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  • Well, no Suprise here

    No bombshell, no big surprise, but Adam Schiff the little man with googly eyes released his 'report' on Trump impeachment. I'd say it's underwhelming. But, the faithful and true believers are rarely if ever deterred in their quest for their particular brand of justice.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

    Worse, the report spends almost 90% of its length trying to argue for an obstruction of justice charge rather than any specific "high crime or misdemeanor."

    The report’s authors spent more than 90 pages on the accusation that the president illegally tried to obstruct the congressional inquiry,
    You can see how weak it is in the WaPo's "5 takeaways..."

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartanntp

    I can't see a partisan report like this one changing any minds on impeachment.

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/impeachment-polls/

    If anything, Schiff is heading the Democrats to a train wreck. I think it possible that Jerry Nadler will be the voice of reason on this and go against impeachment settling for possibly a contempt of Congress call or maybe a censure at most. But, we will see.

    It isn't helping the Democrats for 2020 that Black Friday and Cyber Monday had particularly good sales numbers this year. That's indicative of a strong economy in one small way and in one that argues that the average guy isn't going to be inclined to get rid of what's working economically for him.



  • #2
    You really should pay attention...

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/03/polit...nes/index.html

    Armed with never-before-seen phone records, Democrats on Tuesday accused President Donald Trump's allies of coordinating with a conservative journalist to peddle "false narratives" about Trump's opponents as part of his multi-pronged pressure campaign on Ukraine.


    The House Intelligence Committee's impeachment report -- which was made public Tuesday -- says the committee's top Repubican, Rep. Devin Nunes of California, was linked to that effort.

    The records, according to Intelligence Committee member Rep. Eric Swalwell, were subpoenaed from third-parties.

    "Mr. Solomon was not working alone," the report said of conservative journalist John Solomon's articles throughout 2019 that spread Trump-backed conspiracies about Ukraine. "As further described below, there was a coordinated effort by associates of President Trump to push these false narratives publicly, as evidenced by public statements, phone records, and contractual agreements."
    The phone records, which are labeled in the report's endnotes as coming from AT&T, show a web of communications between Solomon, Trump personal attorney Rudy Giuliani, Ukrainian American businessman Lev Parnas, Nunes and the White House's budget office. CNN is owned by AT&T.
    "Like all companies, we are required by law to provide information to government and law enforcement agencies. In all cases, we ensure that requests for assistance are valid and that we act in compliance with the law," said Jim Greer, a spokesman for AT&T.
    Many of these calls occurred in April, according to the Democratic report, the same time Solomon pumped out columns in The Hill. The stories were filled with discredited conspiracy theories about then-US Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch and former Vice President Joe Biden, whose son was on the board of a prominent Ukrainian energy company.

    We are not now that strength which in old days
    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

    Comment


    • #3
      It makes no difference. My bet is the polls don't move an inch in the next week on this. That leaves the Democrats short of even a public majority wanting impeachment and outside their own party little support for it.

      Sure, you can still focus on "new" evidence that really changes nothing if you want, but the big picture is the Democrats, at this point, are going it alone. They have no public mandate, no wide public support, and are looking at a party-line vote where even some of their own party may defect to save their chances of reelection in 2020.

      Comment


      • #4
        It makes a world of difference as it points out the corruption of the Trump administration as well as those who support it.

        https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

        House Democrats on Tuesday asserted that President Trump abused his power by pressuring Ukraine to help him in the 2020 presidential election, releasing a 300-page impeachment report that found that Mr. Trump “placed his own personal and political interests above the national interests of the United States.”

        The report by Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee was a sweeping indictment of the president’s behavior, concluding that his actions sought to undermine American democracy and endangered national security. They left it to another committee to decide whether to formally recommend Mr. Trump’s impeachment and removal, but the report laid out in searing fashion what are all but certain to be the grounds on which the House moves to impeach the president.

        “The founding fathers prescribed a remedy for a chief executive who places his personal interests above those of the country: impeachment,” it said.

        The report’s release set in motion the next phase in the impeachment of Mr. Trump, accelerating a constitutional clash that has happened only three times in the nation’s history. Both parties are poised for a fierce, partisan debate in the House Judiciary Committee over whether to charge the president with high crimes and misdemeanors, the Constitution’s threshold for removal, and a likely partisan vote by the House to do so before Christmas.

        The lengthy document contained few new revelations, and instead outlined more than two months of public and private testimony from diplomats and other administration officials. They described a campaign by the president and his allies to pressure Ukraine to announce investigations of former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and other Democrats, while withholding nearly $400 million in military assistance and a White House meeting for Ukraine’s president.
        We are not now that strength which in old days
        Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
        Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
        To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

        Comment


        • #5
          The report by Democrats on the House Intelligence Committee was a sweeping indictment of the president’s behavior,
          You said it yourself. This is a one-party, impeachment without popular mandate and no opposition support whatsoever. That is unprecedented in US history. Successful impeachments, as well as ones seen as necessary, have had popular support and bipartisan agreement. Here, the Democrats can't even get their own party onboard with doing it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Massena View Post
            Ukraine to help him in the 2020 presidential election,
            How could the Ukraine help Trump in the 2020 election?

            "I don't discuss sitting presidents," Mattis tells NPR in an interview. "I believe that you owe a period of quiet."

            Comment


            • #7
              What's going to help Trump is the totally partisan appearance of the whole impeachment process this time.

