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Trump begins to take ownership of impeachment

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  • Trung Si
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    I would add, that like Clinton's case, it will hurt the Democrats in the next election. Worse, it will set precedent for the next time one party wants to pillory the other. It's a case of Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ljadw
    replied
    One must be very stupid to start an impeachment of which one knows it will fail .
    The whole thing proves
    a that the hatred of the Democrats fopr Trump is greater than their intelligence: the Romans already said : quos vult perdere Jupiter dementat prius : the gods make first mad those they want to destroy .
    b that there is a ultra left wing group in the Democratic party who prefers Trump to win than Biden .The impeachment will hurt Biden .Harshly . And it can prevent him from getting the nomination ,which cause mean that an unelectable Democrat as Warren or Sanders would bevome candidate .Or an admirer of Castro as Barbara Lee .
    This also proves that the gods make first mad those they want to destroy .
    Whatever the failure of the impeachment will cause a Democratic civil war . In an election year .
    Nice . Very nice .

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    I've been calling the Democrat line up "The Three Stooges and Seven Dwarves." That is, you have Biden the crazy uncle who everybody hopes won't show up for the family reunion... Sort of like Randy Quade's character in the National Lampoon movies. Then there's the old-school over-the-hill Socialist, Sanders, and of course the utter and complete fraud Warren. Then you have some other "dwarves" and nobody can name all of them.
    Pete Buttigieg might be the "dark horse" which can win the race. Perhaps he is not the strongest favorite, but from what I read, his rise among the top Democrats has been impressive and he seems to be at the top in Iowa (IIRC). A few early victories develop their own momentum.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Freebird View Post

    There isn't really another electable candidate in the top tier
    I've been calling the Democrat line up "The Three Stooges and Seven Dwarves." That is, you have Biden the crazy uncle who everybody hopes won't show up for the family reunion... Sort of like Randy Quade's character in the National Lampoon movies. Then there's the old-school over-the-hill Socialist, Sanders, and of course the utter and complete fraud Warren. Then you have some other "dwarves" and nobody can name all of them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Freebird
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post


    I think if he were the Democrat nominee the debates would be cringe worthy because Biden is going to say some stupid stuff. He has a history of it and seemingly can't help himself.
    There isn't really another electable candidate in the top tier

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    I do not think his comment was about Joe Biden. If past history is used as a guide, Biden is wayyyy cleaner than Trump. You like it or not, Joe Biden has a profile that gives him a big advantage over Trump based on how he has conducted himself as a family man and as a politician with decades of experience and way less controversies in contrast to the short and full of mud political career of the current president.. People can see when pigs are desperate for dragging a person in the mud to make him look like them.
    Biden's biggest problem, whoever he faces, is that he's just not that bright. He's been caught repeatedly plagiarizing both in college and as a politician. Not that big a deal. But, overall, he's just not that sharp a guy. I suppose he's nice enough if you can look past his fondling women and sniffing their hair...

    I think if he were the Democrat nominee the debates would be cringe worthy because Biden is going to say some stupid stuff. He has a history of it and seemingly can't help himself.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Freebird View Post

    It gets more interesting.

    Biden and his apologists at the CorruptNewsNetwork have vehemently insisted that he knew nothing about Hunter's work at Burisma.
    I wonder what VP Biden's former staff will say? I wonder what the paper trail will say?
    Expect subpoenas for all of them.

    My guess is that Obama & Biden were well aware of it
    I do not think his comment was about Joe Biden. If past history is used as a guide, Biden is wayyyy cleaner than Trump. You like it or not, Joe Biden has a profile that gives him a big advantage over Trump based on how he has conducted himself as a family man and as a politician with decades of experience and way less controversies in contrast to the short and full of mud political career of the current president.. People can see when pigs are desperate for dragging a person in the mud to make him look like them.
    Last edited by pamak; 06 Dec 19, 00:46.

    Leave a comment:


  • Freebird
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    .
    While I'm not sure who will have more dirt turned up when the shovel is applied, if past history is any indicator, it's going to be the Democrats.

    This is going to get uglier and the Democrats won't avoid rolling in the mud with Trump who obviously relishes the opportunity to do so.
    It gets more interesting.

    Biden and his apologists at the CorruptNewsNetwork have vehemently insisted that he knew nothing about Hunter's work at Burisma.
    I wonder what VP Biden's former staff will say? I wonder what the paper trail will say?
    Expect subpoenas for all of them.

    My guess is that Obama & Biden were well aware of it

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by Salinator View Post
    If pushing impeachment is the hill that Pelosi wants to die on, it may inflame all the silent Trump-supporters and fence-sitters and bite the Dems in the ass in November 2020.
    According to what I hear from Trump's supporters here, even before the impeachment, Trump had enough support to win the next election. So, according to their theory, if Trump wins in 2020, it will be despite the impeachment and not because of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • pamak
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    The answer is no, not really. The only persons that can refuse to honor a subpoena are those that are appointed on the executive branch due to separation of powers and executive privilege. A Congressman can't ignore a subpoena from Congress. Private persons can refuse to testify but must show up (eg., Lois Learner).

