Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Big Brother is Watching

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Big Brother is Watching

    We Just Got a Rare Look at National Security Surveillance. It Was Ugly.

    ...
    WASHINGTON — When a long-awaited inspector general report about the F.B.I.’s Russia investigation became public this week, partisans across the political spectrum mined it to argue about whether President Trump falsely smeared the F.B.I. or was its victim. But the report was also important for reasons that had nothing to do with Mr. Trump.

    At more than 400 pages, the study amounted to the most searching look ever at the government’s secretive system for carrying out national-security surveillance on American soil. And what the report showed was not pretty.

    While clearing the F.B.I. of acting out of political bias, the Justice Department’s independent inspector general, Michael E. Horowitz, and his team uncovered a staggeringly dysfunctional and error-ridden process in how the F.B.I. went about obtaining and renewing court permission under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, to wiretap Carter Page, a former Trump campaign adviser.

    “The litany of problems with the Carter Page surveillance applications demonstrates how the secrecy shrouding the government’s one-sided FISA approval process breeds abuse,” said Hina Shamsi, the director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Security Project. “The concerns the inspector general identifies apply to intrusive investigations of others, including especially Muslims, and far better safeguards against abuse are necessary.”

    Congress enacted FISA in 1978 to regulate domestic surveillance for national-security investigations — monitoring suspected spies and terrorists, as opposed to ordinary criminals. Investigators must persuade a judge on a special court that a target is probably an agent of a foreign power. In 2018, there were 1,833 targets of such orders, including 232 Americans.

    Most of those targets never learn that their privacy has been invaded, but some are sent to prison on the basis of evidence derived from the surveillance. And unlike in ordinary criminal wiretap cases, defendants are not permitted to see what investigators told the court about them to obtain permission to eavesdrop on their calls and emails.

    Civil libertarians for years have called the surveillance court a rubber stamp because it only rarely rejects wiretap applications. Out of 1,080 requests by the government in 2018, for example, government records showed that the court fully denied only one.
    ...
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...gly/ar-AAK1QRS
    TANSTAAFL = There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch

  • #2
    Originally posted by G David Bock View Post
    We Just Got a Rare Look at National Security Surveillance. It Was Ugly.

    ...
    WASHINGTON — When a long-awaited inspector general report about the F.B.I.’s Russia investigation became public this week, partisans across the political spectrum mined it to argue about whether President Trump falsely smeared the F.B.I. or was its victim. But the report was also important for reasons that had nothing to do with Mr. Trump.

    At more than 400 pages, the study amounted to the most searching look ever at the government’s secretive system for carrying out national-security surveillance on American soil. And what the report showed was not pretty.

    While clearing the F.B.I. of acting out of political bias, the Justice Department’s independent inspector general, Michael E. Horowitz, and his team uncovered a staggeringly dysfunctional and error-ridden process in how the F.B.I. went about obtaining and renewing court permission under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, or FISA, to wiretap Carter Page, a former Trump campaign adviser.

    “The litany of problems with the Carter Page surveillance applications demonstrates how the secrecy shrouding the government’s one-sided FISA approval process breeds abuse,” said Hina Shamsi, the director of the American Civil Liberties Union’s National Security Project. “The concerns the inspector general identifies apply to intrusive investigations of others, including especially Muslims, and far better safeguards against abuse are necessary.”

    Congress enacted FISA in 1978 to regulate domestic surveillance for national-security investigations — monitoring suspected spies and terrorists, as opposed to ordinary criminals. Investigators must persuade a judge on a special court that a target is probably an agent of a foreign power. In 2018, there were 1,833 targets of such orders, including 232 Americans.

    Most of those targets never learn that their privacy has been invaded, but some are sent to prison on the basis of evidence derived from the surveillance. And unlike in ordinary criminal wiretap cases, defendants are not permitted to see what investigators told the court about them to obtain permission to eavesdrop on their calls and emails.

    Civil libertarians for years have called the surveillance court a rubber stamp because it only rarely rejects wiretap applications. Out of 1,080 requests by the government in 2018, for example, government records showed that the court fully denied only one.
    ...
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...gly/ar-AAK1QRS
    Actually, the NSA's activities has been criticized since the pass of the Patriot Act. Snowden's leaks also revealed the problem of the "Big Brother Watching" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global...%80%93present)
    My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

    Comment


    • #3
      Been this way for quite awhile, and worse with the advent of the digital cellphone, which can be listened to by literally anyone, anywhere, at any time. And now we have the digital household and the digital world, and a landscape packed with surveillance cameras, and computers that rec0rd every choice we make when we perform a public transaction, all of which can be easily accessed.

