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Devin Nunes Met with Ex-Ukrainian Official to get dirt on Biden

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  • #76
    Originally posted by pamak View Post

    Originally posted by American87 View Post
    Yes, the prosecutor was supposedly corrupt. But Biden could have targeted any corrupt prosecutor. He chose the one that was investigated his son. and he tied political aid to firing the proesefutor. It should be investigated.

    Actually Obama and the rest of the western world (not Biden) targeted the TOP prosecutor which is very reasonable and which was not controversial at the time. It became controversial only while the 2020 election was approaching. And no the prosecutor at the time was not investigating Hunter or Burisma.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosec...ral_of_Ukraine

    The Prosecutor General of Ukraine (also Attorney General of Ukraine, Ukrainian: Генеральний прокурор України) heads the system of official prosecution in courts known as the Office of the Prosecutor General of Ukraine (Ukrainian: Генеральна прокуратура України). The term of authority of the Prosecutor is six years.[3] She or he is appointed and dismissed by the president with parliamentary consent.[
    13 February 11, 2015[15] — March 29, 2016[16](2) Viktor Shokin
    Biden could have targeted any corrupt prosecutor in the world. He coud have targeted corrupt presidents, or whatever titles are given to magistrates across the globe. He chose a prosecutor that was looking into his son's company.

    The corrupt prosecutor, assuming he was undoubtedly corrupt, was investigating Burisma. Their was an open investigation into the company, and the investigaor said he was actively pursuing it when he was fired. You can doubt his words, but it's enough to investigate. It's at least enough for Trump to call Zelinsky and ask for information that only the Ukrainians would have access to.
    "It is a fine fox chase, my boys"

    "It is well that war is so terrible-we would grow too fond of it"

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    • #77
      Originally posted by American87 View Post

      Biden could have targeted any corrupt prosecutor in the world. He coud have targeted corrupt presidents, or whatever titles are given to magistrates across the globe. He chose a prosecutor that was looking into his son's company.

      The corrupt prosecutor, assuming he was undoubtedly corrupt, was investigating Burisma. Their was an open investigation into the company, and the investigaor said he was actively pursuing it when he was fired. You can doubt his words, but it's enough to investigate. It's at least enough for Trump to call Zelinsky and ask for information that only the Ukrainians would have access to.
      Ukraine was at the center of the US policy because of the money it received from the west (and the US) and the confrontation with Russia as a result of Ukraine's attempt to take steps towards the west. And Biden did not choose anything. Obama made the choices which included the people who would push the US policy in Ukraine.

      The prosecutor was not investigating Burisma at the time according to his deputy who resigned in 2016 condemning corruption within his department. If Trump has "enough" information to justify a criminal investigation he could call the DOJ to cooperate with the Ukrainians . He did not


      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...oj/2441121001/



      "The president has not spoken with the attorney general about having Ukraine investigate anything relating to former Vice President Biden or his son," Kupec said. "The president has not asked the attorney general to contact Ukraine – on this or any other matter. The attorney general has not communicated with Ukraine – on this or any other subject. Nor has the attorney general discussed this matter, or anything relating to Ukraine with Rudy Giuliani."
      Last edited by pamak; 25 Nov 19, 20:09.
      My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Massena View Post

        And you have sources that demonstrate this?
        You ask me for proves that in 2014 Joe Biden was not an active politician but was retired ?

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        • #79
          Originally posted by pamak View Post

          Ukraine was at the center of the US policy because of the money it received from the west (and the US) and the confrontation with Russia as a result of Ukraine's attempt to take steps towards the west. And Biden did not choose anything. Obama made the choices which included the people who would push the US policy in Ukraine.

