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  • #76
    Pamak is absolutely correct, that such a premise should even be a matter of debate is yet another example of nauseating revisionist history that RUSSIAN TROLLS like to plant.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post
      Pamak is absolutely correct, that such a premise should even be a matter of debate is yet another example of nauseating revisionist history that RUSSIAN TROLLS like to plant.
      Nonsense : the SPD delegates were NOT threatened : they could vote against Hitler .They did so . Their president could attack Hitler. He did so .
      BTW ,calling everyone who disagrees with you proves where the democratic side is and where the totalitarian side is .

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Sparlingo View Post


        Well to be technical I perhaps should have said that Hitler was appointed as Chancellor by President Hindenburg following normal parliamentary rules and conventions after the 1932 election. It would seem odd though if instead of saying Trudeau got elected in 2015 I instead said the Governor General appointed Trudeau as Prime Minister following normal parliamentary rules and conventions after the 2015 election, yet the two processes are essentially the same. The point I was taking issue with was that Snowgerry was saying that someone like Trump couldn't be elected in any other Western Democracy. I don't think other countries should be so smug about that, it could happen.
        This is wrong : the first Hitler government had NO majority in the Reichstag ,it was as his three predecessors a presidential cabinet that was dependent on the support of the president who was using article 48 of the constitution that allowed him to govern with emergency decrets .
        That's why Hitler wanted elections who would give him a parliamentary majority : he knew what happened to Bruning, Papen and Schleicher who were eliminated by court intrigues and he did not want to suffer the same fate . Hitler was not appointed following normal parliamentary rules .
        Hitler's government was an emergency government depending on the president .

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        • #79
          Originally posted by pamak View Post

          No sources or argument again to explain the absence of more than 100 representatives who did not vote for an important Act which gave Hitler a free hand to ignore the Reichstag.

          I do not care about your claims and what you read, and you are just debasing a historical forum with your unsubstantiated nonsense which do not pass the test of logic !

          And do not give me irrelevant dates with arrests that have nothing to do with the intimidation on the March of 1933 I am talking about.

          Also, any mildly educated in history person can see the flaw of your "research" and "argument."

          It does NOT matter if you find evidence of a couple or even if all SPD members avoided any consequences as a result of their vote against the Enabling Act. The fact is that AT THE TIME OF THE VOTE, the participants could see about 100 representatives missing and they could NOT know what consequences could come out of their decision to oppose the pass of the enabling Act. So, any argument to dismiss the presence of intimidation in March 1933 based on what happened in 4 SPD members in later years is absurd.

          By the way, prominent Jews could leave Germany too. By your idiotic logic any Jew who managed to leave Germany is proof that there was not intimidation against the Jews







          ..
          There was no intimidation on March 23 19333 . Who was intimidated ?
          The fact that the 81 SPD members did not know what could be the consequences if they voted against the Enabling Act,does not mean that they were threatened . There would be intimidation only if people felt intimidated, and the only proof of being intimidated was if the SPD delegates said yes to the Enabling Law .An empty threat is not a threat .
          Last edited by ljadw; 16 Dec 19, 11:01.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by ljadw View Post

            There was no intimidation on March 23 19333 . Who was intimidated ?
            The fact that the 81 SPD members did not know what could be the consequences if they voted against the Enabling Act,does not mean that they were threatened . There would be intimidation only if people felt intimidated, and the only proof of being intimidated was if the SPD delegates said yes to the Enabling Law .An empty threat is not a threat .
            Repeating claims do not win arguments

            Sources and logic too.


            Intimidation applies to every person at the time in the Reichstag, including those who were not Nazis or SPD members and voted to pass the Enabling Act which made THEM in the Reichstag completely irrelevant! I noticed by the way that you did not want t insist that letting people leave Germany was a sign of no intimidation after I reminded you that prominent Jews were also able to leave Germany.

            Come back with something new to say to address the sources I posted!
            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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            • #81
              Prominent Jews have nothing to do with the Enabling act .
              The members of the Zentrum had already decided before March 23 to vote for the Enabling Act, thus what happend on March 23 had no influence on their voting behavior that day . The SPD members also were not intimidated,because what happened on March 23 did not influence their voting behavior : they still voted no .The members of the DNVP were also not intimidated : there was no reason to intimidate them,because already before the voting they supported the Enabling Act .
              As thus nobody was intimidated, there was no intimidation .
              Maybe that the Martians were intimidated, but I am not sure .
              Come back when you have a proof that ONE member of the Reichstad planned to vote no, but changed this by voting yes, because he was intimidated .
              The outcome of the voting on March 23 was already decided before March 23, thus there was no intimidation on March 23 .
              The only aim of intimidation the day of the voting would be to force no-voters to become yes-voters . This did not happen , Thus there was no intimidation .

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              • #82
                Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                Prominent Jews have nothing to do with the Enabling act .
                The members of the Zentrum had already decided before March 23 to vote for the Enabling Act, thus what happend on March 23 had no influence on their voting behavior that day . The SPD members also were not intimidated,because what happened on March 23 did not influence their voting behavior : they still voted no .The members of the DNVP were also not intimidated : there was no reason to intimidate them,because already before the voting they supported the Enabling Act .
                As thus nobody was intimidated, there was no intimidation .
                Maybe that the Martians were intimidated, but I am not sure .
                Come back when you have a proof that ONE member of the Reichstad planned to vote no, but changed this by voting yes, because he was intimidated .
                The outcome of the voting on March 23 was already decided before March 23, thus there was no intimidation on March 23 .
                The only aim of intimidation the day of the voting would be to force no-voters to become yes-voters . This did not happen , Thus there was no intimidation .
                I did not say they had to do with the Enacting Act. I said that they had to do with your attempt to argue that just because some SPD members were left to leave Germany, there was no intimidation.

                And I never claimed that intimidation started on the day of the vote. That was the culmination of a process which started much earlier. As I explained (and you dismissed it), the Reighstag fire took place a month earlier and it gave Hilter the opportunity to go after the communists which is the reason why you see communists missing the day of voting the Enabling Act. Hitler just used the incident to argue for emergency powers and the Enabling Act was pushed as another necessary condition to defend the state by giving even more powers to the Chancellor. People who disagreed with a measure that enabled Hitler to defend Germany risked being accused of enabling the communists.

                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by Cambronnne View Post
                  Trump, no doubt, has an enormous ego, but his detractors act is if this trait is unique to him. After 8 years of Obama I wonder how anyone can think Trump's ego is unique.
                  False modesty is the ultimate vanity, but it's less obnoxious and easier to tolerate for others.

                  That's why we teach children manners after all, just with Trump someone didn't bother….

                  The expectation was presumably, that with enough money you don't need manners, in the US apparently that seems to work well enough….

                  Obama, Biden or Hillary
                  No, no, and no, we're talking about *Trump* here, want to talk about Biden, elect HIM as your president, we can talk about him for 4 years then
                  Last edited by Snowygerry; 17 Dec 19, 05:23.
                  Major Atticus Finch - ACW Rainbow Game.

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