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Trump clemency moves won’t hurt military order, top DoD officials pledge

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

    He wasn't convicted of killing the captive. Not all of his fellow Seals testified against him and the ones that did were given immunity for their testimony.
    Question, Why did they need immunity?

    .


    It was because of one SEAL's testimony that he was saved.

    Good question! One can only speculate:

    Perhaps he outsmarted the prosecutors by making them think that his "revelation" would be useful to them while in reality, he was planning to help his buddy who by the way, (as the story goes) was willing to remain silent and risk go to jail instead of revealing the identity of the real killer who chose to remain silent and let somebody else take the risk to go to jail.

    I see as a more plausible scenario that the witness who testified under immunity was bribed to testify that it was him who killed the prisoner, and devised a clever plan which was effective in outsmarting the prosecutors and deliver his testimony without suffering any consequences.

    But all of the above scenarios are irrelevant to the war crime about which the defendant was convicted. That was undeniable because they had the photo with him posing with the dead body.

    p.s. I also think that the prosecutors wanted to make sure that if some witnesses were engaged with less serious war crimes, that this would not deter them from revealing the truth in court regarding what happened.
    Last edited by pamak; 12 Dec 19, 21:32.
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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    • #17
      Originally posted by pamak View Post


      .
      It was not "ones."

      It was one.

      Good question! One can only speculate:

      Perhaps he outsmarted the prosecutors by making them think that his "revelation" would be useful to them while in reality, he was planning to help his buddy who by the way, (as the story goes) was willing to remain silent and risk go to jail instead of revealing the identity of the real killer who chose to remain silent and let somebody else take the risk to go to jail for the killer's actions.

      I see as a more plausible scenario that the witness who testified under immunity was bribed to testify that it was him who killed the prisoner, and devised a clever plan which was effective in outsmarting the prosecutors and deliver his testimony without suffering any consequences.

      But all of the above scenarios are irrelevant to the war crime about which the defendant was convicted. That was undeniable because they had the photo with him posing with the dead body.
      I agree he should not have posed with the dead body, but he was found innocent of the murder charge.
      However I will admit I have no sympathy for ISIS, al Qaida, or Taliban terrorist.
      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

        I agree he should not have posed with the dead body, but he was found innocent of the murder charge.
        However I will admit I have no sympathy for ISIS, al Qaida, or Taliban terrorist.
        I added something at the end regarding your question:

        p.s. I also think that the prosecutors wanted to make sure that if some witnesses were engaged with less serious war crimes, that this would not deter them from revealing the truth in court regarding what happened.

        By the way, from what I recall, the one witness who testified to defend the commander actually changed his testimony. So, he said something else during the initial investigation and then at some point during the trial he changed his testimony.

        Anyway, the consequences that were revoked were related to the crime for which he was convicted. And it was not that he was going to go to prison.
        My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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        • #19
          Originally posted by pamak View Post

          I added something at the end regarding your question:

          p.s. I also think that the prosecutors wanted to make sure that if some witnesses were engaged with less serious war crimes, that this would not deter them from revealing the truth in court regarding what happened.

          By the way, from what I recall, the one witness who testified to defend the commander actually changed his testimony. So, he said something else during the initial investigation and then at some point during the trial he changed his testimony.

          Anyway, the consequences that were revoked were related to the crime for which he was convicted. And it was not that he was going to go to prison.
          You have every right to your opinion.
          The OP is not really about the case, is it? It is about the impact of Trumps pardon.
          Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
          Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

            You have every right to your opinion.
            The OP is not really about the case, is it? It is about the impact of Trumps pardon.
            Indeed!

            And I am sure that the military leaders will do their best to make sure that Trump's pardon will not affect discipline. But I doubt that anybody is in a position to predict the future.
            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by pamak View Post

              Indeed!

              And I am sure that the military leaders will do their best to make sure that Trump's pardon will not affect discipline. But I doubt that anybody is in a position to predict the future.
              Thank you for an honest answer, I so not believe moral will be damaged by Trumps action.
              I believe that in the near future we will shift away from Afghanistan and start interfering with South Asia again. The Pentagon may think enough Vietnam witnesses are old enough to forget our last excursions and the younger citizens do not study history anymore so they can easily be led by the nose.
              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post

                He wasn't convicted of killing the captive. Not all of his fellow Seals testified against him and the ones that did were given immunity for their testimony.
                Question, Why did they need immunity?
                Apparently they were complicit in "what he didn't do".
                Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post

                  Apparently they were complicit in "what he didn't do".
                  Or they did the deed and pinned it on him. The judge was not happy when he discovered the prosecution with held evidence, something everyone seems to forget
                  Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                  Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                  Comment

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