          The prosecutor was not investigating Burisma at the time according to his deputy who resigned in 2016 condemning corruption within his department. If Trump has "enough" information to justify a criminal investigation he could call the DOJ to cooperate with the Ukrainians . He did not


          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...oj/2441121001/



          "The president has not spoken with the attorney general about having Ukraine investigate anything relating to former Vice President Biden or his son," Kupec said. "The president has not asked the attorney general to contact Ukraine – on this or any other matter. The attorney general has not communicated with Ukraine – on this or any other subject. Nor has the attorney general discussed this matter, or anything relating to Ukraine with Rudy Giuliani."
          If the prosecutor was not investigating Burisma, why had the owner of Burisma fled to Russia and why did Burisma pay $ 7 million additional taxes ?
          Zlochevsky, who lives in Monaco,is still investigated : Euters 2019 11 20 :
          ''Ukraine widens probe against Burisma founder to embezzlement of state funds . ''
          If Trump had asked DOJ to cooperate with the Ukrainians ( implying that the Ukrainians would accept an interference in their domestic affairs ) the Democrats would claim that Trump used the FBI against political opponents . Besides, the FBI would leak it .

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          • #80
            Originally posted by pamak View Post

            Not only he did not provide evidence to support his claim, he actually provided evidence that contradicted him.
            Supposedly, the founder of Burisma hired Hunter to protect himself from the Ukrainian prosecutors but he fled Ukraine. Apparently, if that was his plan it did not work...
            Why was Zlochevsky, an Ukrainian mafia boss, giving the son of the US VP $ 2.4 million ? Not because of his knowledge,there were countless people with more knowledge, but because he was the son of the US VP.

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            • #81
              If Al Capone had hired the son of the mayor of Chicago as his legal advisor for a lot of money, every one would know that he had hired the mayor of Chicago .

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                Why was Zlochevsky, an Ukrainian mafia boss, giving the son of the US VP $ 2.4 million ? Not because of his knowledge,there were countless people with more knowledge, but because he was the son of the US VP.
                Did not you say that the mafia boss has to flee Ukraine? So, if his expectation was that Hunter would save him from the Ukrainian probes, it did not work. In reality, you do not know what he expected from Hunter since Burisma has business in Europe and Mexico and has invested n=in the US too as I showed. And by the way, hiring somebody to open doors is not illegal. Finally, the mafia boss is your characterization which is not based on court decisions either in Ukraine or abroad (UK). If rumors are sufficient for such claim then you should admit that his reputation of circumventing the law is similar to Trump's. So, if you want to label people be at least consistent
                My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                Comment


                • #83
                  Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                  If the prosecutor was not investigating Burisma, why had the owner of Burisma fled to Russia and why did Burisma pay $ 7 million additional taxes ?
                  Zlochevsky, who lives in Monaco,is still investigated : Euters 2019 11 20 :
                  ''Ukraine widens probe against Burisma founder to embezzlement of state funds . ''
                  If Trump had asked DOJ to cooperate with the Ukrainians ( implying that the Ukrainians would accept an interference in their domestic affairs ) the Democrats would claim that Trump used the FBI against political opponents . Besides, the FBI would leak it .
                  Again, you conflate the investigation of Burisma with the investigation of the owner. A corporation has a legal identity which is separate from that of the founder. Trump also is still investigated. The UK investigation did not bring any charges.

                  Risk of leaks exist in any agency and the current developments proved it.. The fact is that there would not be a need to have a public announcement of a cooperation between the DOJ and Ukrainians on the Burisma investigation. Heck, Barr could have started the process Then, if there were good evidence to justify the opening of the investigation against Biden in particular, it could happen after the election and it would not matter what the Democrats would say. But if Barr started cooperated with Ukrainians based on no evidence, then obviously this would come back to bite him and Trump.
                  My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                  Comment


                  • #84
                    Why doesn't Trump get his top crime investigation team to see what's going on with Nunes. He said his call with Zelensky was about rooting out corruption and not about getting dirt on political opponents so here's his chance to prove it



                    Nevermind, it looks like they'll be busy on other matters for a while.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by pamak View Post

                      Did not you say that the mafia boss has to flee Ukraine? So, if his expectation was that Hunter would save him from the Ukrainian probes, it did not work. In reality, you do not know what he expected from Hunter since Burisma has business in Europe and Mexico and has invested n=in the US too as I showed. And by the way, hiring somebody to open doors is not illegal. Finally, the mafia boss is your characterization which is not based on court decisions either in Ukraine or abroad (UK). If rumors are sufficient for such claim then you should admit that his reputation of circumventing the law is similar to Trump's. So, if you want to label people be at least consistent
                      Zlochevsky fled Ukraine, Burisma not , and everyone expected that Burisma would be nationalised,or given to friends of the corrupt Poroschenko . This did not happen . Why ? The answer is obvious : because Zlochevsky paid bribe money to the son of the US VP who was the viceroy of Ukraine .
                      Zlochevsky, former minister, is NOW being investigated.
                      Reuters November 20 2019 : Ukraine widens probe against Burisma founder to embezzlement of state funds .