              We know two Democrats voted against even the investigation and the Democrats had zero Republican support. While we don't know what the final vote will be the short odds are that zero Republicans will vote to impeach Trump and somewhere between 10 and 20 Democrats will vote against it.

              https://thehill.com/policy/national-...or-impeachment

              Right now the Democrats don't have popular public support for impeachment according to most polling with the public being around 47 to 49% onboard with it, an of that number the overwhelming majority are Democrats. Among Republican voters, there's little support for impeachment and about a third or so of independents are for it.

              I see little or nothing on the horizon to change any of that.

              Nadler wants to move forward at blindingly fast speed for Washington now. If Nadler moves forward like Schiff and largely cuts Republicans out of the process, expect support to falter further.

              https://www.dailywire.com/news/deadl...source=twitter

              That extension may be a last-ditch effort to salvage the impeachment inquiry from appearing as the partisan “witch hunt” the President claims it is. Even the New York Times, hardly a fan of President Trump, admitted last week that Schiff had failed to prove his point...
              If even the NYT and WaPo have doubts, the whole process is in serious trouble.

              Worse, if the Democrats do impeach Trump, it goes to the Senate for a trial. There, the tables are turned and the Republicans will control the process. Expect all the witnesses the House Republicans wanted to top the list of those called to testify. I'd also expect witnesses who the Republicans see as weak but they weren't allowed to fully question to be called back for a grilling.
              All of that isn't going to go down well with the public, particularly if Senate Democrats start pulling antics like they did during the Clinton impeachment.

              I don't think this will end well for Democrats.


              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post
                It makes no difference. My bet is the polls don't move an inch in the next week on this. That leaves the Democrats short of even a public majority wanting impeachment and outside their own party little support for it.
                Polls have been moving more than an inch the past couple years. Current trends will continue to go blue.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by T. A. Gardner View Post

                  You said it yourself. This is a one-party, impeachment without popular mandate and no opposition support whatsoever.
                  Someone had to do it. You have to understand where the GOP party is today. Trump could have done something seriously illegal and the republicans would still ignore it. They've gone rogue.

                  You can't really have a bi-partisan anything these days with the GOP. All integrity is gone.

                  Republicans are putting party above country. Thankfully we have a constitution that allows checks and balances.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    And legislation forwarded to the Senate, which I believe is substantial in the numbers passed and forwarded, is being held up by McConnell because Trump doesn't like it. That is partisan politics, and not in the national interest.

                    The Republican Party no longer exists, and they have sacrificed whatever principles they may have had on the altar of Trumpism, which in itself is corrupt.

                    Trump has violated the Constitution and that is why impeachment is looming. And it is a self-inflicted wound.
                    We are not now that strength which in old days
                    Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                    Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                    To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post

                      Someone had to do it. You have to understand where the GOP party is today.

                      You can't really have a bi-partisan anything these days with the GOP. All integrity is gone.

                      Republicans are putting party above country. Thankfully we have a constitution that allows checks and balances.
                      I agree completely with your statement. Now, just change the terms "GOP" and "republicans" to "Democratic Party" and "democrats" and your statement would be actually true.
                      Last edited by Jose50; 04 Dec 19, 09:35.
                      ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                      IN MARE IN COELO

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nichols View Post

                        How could the Ukraine help Trump in the 2020 election?

                        You aren't supposed to consider the logic of the claim.


                        All that matters is coming up with a way to stop trump from winning again, regardless of election results.
                        Avatar is General Gerard, courtesy of Zouave.

                        Churchill to Chamberlain: you had a choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor, and you will have war.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Jose50 View Post

                          I agree completely with your statement. Now, just change the terms "GOP" and "republicans" to "Democratic Party" and "democrats" and your statement would be actually true.
                          Difference between us is that I don't trust Hannity telling me anything.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by inevtiab1e View Post
                            Difference between us is that I don't trust Hannity telling me anything.
                            ...me either. I just look for the obvious.
                            ARRRR! International Talk Like A Pirate Day - September 19th
                            IN MARE IN COELO

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...cid=spartandhp

                              When Corey Lewandowski showed up to testify this summer during an early impeachment hearing, the former Trump campaign manager had two top White House lawyers hovering over his shoulder the whole time. They whispered in his lawyer’s ear. They strategized with Republicans during breaks. In short, the White House was omnipresent.

                              But on Wednesday, the White House is expected to be a complete no-show at the House Judiciary Committee’s biggest impeachment hearing yet — no attorney to represent President Donald Trump’s interests, not even a staffer to sit in the audience.

                              The approach is part of the Trump administration’s strategy for the final stages of the House impeachment process, according to half a dozen people familiar with the situation: refuse to engage unless certain demands are met, blast Democrats from the outside in the meantime and wait for a friendlier Senate landscape.

                              Trump’s legal and political aides argue that participating in the hearings — as the Judiciary Committee has invited the White House to do — would only legitimize the process, even as it leaves the door open to negotiating with Democrats. And it’s a tactic, they say, that is protecting future presidents from congressional overreach.

                              “Taking part in a sham, partisan House process doesn’t make much sense from a legal or messaging standpoint,” said Steve Cortes, a member of the president’s reelection committee.

                              After weeks of frustration, Trump has been placated by House Republicans’ increasingly pugilistic defenses of his behavior in hearings and on television, giving him greater comfort that he can rely on surrogates to punch back during the hearings.
                              We are not now that strength which in old days
                              Moved earth and heaven; that which we are we are; One equal temper of heroic hearts
                              Made weak by time and fate but strong in will
                              To strive to seek to find and not to yield.

                              Comment

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