      This is yet another reason why I chose to live out in the boonies. I don't have anything to hide, but I don't approve of being constantly watched and listened to with very little judicial oversight or approval. Before very much longer, I think the situation will get out of control and we'll be right smack in the middle of Orwell's 1984.

      Of course, you could easily argue that we are there right now.
      Last edited by Mountain Man; 11 Dec 19, 17:07. Reason: spelling error
      Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes? Who is watching the watchers?

      Comment


      • #4
        This is the tip of the ice berg, Anyone who thinks US intelligence agencies are not hacking every social media platform and creating profiles of citizens is beyond naïve, and they aren't the only government doing so.
        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

        Comment


        • #5
          This is why I wanted to vote for Rand Paul. But, Americans don't value freedom anymore so here we are.

          This report doesn't present anything new or surprising. These are all things we already knew was going on, yet no one cares enough to do anything about it. In fact, they even support it by bashing guys like Snowden and Assange.
          "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
          - Benjamin Franklin

          The new right wing: hate Muslims, preaches tolerance for Nazis.

          Comment


          • #6
            Well, the way I see it, if you aren't on a government watch list, you're doing it wrong...

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
              This is the tip of the ice berg, Anyone who thinks US intelligence agencies are not hacking every social media platform and creating profiles of citizens is beyond naïve, and they aren't the only government doing so.
              The proof from the organizations doing so.
              https://nsa.gov1.info/data/

              5G technology, manufactured by the Chinese, will only make it easier for them to spy and hack into our infrastructure.
              https://www.newyorker.com/news/annal...the-5g-network
              “Breaking News,”

              “Something irrelevant in your life just happened and now we are going to blow it all out of proportion for days to keep you distracted from what's really going on.”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                This is the tip of the ice berg, Anyone who thinks US intelligence agencies are not hacking every social media platform and creating profiles of citizens is beyond naïve, and they aren't the only government doing so.
                Watch out for the black helicopters...
                We are not now that strength which in old days
                Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TactiKill J. View Post
                  This is why I wanted to vote for Rand Paul. But, Americans don't value freedom anymore so here we are.

                  This report doesn't present anything new or surprising. These are all things we already knew was going on, yet no one cares enough to do anything about it. In fact, they even support it by bashing guys like Snowden and Assange.
                  Rand Paul is almost as ignorant and stupid as his father. He is virulently against the US armed forces which is ridiculous. And for all his so-called 'libertarianism' he is a supporter of Trump and his 'policies' which makes him basically anti-Constitution.
                  We are not now that strength which in old days
                  Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                  Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                  To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You lot are so 'scared' of big brother, yet you support Trump who is a serial liar and the least 'transparent' of any recent president. He's named himself 'the chosen one' and has stated that Article II of the US Constitution allows him to do anything he wants. You let that go without a whimper.

                    Democracy dies in darkness and the presidency is in its darkest time now. And you support Trump. Absolutely incredible as well as hypocritical.
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Massena View Post
                      You lot are so 'scared' of big brother, yet you support Trump who is a serial liar and the least 'transparent' of any recent president. He's named himself 'the chosen one' and has stated that Article II of the US Constitution allows him to do anything he wants. You let that go without a whimper.

                      Democracy dies in darkness and the presidency is in its darkest time now. And you support Trump. Absolutely incredible as well as hypocritical.
                      The NSA has been collecting data since long before Trump, Now we not only have our government collecting data on us, but other governments doing so.
                      Beyond that FC and Google collect so much data that can be hacked into by anyone. It is rather a moot point.
                      Under Bush and Obama the NSA expanded it's number of data collecting centers with the sole goal of collecting our emails and, texts, and cell phone conversations, why?
                      Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                      Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Massena View Post

                        Watch out for the black helicopters...
                        Laugh all you want. You trust the government. I don't, You fear one president, while trusting those congressmen and senators who have sat on their hands for decades while agencies like the CIA, NSA and others have increased their spying on us,
                        Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                        Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Massena
                          Originally posted by Urban hermit View Post
                          Laugh all you want. You trust the government. I don't, You fear one president, while trusting those congressmen and senators who have sat on their hands for decades while agencies like the CIA, NSA and others have increased their spying on us,
                          I don't fear anyone
                          For a guy who doesn't fear anyone, you sure are single-minded about a sole individual. Within the last forty-eight hours you've opened "Trump The Bully," "The Kind of President that Our Founders Feared," and "Why is Trump Meeting With the Russian Foreign Minister." If you're not afraid of Trump, then clearly you're obsessed with the man.