    Government employees must show up and must testify as this is part of their employment contract.

    So, the Republicans could call Schiff, Pelosi, et. al., to testify. They might allow Trump to do it in his own defense too. The whistleblower's only out would be to resign and take the Fifth.

    As for what the Senate will do... I think the harder the Democrats push this, and the less favorable it is to the public, or the more obvious their case is built on the quicksand of hearsay and opinion, the more likely it is they will hold a trial just to trot out the opposing side and position in full. If-- and it's a quirky if-- the Republicans were to do so and they bring in a bunch of witnesses and others to testify and those people make a laughing stock of the Democrat charges, the Democrats lose big time.
    Worse, the Republicans can easily make their trial look far more fair by allowing the Democrats to call whoever they want with few or no restrictions. After all, who can they call after the House investigation that hasn't been called?

    The other option is the Republicans move to dismiss immediately. The danger there is it will go down as purely partisan too. They could move to censure the President (a largely meaningless political move) and that gives them a way out saying the charges are serious but don't rise to impeachable.

    Whatever the outcome, Trump isn't going to be turned out of office and he will I can almost guarantee, will wear the whole thing like a badge of honor as he campaigns.
    The question is not that easy to answer. One needs to see the Senate rules and how they apply to members of the other chamber's different committees (and each committee has its own rules apparently)

    Here is a link

    https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44247.pdf

    Knock yourself out trying to find the answer, and when you do, post the related quotes here for discussion.


    Anyway, even if we assume that one chamber can make a chairman from the opposite chamber come and testify, I doubt that anybody will have the stomach to do it considering that the chairman in the other chamber can play the same game. It is like the MAD concept during the cold war, lolol

    Leave a comment:


  • Salinator
    replied
    If pushing impeachment is the hill that Pelosi wants to die on, it may inflame all the silent Trump-supporters and fence-sitters and bite the Dems in the ass in November 2020.

    Leave a comment:


  • T. A. Gardner
    replied
    Originally posted by Reimnitz View Post
    Can Rep Adam Schiff or anyone else refuse to testify and ignore the subpoena?
    The answer is no, not really. The only persons that can refuse to honor a subpoena are those that are appointed on the executive branch due to separation of powers and executive privilege. A Congressman can't ignore a subpoena from Congress. Private persons can refuse to testify but must show up (eg., Lois Learner).

    Government employees must show up and must testify as this is part of their employment contract.

    So, the Republicans could call Schiff, Pelosi, et. al., to testify. They might allow Trump to do it in his own defense too. The whistleblower's only out would be to resign and take the Fifth.

    As for what the Senate will do... I think the harder the Democrats push this, and the less favorable it is to the public, or the more obvious their case is built on the quicksand of hearsay and opinion, the more likely it is they will hold a trial just to trot out the opposing side and position in full. If-- and it's a quirky if-- the Republicans were to do so and they bring in a bunch of witnesses and others to testify and those people make a laughing stock of the Democrat charges, the Democrats lose big time.
    Worse, the Republicans can easily make their trial look far more fair by allowing the Democrats to call whoever they want with few or no restrictions. After all, who can they call after the House investigation that hasn't been called?

    The other option is the Republicans move to dismiss immediately. The danger there is it will go down as purely partisan too. They could move to censure the President (a largely meaningless political move) and that gives them a way out saying the charges are serious but don't rise to impeachable.

    Whatever the outcome, Trump isn't going to be turned out of office and he will I can almost guarantee, will wear the whole thing like a badge of honor as he campaigns.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bwaha
    replied
    I can't see the dems taking a bow over the impeachment, their base are too inflamed to let this pass.

    Leave a comment:


  • marktwain
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

    And if the House impeaches him, it goes to the Senate for a trial. Everything I proposed above has a real chance of occurring if it does. How's that going to play out?
    What we may see is the impeachment dropped in favor of a motion of censure being passed. The Republican dominated senate may not want to be seen as hanging in the President's wind, given their history as a legislative , independent foro the executive, decision making body.

    Leave a comment:


  • Reimnitz
    replied
    Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
    I saw it coming and it's bad news for the Democrats. Trump is taking ownership of the impeachment. He's making it his issue. Worse, when it goes to the Senate for trial, which is looking likely, the Republicans will control the floor. It will be the Democrat's turn in the box and it's not looking good.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

    Let's say Trump does subpoena Joe Biden to testify. How's that going to look? Or, he forces Adam Schiff to testify right after subpoenaing and making the whistleblower testify? Can you imagine Pelosi stammering her way through testimony if called? It certainly looks as if John Kerry, Joe Biden, and Hunter Biden will all get a turn in the box and be called to testify. Linsey Graham has already started requesting documents from State and such about Kerry and Biden's role in Ukraine.
    While I'm not sure who will have more dirt turned up when the shovel is applied, if past history is any indicator, it's going to be the Democrats.

    This is going to get uglier and the Democrats won't avoid rolling in the mud with Trump who obviously relishes the opportunity to do so.

    Can Rep Adam Schiff or anyone else refuse to testify and ignore the subpoena?


    Leave a comment:

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