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  • Students Hate Trump SOTU Quotes

    Until they hear the quotes are from the 2020 dem candidates:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...ature=emb_logo
    "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

  • #2
    Makes an argument for having to take a test to get a license to vote.
    ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
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    • #3
      Why note? You have to take one to get a license to drive.
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
        Makes an argument for having to take a test to get a license to vote.

        How about a license to own guns, have babies, speak publicly?

        Maybe not, right?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
          Makes an argument for having to take a test to get a license to vote.
          Test, not so much. Reform our public education to stop churning out morons, yes.

          Though it does lend credence to those who wanted to tie the right to vote to ownership of property. Which I disagree with. Or Heinleins concept of a separation between Civilians and Citizens....which I agree with.
          Tacitos, Satrap of Kyrene

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          • #6
            Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post

            Test, not so much. Reform our public education to stop churning out morons, yes.

            Though it does lend credence to those who wanted to tie the right to vote to ownership of property. Which I disagree with. Or Heinleins concept of a separation between Civilians and Citizens....which I agree with.
            As to civilians vs.citizens...I say bring back Civics as a high school Social Studies requirement...4 years of it.
            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
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            • #7
              Originally posted by Phaing View Post


              How about a license to own guns, have babies, speak publicly?

              Maybe not, right?
              The Constitution covers the right to speak freely and the right to own a gun. It says nothing about any "right" to have children. A lot of people I have seen should not reproduce. Lousy human beings make lousy parents. And there is nothing in the Constitution requiring the rest of us to pay for their mistakes.

              So yes, if you need a license to drive a car, you need an education and a license to create another human being.
              Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                As to civilians vs.citizens...I say bring back Civics as a high school Social Studies requirement...4 years of it.
                And just who would teach that class? A few generations have already passed, since that course was mandatory. I doubt that you would recognize what seemingly pass as current civic duty. Any teachers who taught civics previously would have long since retired.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by TacCovert4 View Post
                  Or Heinleins concept of a separation between Civilians and Citizens....which I agree with.
                  This ?

                  https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewto...?f=20&t=972357

                  In the book Starship Troopers, Heinlein suggests a system in which only citizens are allowed to vote and the easiest way to become a citizen is to serve in the government/military/public service. The idea behind it is a very solid one, that responsibility and freedom must always go hand in hand, and preferably be as balanced as possible. In his system, the freedom to vote was balanced against the responsibility the veterans had already demonstrated in being willing to serve and risk their lives to protect the system.
                  What are the other ways to promote from "civilian" to "citizen" according to Heinlein ?


                  Lambert of Montaigu - Crusader.

                  Bolgios - Mercenary Game.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
                    And just who would teach that class? A few generations have already passed, since that course was mandatory. I doubt that you would recognize what seemingly pass as current civic duty. Any teachers who taught civics previously would have long since retired.
                    Although, as you say, "a few generations have passed", since we taught civics as a separate course, elements of it have been passed down through current class choices like US History II, Current Practices, and especially Law and Government. The concepts have not changed through the years. A 'pure' Civics course would not just teach the 'rules for citizenship' but also be invaluable to visualize proper behavior, comportment, civility and etiquette to these new generations of increasingly polarized, socially elite, and overly entitled children.
                    Last edited by Jose50; 05 Feb 20, 08:58.
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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                      Although, as you say, "a few generations have passed", since we taught civics as a separate course, elements of it have been passed down through current class choices like US History II, Current Practices, and especially Law and Government. The concepts have not changed through the years.
                      You also have a school system that is allowed to teach 'creationism' as a credible theory alongside 'man-made climate change.'

                      Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                      A 'pure' Civics course would not just teach the 'rules for citizenship' but also be invaluable to visualize proper behavior, comportment, civility and etiquette to these new generations of increasingly polarized, socially elite, and overly entitled children.
                      You have far too great a belief in the educational system. Although children predominantly spend most of their day within the confines of a school, these values are (should) probably best taught by the parents. Leave the technical subjects that most parents are not familiar to the professional teachers, but any adult can teach civility and etiquette (provided they actually know them.)
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Snowygerry View Post
                        https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewto...?f=20&t=972357

                        In the book Starship Troopers, Heinlein suggests a system in which only citizens are allowed to vote and the easiest way to become a citizen is to serve in the government/military/public service. The idea behind it is a very solid one, that responsibility and freedom must always go hand in hand, and preferably be as balanced as possible. In his system, the freedom to vote was balanced against the responsibility the veterans had already demonstrated in being willing to serve and risk their lives to protect the system.
                        Starship Troopers was a book that focused upon military service, but the underlying principle was Federal Service. Anyone could qualify; from the healthiest soldier to the most infirm quadripalegic. Candidates would be required to serve a challenging term made to be as nearly intolerable as possible in order to make the future citizen candidate appreciate the cost and value of his earned franchise.

                        Not everyone had to face death in the defence of his nation in order to win his franchise.
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post
                          You also have a school system that is allowed to teach 'creationism' as a credible theory alongside 'man-made climate change.'
                          Yes, but that particular school system is located primarily in what's known as the Bible Belt where the term 'man-made climate change' has no meaning.
                          ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Herman Hum View Post

                            You have far too great a belief in the educational system. Although children predominantly spend most of their day within the confines of a school, these values are (should) probably best taught by the parents. Leave the technical subjects that most parents are not familiar to the professional teachers, but any adult can teach civility and etiquette (provided they actually know them.)
                            Unfortunately, the educational system has taken on the role of "in loco parentis" to a degree that some parents, upon leaving their child at the school door, feel that their job is done.
                            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                            IN MARE IN COELO

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Jose50 View Post
                              Unfortunately, the educational system has taken on the role of "in loco parentis" to a degree that some parents, upon leaving their child at the school door, feel that their job is done.
                              Sad, but true; which is why the idea of scholastic civic eduation will ultimately fail.
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