                          Originally posted by Massena
                          and your anti-government positions make you a laughing-stock as well as acting in a paranoid manner.
                          Did you say the same thing when the Church Committee was revealing MK Ultra? Why do you assume that government always acts in good faith on behalf of the governed, especially when the record proves the polar opposite?

                          Originally posted by Massena
                          The person acting scared is you. I don't trust Trump and he personally disgusts me and he is hurting the country by his actions and words.
                          I've said it before and I'll say it again: Trump is not a revolutionary figure. He's an evolutionary figure. There's nothing that Trump has done since announcing his candidacy that wasn't done by some previous President. Not a thing. The sleaziness, the lies, the thin skin, the adolescent immaturity -- each have their precedent, set by his predecessors. It only stands to reason that a newcomer like Trump would think those characteristics beneficial to a President: they've been beneficial to every President since FDR, if not earlier. Does any of that excuse Trump? Certainly not: he's as responsible for his conduct as you or I -- or at least he should be. That being said, to harp on endlessly about the Oval Office's current occupant while not even pausing to acknowledge the fact that his predecessors did much the same appears to border on the pathological. It's definitely got me scratching my head, that's for sure.
                          I was married for two ******* years! Hell would be like Club Med! - Sam Kinison

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by slick_miester View Post

                            For a guy who doesn't fear anyone, you sure are single-minded about a sole individual. Within the last forty-eight hours you've opened "Trump The Bully," "The Kind of President that Our Founders Feared," and "Why is Trump Meeting With the Russian Foreign Minister." If you're not afraid of Trump, then clearly you're obsessed with the man.



                            Did you say the same thing when the Church Committee was revealing MK Ultra? Why do you assume that government always acts in good faith on behalf of the governed, especially when the record proves the polar opposite?



                            I've said it before and I'll say it again: Trump is not a revolutionary figure. He's an evolutionary figure. There's nothing that Trump has done since announcing his candidacy that wasn't done by some previous President. Not a thing. The sleaziness, the lies, the thin skin, the adolescent immaturity -- each have their precedent, set by his predecessors. It only stands to reason that a newcomer like Trump would think those characteristics beneficial to a President: they've been beneficial to every President since FDR, if not earlier. Does any of that excuse Trump? Certainly not: he's as responsible for his conduct as you or I -- or at least he should be. That being said, to harp on endlessly about the Oval Office's current occupant while not even pausing to acknowledge the fact that his predecessors did much the same appears to border on the pathological. It's definitely got me scratching my head, that's for sure.
                            The difference I would suggest is the Congress in the past had some backbone and would stand up for the institution. The lack of Trump being held accountable by his own party is what is difference.

                            I mean not having guys testify before congress is a fairly major step at least at the scale trump is doing it. So as I keep saying we have learned that in the future no president has to work with congress.

                            The president can declare an emergency and spend money however he want

                            Before it was the nuts in either party who would always go to the mat for the president now it is most if not all the guys in congress doing it. It bodes ill for us in the long run

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by craven View Post

                              The difference I would suggest is the Congress in the past had some backbone and would stand up for the institution. The lack of Trump being held accountable by his own party is what is difference.

                              I mean not having guys testify before congress is a fairly major step at least at the scale trump is doing it. So as I keep saying we have learned that in the future no president has to work with congress.

                              The president can declare an emergency and spend money however he want

                              Before it was the nuts in either party who would always go to the mat for the president now it is most if not all the guys in congress doing it. It bodes ill for us in the long run
                              You mean like when Eric Holder gave military weapons to Mexican drug cartels, weapons that were used to kill US Border Patrol officers in the US?
                              And while the congressional committee investigating his action the democrats lead by Pelosi walked out? You mean like that?
                              Or do you mean the way both the Obama White House and Eric Holder ignore the subpoenas issued by the congressional committee?
                              Dispite our best intentions, the system is dysfunctional that intelligence failure is guaranteed.
                              Russ Travers, CIA analyst, 2001

                              Comment

                              Latest Topics

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X