughed at your effort to try and make it about me and change the subject.



              Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

              Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Karri View Post

                Universal healthcare could never work. Not in a million years. I mean, in USA. Everywhere else it works. But not in USA. Never. Just a logical impossibility. It's just not possible. If America enacts universal healthcare, and you earn one dollar - Bernie will come and take two dollars form you!


                We have forms of government run healthcare.
                VA
                Medicare
                Medicaid
                Public aid.

                Few people want that kind of coverage because, in part, there is no good or service that the government can deliver more effectively or efficeintly than its private sector equivalent.

                The quaility of our care is excellent and if we rely on cancer survival rates it is superior to what is available under socialized medicine.
                The only problem with our system is that it is expensive.

                Anecdotally,
                I recently had foot surgery.
                It was not an emergency. I saw the Dr. for the first time on saturday and the surgery was on wednesday.
                I'm finding it hard to complain about that level of service.

                Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Karri View Post

                  Universal healthcare could never work. Not in a million years. I mean, in USA. Everywhere else it works. But not in USA. Never. Just a logical impossibility. It's just not possible. If America enacts universal healthcare, and you earn one dollar - Bernie will come and take two dollars form you!
                  Wrong. The problem with our healthcare system is because it's a for-profit system. And corporations are price gouging consumers. Every advanced society has better healthcare than we do and they pay a lot less for it.
                  Corporate apologists are trained to disagree with middle class policies.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post



                    Your weak attempt to avoid the fact that even dems and CNN say Bernie's polices are unaffordable is noted.
                    I honeslty laughed at that effort.

                    I also laughed at your effort to try and make it about me and change the subject.


                    So now you like CNN? If Bernie's plan isn't affordable, then changes should be made. But you know as well as I do that the source you mentioned wasn't the final say on the issue and total amount of cost.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
                      Wrong. The problem with our healthcare system is because it's a for-profit system. And corporations are price gouging consumers. Every advanced society has better healthcare than we do and they pay a lot less for it.
                      Corporate apologists are trained to disagree with middle class policies.
                      No, the problem is that the system relies on indirect payment and the costs are hidden from the consumer. In both socialized health care and in a third party pays (eg., insurance) system the consumer has little reason to be frugal or make good choices about service and care based on cost and efficiency.

                      Consumers are gouging consumers. The corporations are just charging what they have to to make a reasonable profit. Some insurers are non-profit, like Blue Cross / Blue Shield as well. They still charge fairly high rates simply because the costs are high.

                      And, that insurance is in the loop adds unnecessary costs to every doctor visit you make. Paperwork and the bureaucrats that do it aren't free. Given that government bureaucrats are about the most inefficient, costs of administering a government program will rise and make the system more expensive and less responsive.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                        No, the problem is that the system relies on indirect payment and the costs are hidden from the consumer. In both socialized health care and in a third party pays (eg., insurance) system the consumer has little reason to be frugal or make good choices about service and care based on cost and efficiency.

                        Consumers are gouging consumers. The corporations are just charging what they have to to make a reasonable profit. Some insurers are non-profit, like Blue Cross / Blue Shield as well. They still charge fairly high rates simply because the costs are high.

                        And, that insurance is in the loop adds unnecessary costs to every doctor visit you make. Paperwork and the bureaucrats that do it aren't free. Given that government bureaucrats are about the most inefficient, costs of administering a government program will rise and make the system more expensive and less responsive.
                        And why do you think the costs are so high compared to other countries with these types of healthcare systems?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
                          Wrong. The problem with our healthcare system is because it's a for-profit system. And corporations are price gouging consumers. Every advanced society has better healthcare than we do and they pay a lot less for it.
                          Corporate apologists are trained to disagree with middle class policies.
                          It is what we call sarcasm!

                          Anyways, my wife works for an american medical device company. She showed me some device that costs 20 dollars to make and 20 000 dollars when it gets to the hands of the doctors. R&D costs are a thing, but the profit margins in these things are beyond belief.
                          Wisdom is personal

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Karri View Post

                            It is what we call sarcasm!

                            Anyways, my wife works for an american medical device company. She showed me some device that costs 20 dollars to make and 20 000 dollars when it gets to the hands of the doctors. R&D costs are a thing, but the profit margins in these things are beyond belief.
                            Yep, $20 for a box of kleenex next to your hospital bed? It's a corrupt for-profit system, the very heart of capitalism. Profit over everything else. And they've learned they can buy representatives in congress to get favorable treatment.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post

                              And why do you think the costs are so high compared to other countries with these types of healthcare systems?
                              Because when it's a monopoly, you can ration care. Also, the government can mandate the allowable payments, as they do with Medicare now. Many providers in the US won't accept Medicare patients because the payment schedule is less than their cost to provide the service.

                              Medicare’s reimbursement rates can be as low as $58 for a 15 minute office visit. According to The WSJ article, doctors are saying that those kinds of rates force them to see 30 or more patients a day simply to stay afloat.
                              https://www.healthitoutcomes.com/doc...-patients-0001

                              Thanks to the federal program’s low reimbursement rates, stringent rules, and grueling paperwork process, many doctors are refusing to accept Medicare’s payment for services. Case in point: In 2000, nearly 80% of the Texas Medical Association’s doctors were taking new Medicare patients. By 2012, that number dropped to less than 60%.
                              https://www.investopedia.com/article...e-medicare.asp

                              So, by artificially forcing the market to lower costs you get mediocre care and create scarcity.


                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                                Because when it's a monopoly, you can ration care. Also, the government can mandate the allowable payments, as they do with Medicare now. Many providers in the US won't accept Medicare patients because the payment schedule is less than their cost to provide the service.



                                https://www.healthitoutcomes.com/doc...-patients-0001



                                https://www.investopedia.com/article...e-medicare.asp

                                So, by artificially forcing the market to lower costs you get mediocre care and create scarcity.

                                Define mediocre care. What is different in the care?

                                Comment

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