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Canuckster View Post
                        Why doesn't Trump get his top crime investigation team to see what's going on with Nunes. He said his call with Zelensky was about rooting out corruption and not about getting dirt on political opponents so here's his chance to prove it



                        Nevermind, it looks like they'll be busy on other matters for a while.
                        FBI has no authority in Ukraine which is not a colony of the US .

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by ljadw View Post

                          FBI has no authority in Ukraine which is not a colony of the US .
                          Which one of those four is with the FBI?

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by ljadw View Post
                            Zlochevsky fled Ukraine, Burisma not , and everyone expected that Burisma would be nationalised,or given to friends of the corrupt Poroschenko . This did not happen . Why ? The answer is obvious : because Zlochevsky paid bribe money to the son of the US VP who was the viceroy of Ukraine .
                            Zlochevsky, former minister, is NOW being investigated.
                            Reuters November 20 2019 : Ukraine widens probe against Burisma founder to embezzlement of state funds .
                            Your theories do not hold since at the time we did not see any movement of nationalizing the companies of any oligarch In Ukraine. Nor does it make sense that Zlochevsky could convince the prosecutors through Biden's hiring not to investigate Burisma but could not convince them not to investigate him.Plus, Burisma's investigation was on hold at the time.


                            Shokin's claims are not credible and everybody saw him as a corrupt prosecutor, including the diplomats who were chosen by Trump and testified under oath . Plus, even if there was an active investigation, this still does not make the presence of Hunter (lawyer) in the board of directors as head of the legal affairs illegal or even suspicious when Shokin and his deputies had a reputation of extorting companies by threatening them with investigations in order to get bribes. From wiki:

                            In one notorious case, two of Shokin's prosecutors were caught with stashes of diamonds, cash and valuables in their homes, likely indicating bribery

                            The suspicious activities of crooks comes when they act AGAINST the established norms and understanding as was the case with Giuliani and his unofficial interventions which contradicted the official stance of the US and the opinion of all diplomats (and the Pentagon) at the time. By contrast, Joe Biden acted as it was expected by everybody at the time and his conduct passed without anybody noticing it up until Trump decided to use it for his political benefit in the 2020 election.

                            Trump NOW is also investigated and in fact he has already been found guilty in the case of his charity foundation. Choose the same standards for everybody. If you want to call someone a " mafia boss" based on apparent illegal conduct even though there is not yet any court decision in Ukraine or the west, then you should at least apply this label to Trump who has already been found guilty in courts. And the UK also had a probe against Zlochevsky and it did not end up with anything.
                            Last edited by pamak; 26 Nov 19, 14:41.
                            My most dangerous mission: I landed in the middle of an enemy tank battalion and I immediately, started spraying bullets killing everybody around me having fun up until my computer froze...

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Why is Zlochevsky living in exil in Monaco ?

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by pamak View Post


                                The suspicious activities of crooks comes when they act AGAINST the established norms and understanding as was the case with Giuliani and his unofficial interventions which contradicted the official stance of the US and the opinion of all diplomats (and the Pentagon) at the time. By contrast, Joe Biden acted as it was expected by everybody at the time and his conduct passed without anybody noticing it up until Trump decided to use it for his political benefit in the 2020 election.

                                .
                                The official stance of the US is the stance of the potus, it is determined by the potus, not by state or Pentagon who are only executants but who determine nothing .
                                And all presidents use unofficial agents in their foreign policy : you can't have an efficient foreign policy if it is done publicly by ambassadors,by state .Ambassadors are the last persons to be involved in foreign policy . Foreign policy is determined by the White House and executed by secret messengers of the president .
                                When Bryan and Tillerson disagreed with the potus, they were fired .
                                The potus is the head of the executive branch, state is a part of the executive branch, the president is his own secretary of state .
                                Established norms in foreign policy do not exist .

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